Free Agents and Trade Thread - Training camp edition

[Kiwi]

Which is what I think they'll do - either via free agency or trade aim for a minute munching safe guy for that right side instead of a clear top pairing guy (since they're very hard to acquire)

Muzzin Holl can do a job in a "shutdown" role, if we need that 2nd pair level guy for Rielly I'm starting to wonder if Vatanen might be a cheap short term option

He's not a defense first guy but he does skate, move the puck, play decent defense, suit our play style and may be going cheap after a couple of injuries recently

I'm thinking he may be this year's Gardiner

8th overall gets us hopefully a piece for down the road, Joker could fit into the top 4 for us sooner rather than later.

Virtanen is a good 3rd line winger that is meaner than Kapanen, actually good defensive metrics too.

Rielly-Pietrangelo
Muzzin-Joker.

You haven't seen a better top 4 in 15-20 years

We don't need another big name high dollar contract imo, we need to sort out our depth scoring and to make intelligent cost effective additions to the back end

With the cap the way it is I think this year is a good one to wait a day or two them start making additions through UFA and selling high on some of our depth forwards

I'm not afraid of trading Nylander or Marner but I would be extremely careful about doing something that major

 

[WTFMAN99]

Muzzin Holl can do a job in a "shutdown" role, if we need that 2nd pair level guy for Rielly I'm starting to wonder if Vatanen might be a cheap short term option

He's not a defense first guy but he does skate, move the puck, play decent defense, suit our play style and may be going cheap after a couple of injuries recently

I'm thinking he may be this year's Gardiner



We don't need another big name high dollar contract imo, we need to sort out our depth scoring and to make intelligent cost effective additions to the back end

With the cap the way it is I think this year is a good one to wait a day or two them start making additions through UFA and selling high on some of our depth forwards

I'm not afraid of trading Nylander or Marner but I would be extremely careful about doing something that major

I'm different. Pietrangelo is someone I move mountains for, you upgrade your #1 defenseman over Rielly.

Imagine late in a game being able to send Muzzin-Pietrangelo over the boards? Fantastic.

Sandin and Joker gaining good experience behind them.

 

[Kiwi]

I'm different. Pietrangelo is someone I move mountains for, you upgrade your #1 defenseman over Rielly.

Imagine late in a game being able to send Muzzin-Pietrangelo over the boards? Fantastic.

Sandin and Joker gaining good experience behind them.

We need to add cheap but complementary players and to diversify the lineup rather than continuing to add huge lineup thinning contracts

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Muzzin Holl can do a job in a "shutdown" role, if we need that 2nd pair level guy for Rielly I'm starting to wonder if Vatanen might be a cheap short term option

He's not a defense first guy but he does skate, move the puck, play decent defense, suit our play style and may be going cheap after a couple of injuries recently

I'm thinking he may be this year's Gardiner

Severson would be a good fit depending on price and how well they think he can do on a better team. He has not done as well on weaker New Jersey teams or in a more defensive top 4 role, but he would be a guy who can cheaply complement Rielly as a top 4 defenseman and provide enough offense to provide another element that way.

In terms of UFAs outside of Pietrangelo, a healthy Tanev is probably our best bet. Local guy, solid defensively and may be willing to come here for a reasonable contract. Hamonic may be another option as well, but he has his fair share of injuries. After that, you have Vatanen and Brodie who are not as ideal in terms of fit, but skill wise are solid options. Then you have Gudas, Braun, and DeMelo who are likely not going to be much of an upgrade over a Ceci when it comes to playing against top pairing competition, but would be solid bottom pairing or #4 additions for teams.

There are options, but we will see which ones will be available. Last year, it was slim pickings and we went for a guy more in the Vatanen/Brodie mould in Barrie (top 4 skill, but not exactly what we were missing on the back end).

 

[Kiwi]

Severson would be a good fit depending on price and how well they think he can do on a better team. He has not done as well on weaker New Jersey teams or in a more defensive top 4 role, but he would be a guy who can cheaply complement Rielly as a top 4 defenseman and provide enough offense to provide another element that way.

In terms of UFAs outside of Pietrangelo, a healthy Tanev is probably our best bet. Local guy, solid defensively and may be willing to come here for a reasonable contract. Hamonic may be another option as well, but he has his fair share of injuries. After that, you have Vatanen and Brodie who are not as ideal in terms of fit, but skill wise are solid options. Then you have Gudas, Braun, and DeMelo who are likely not going to be much of an upgrade over a Ceci when it comes to playing against top pairing competition, but would be solid bottom pairing or #4 additions for teams.

There are options, but we will see which ones will be available. Last year, it was slim pickings and we went for a guy more in the Vatanen/Brodie mould in Barrie (top 4 skill, but not exactly what we were missing on the back end).

Barrie had some serious red flags before he ever got here and I think both Vatanen and Brodie would be a better fit than him, for all the talk of puck moving about Barrie he was always extremely shot happy and PP dependant

I don't think either of those other guys are that

 

[WTFMAN99]

We need to add cheap but complementary players and to diversify the lineup rather than continuing to add huge lineup thinning contracts

You can do both. You could probably add an awesome vet like Perry in the off-season for 700-800k. Cup winning experience, plays a chippy game. Just 1 guy off the top of my head but we can add good value guys for cheap and still add Pietrangelo.

 

[Dreakmur]

Severson would be a good fit depending on price and how well they think he can do on a better team. He has not done as well on weaker New Jersey teams or in a more defensive top 4 role, but he would be a guy who can cheaply complement Rielly as a top 4 defenseman and provide enough offense to provide another element that way.

Severson would be a good get, but is there a trade that makes sense? I doubt one of our secondary wingers would be enough, so I think you're looking at Nylander as the main piece. New Jersey adds, but what else to they have? Myles Wood is the kind of bottom 6 winger we need, though the contract is a tad high.

Damon Severson and Myles Wood combine for a cap hit of 6,916,666, so it's prety cap neutral for both teams.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Barrie had some serious red flags before he ever got here and I think both Vatanen and Brodie would be a better fit than him, for all the talk of puck moving about Barrie he was always extremely shot happy and PP dependant

I don't think either of those other guys are that

Brodie and Vatanen certainly have more of a defensive game, but also much less of an offensive game and occasionally have the same kind of issues that people constantly bring up with the Leafs defense (defending against the cycle and in tight areas, defensive coverage, etc.).

For the right deal, it is a great move. However, the same set of criticisms will likely exist as with the Kadri deal if they are unable to perfectly live up to the lofty standards placed before them, or if they show they are not the ideal fit like Barrie. It is certainly more likely for that to happen to them than a guy like Hamonic or Tanev, but less likely than a Barrie.

 

[Cor]

Not much new in the 31 Thoughts.

- Said the Leafs will listen on all of Johnsson, Kerfoot, Kapanen, Nylander and there’s been rumours of Marner as well.

- a decision will need to be made on Andersen

- Dubas was close to adding more “bite” at the deadline other than Clifford. Friedman seemed confident more will be coming in. Speculated Gudas or Boro on the backend as possible targets.

———“: If the Maple Leafs believe this group needs a change, do they also believe their style needs a change? There are whispers Dubas considered some things around the trade deadline that, as one executive said, fans and media “wouldn’t have expected” from him. One of those was Kyle Clifford, who he knows well. But I think there were more.”

- Brought up potential mutual interest between Thornton and the Leafs. Says it might depend on what happens with Jason Spezza.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Severson would be a good get, but is there a trade that makes sense? I doubt one of our secondary wingers would be enough, so I think you're looking at Nylander as the main piece. New Jersey adds, but what else to they have? Myles Wood is the kind of bottom 6 winger we need, though the contract is a tad high.

Damon Severson and Myles Wood combine for a cap hit of 6,916,666, so it's prety cap neutral for both teams.

Severson does not have more value than Muzzin, and Kapanen + Dermott (the main pieces likely going back in a New Jersey trade) have more value than the pieces we gave up in the Muzzin deal. I think it is possible we can give them enough value to even get back one of their later 1sts in this draft in a deal like this.

I don't think Wood makes sense from a cap standpoint, and even if we could fit him in, he is overpaid. We can get Vesey, Leivo or Maroon for half the cap on a prove-it deal for one or two years.

 

[Dreakmur]

- Dubas was close to adding more “bite” at the deadline other than Clifford. Friedman seemed confident more will be coming in. Speculated Gudas or Boro on the backend as possible targets.

We need defensemen who can make a pass. Yeah, toughness is great, but Columbus beat us because we repeatedly failed to make 10 foot break out passes.

 

[Antropovsky]

Not much new in the 31 Thoughts.

- Said the Leafs will listen on all of Johnsson, Kerfoot, Kapanen, Nylander and there’s been rumours of Marner as well.

- a decision will need to be made on Andersen

- Dubas was close to adding more “bite” at the deadline other than Clifford. Friedman seemed confident more will be coming in. Speculated Gudas or Boro on the backend as possible targets.

———“: If the Maple Leafs believe this group needs a change, do they also believe their style needs a change? There are whispers Dubas considered some things around the trade deadline that, as one executive said, fans and media “wouldn’t have expected” from him. One of those was Kyle Clifford, who he knows well. But I think there were more.”

- Brought up potential mutual interest between Thornton and the Leafs. Says it might depend on what happens with Jason Spezza.

At this point Spezza is prob better than Thornton. 37 years vs 42.

Is Dubas going to over react like he did with Marner, and overpay for Clifford in a knee jerk fashion?

 

[Dreakmur]

Severson does not have more value than Muzzin, and Kapanen + Dermott (the main pieces likely going back in a New Jersey trade) have more value than the pieces we gave up in the Muzzin deal. I think it is possible we can give them enough value to even get back one of their later 1sts in this draft in a deal like this.

I don't think Wood makes sense from a cap standpoint, and even if we could fit him in, he is overpaid. We can get Vesey, Leivo or Maroon for half the cap on a prove-it deal for one or two years.

I'm good with Kapanen and Dermott for Severson.

 

[Jozay]

They need some bite in the top 9 and top 4.

Clifford is cool but he's a 4th liner. Need that type of "grit" in meaningful spots.

 

[Menzinger]

At this point Spezza is prob better than Thornton. 37 years vs 42.

Is Dubas going to over react like he did with Marner, and overpay for Clifford in a knee jerk fashion?

I doubt Clifford will have a ton of opportu ities for a pay raise this offseaosn because of the covid uncertainty. If the Leafs want him to stay it'll probably be around what he makes now

 

[Dreakmur]

They need some bite in the top 9 and top 4.

Clifford is cool but he's a 4th liner. Need that type of "grit" in meaningful spots.

You don't need bodycheckers anywhere really. They're nice, and it can be intimidating, but not needed.

What you need is players who aggressively compete for pucks and for ice. You need guys who are willing to get hit to get to the middle of the ice.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Not much new in the 31 Thoughts.

- Said the Leafs will listen on all of Johnsson, Kerfoot, Kapanen, Nylander and there’s been rumours of Marner as well.

- a decision will need to be made on Andersen

- Dubas was close to adding more “bite” at the deadline other than Clifford. Friedman seemed confident more will be coming in. Speculated Gudas or Boro on the backend as possible targets.

———“: If the Maple Leafs believe this group needs a change, do they also believe their style needs a change? There are whispers Dubas considered some things around the trade deadline that, as one executive said, fans and media “wouldn’t have expected” from him. One of those was Kyle Clifford, who he knows well. But I think there were more.”

- Brought up potential mutual interest between Thornton and the Leafs. Says it might depend on what happens with Jason Spezza.

I read the "more defensive bite" part as a potential upcoming thing. Doesn't really make sense for him to go after Gudas when Washington was buying, not selling. Seemed to be more of a UFA possibility than anything. The only thing with Gudas is that he is not a top 4 guy anymore, and we are not lacking in bottom pairing defensemen... So unless Holl is on the list as well.

It also says that the Nylander trade promise was only for the immediate future (i.e. he's not going to trade him right after he agreed to sign him), but not that he was never going to trade him at all. Which makes a lot more sense given the way Nylander agreed to structure the deal in exchange for some extra money. If Nylander wanted max security, he would have spread that money out so there was less of an incentive for Dubas to trade him... Stacking it up front is like an RFA's way of saying he is fine going without an NTC through those years.

At least this should make some people who are sour on Dubas a little bit happier.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

You don't need bodycheckers anywhere really. They're nice, and it can be intimidating, but not needed.

What you need is players who aggressively compete for pucks and for ice. You need guys who are willing to get hit to get to the middle of the ice.

Hyman comes to mind for sure. I feel like Tavares is very underrated in that regard too, and Matthews has definitely improved but he is just so much more valuable in open space that it would be better if you plan on someone else doing it instead of him. It's the Marner, Nylander, etc. of the world that don't really do it.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I doubt Clifford will have a ton of opportu ities for a pay raise this offseaosn because of the covid uncertainty. If the Leafs want him to stay it'll probably be around what he makes now

800k or 1.6 mill. I am not keeping Clifford at 1.6 mill. Probably wouldn't even keep him at 800k. We have 4th liners... If we want more Clifford's (or even better, more Hyman's) in the lineup, it should be in the top 9 as was suggested by Jozay.

Definitely not the first time I mentioned it, and certainly will not be the last, but Jimmy Vesey man.





I believe this is what people want when they say "someone with grit and skill". Seems to be doing all of the things I hear fans say the Leafs are not doing.

 

[Menzinger]

I read the "more defensive bite" part as a potential upcoming thing. Doesn't really make sense for him to go after Gudas when Washington was buying, not selling. Seemed to be more of a UFA possibility than anything. The only thing with Gudas is that he is not a top 4 guy anymore, and we are not lacking in bottom pairing defensemen... So unless Holl is on the list as well.

It also says that the Nylander trade promise was only for the immediate future (i.e. he's not going to trade him right after he agreed to sign him), but not that he was never going to trade him at all. Which makes a lot more sense given the way Nylander agreed to structure the deal in exchange for some extra money. If Nylander wanted max security, he would have spread that money out so there was less of an incentive for Dubas to trade him... Stacking it up front is like an RFA's way of saying he is fine going without an NTC through those years.

At least this should make some people who are sour on Dubas a little bit happier.

While I'm obviously not a huge fan of trading Nylander unless the ideal return is available, I can't believe how many folks around here interpreted the "promise" as this binding rule that would govern all the teams decisions. It was clearly to communicate to the player that there were no plans to immediately trade the player, not that they would never ever consider even thinking a out moving him.

Neither Nylander nor his agent are niavee

 

[ryno23]

I was reading an article about Vatanen and his trade to NJ. While he is considered a puck mover the article says he started to kill penalties during his time in NJ and was pretty effective at doing it. He also started the 2nd most D zone starts on the team. Also played PP as well in NJ If Pietrangelo is a pipe dream I would do go after Vatanen as he has an all-around game that can fit with Reilly.

Start with him and then you can add a secondary guy to pair with Muzzin in a deal for AJ, Kappy, or even Andersen. Sandin can have another year in the minors to get stronger and be a call-up.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Vesey and Gudas would be nice additions.

 

[BertCorbeau]

While I'm obviously not a huge fan of trading Nylander unless the ideal return is available, I can't believe how many folks around here interpreted the "promise" as this binding rule that would govern all the teams decisions. It was clearly to communicate to the player that there were no plans to immediately trade the player, not that they would never ever consider even thinking a out moving him.

Neither Nylander nor his agent are niavee

Folks take what GMs say to the media way too seriously.

There's going to be endless ripping on Dubas this off-season no matter what he says now.

 

[Kiwi]

They need some bite in the top 9 and top 4.

Clifford is cool but he's a 4th liner. Need that type of "grit" in meaningful spots.

I'd describe our need as "functional toughness"

Hyman is like that, he doesn't crack heads but he fights for every inch of ice and Muzzin is another great example, good skilled player but if he can hit you he will and won't let you cycle him into the ground

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'd describe our need as "functional toughness"

Hyman is like that, he doesn't crack heads but he fights for every inch of ice and Muzzin is another great example, good skilled player but if he can hit you he will and won't let you cycle him into the ground

The thing is, when people refer to toughness, they are not really referring to Hyman or even Vesey-type players. They are usually referring to guys like Simmonds or Tkachuk or Clifford... People who will run guys through the boards or fight guys when they do something the fans do not like. While a Tkachuk or prime-Simmonds would be nice, mostly because they provide a lot of much more valuable elements to the game beyond their toughness, there are a good number of players who are not quite like that but would improve our ability in tight while also giving us the skill that our system thrives upon.

If Dubas is serious about adding a physical element for a reasonable price but still maintaining the skill in his lineup, I think Vesey is the obvious choice (his father is a Leafs scout, we've had prior interest, and we are a competitive team with a role that could allow him to really cash in next year) and then he moves Johnsson and Kapanen. Vesey has not shown to be as skilled as those guys, but he is skilled enough to play Keefe's style, and he even PK's (although not that great so I doubt he is chosen over Hyman, Kerfoot, Engvall, Mikheyev and Marner) and sets up in the same spots as Johnsson and Kapanen on the PP, so he can fill the open hole on the PP.

Also, not that people really know this, but Barabanov is also a guy who is not afraid to cut to the front of the net either. He's not tall, but he is pretty stout (over 190 lbs) and while his highlight package does not really show him as a guy who grinds things out (not that I think that really happens a whole lot in the KHL anyways), it does show he is not afraid to get in the dirty areas to get chances.