Free Agents and Trade Thread - Training camp edition

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Dreakmur

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Hyman comes to mind for sure. I feel like Tavares is very underrated in that regard too, and Matthews has definitely improved but he is just so much more valuable in open space that it would be better if you plan on someone else doing it instead of him. It's the Marner, Nylander, etc. of the world that don't really do it.

Matthews really impressed me this series. He turned into that Kopitar-like player that I thought he could.

Marner is excellent in puck pursuit, but doesn't battle in the corners. He's hot and cold going to the middle... usually cold, but shows some willingness to get hit.

Nylander is hot and cold everywhere, usually cold. He's who I move because I think he's least likely to buy in on a regular basis.
 

Kiwi

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Matthews really impressed me this series. He turned into that Kopitar-like player that I thought he could.

Marner is excellent in puck pursuit, but doesn't battle in the corners. He's hot and cold going to the middle... usually cold, but shows some willingness to get hit.

Nylander is hot and cold everywhere, usually cold. He's who I move because I think he's least likely to buy in on a regular basis.

Both of his goals came from the blue paint, he's also likely to score his goals in close during the regular season
That's Nylander by the way, good effort for a guy who won't buy in

I did hear something about Marner not having a 5v5 point in his last 12 playoff games so I'm less worried about his willingness to get hit and more worried why an 11M player isn't producing like an 11M player

How about this, only trade one of them if the deal is going to make us better instead of playing favorites?
 

SeaOfBlue

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Both of his goals came from the blue paint, he's also likely to score his goals in close during the regular season
That's Nylander by the way, good effort for a guy who won't buy in

I did hear something about Marner not having a 5v5 point in his last 12 playoff games so I'm less worried about his willingness to get hit and more worried why an 11M player isn't producing like an 11M player

How about this, only trade one of them if the deal is going to make us better instead of playing favorites?

Sounds good to me. Same with making a more balanced lineup if it actually makes our team better, not just for the sake of balance? Nothing wrong with having a more balanced team. I like balance. But balance does not guarantee winning either, and if your pursuit of balance leads to you making a poor trade or icing a worse team, then those are the types of moves which get you fired. It's just like if you draft for position rather than the best player available. Ideally, both occur. Sometimes, perhaps the positional value is better than having the absolute best player, but that only happens if that player in that position is still pretty damn close to being as good as the best player.

I guess what I am saying is that it would be perfectly fine for the Leafs to trade a guy like Nylander if it means they are getting a great return, it balances the team, and it makes the team better (or at least as good as it is now). It doesn't if you are trading Nylander for a guy like Manson who is significantly worse than Nylander and will likely never be able to live up to the expectations of providing an impact that rivals Nylander's... That is how you get the second coming of Hall for Larsson. And from a lot of the "suggestions" and "proposals" I have been seeing the past couple of days, there are a lot of Leafs fans who are comfortable with that happening for the sake of "balance"... Probably the same people who will point to that deal as the reason Dubas would get fired if it failed to work.
 

Dreakmur

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Both of his goals came from the blue paint, he's also likely to score his goals in close during the regular season
That's Nylander by the way, good effort for a guy who won't buy in

I did hear something about Marner not having a 5v5 point in his last 12 playoff games so I'm less worried about his willingness to get hit and more worried why an 11M player isn't producing like an 11M player

How about this, only trade one of them if the deal is going to make us better instead of playing favorites?

Nylander hangs around the edges of the net. He avoids the traffic and pounces on loose pucks. I mean, it's effective, but lets not pretend that's a willingness to get hit.
 

Gallagbi

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Nylander hangs around the edges of the net. He avoids the traffic and pounces on loose pucks. I mean, it's effective, but lets not pretend that's a willingness to get hit.
His issues are along the boards rather than infront of the net
 
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Kiwi

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Nylander hangs around the edges of the net. He avoids the traffic and pounces on loose pucks. I mean, it's effective, but lets not pretend that's a willingness to get hit.

If it's effective what's the problem? Hanging around the net which tends to be a high traffic area and banging in garbage seems like an effective strategy to me

His issues are along the boards rather than infront of the net

He's not exactly alone in that issue, most of our guys suck on the boards
 

Gallagbi

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He's not exactly alone in that issue, most of our guys suck on the boards
He straight up bailed numerous times in Games 4/5. We had guys losing battles, but he was one of the few not willing to try. It wasn't all the time, but it happened on a few occasions and that's too many.
 
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Dreakmur

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If it's effective what's the problem? Hanging around the net which tends to be a high traffic area and banging in garbage seems like an effective strategy to me.

I didn’t say it was a problem. I said he avoided contact and was countered with his two goalmouth goals. I was explaining why he could score those goals and still be soft. He hangs around outside the high traffic area. If he sees a safe opening, he takes it.
 

Dreakmur

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He straight up bailed numerous times in Games 4/5. We had guys losing battles, but he was one of the few not willing to try. It wasn't all the time, but it happened on a few occasions and that's too many.

The really frustrating part is that he doesn’t need to play that way. He’s a very solid and has amazing balance.

Marner is slight and weak, so it’s a lot more forgivable to see him bail on a hit, since he’s a lot more likely to actually get injured.
 

Kiwi

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He straight up bailed numerous times in Games 4/5. We had guys losing battles, but he was one of the few not willing to try. It wasn't all the time, but it happened on a few occasions and that's too many.

Great, give them there participation medals because they tried

If your on Nylander you must hate Marner, no 5v5 points, perimeter player, making 11M, struggles to score goals because he doesn't go to the net, played with our best players all series

Oh sorry, he "tries"

I didn’t say it was a problem. I said he avoided contact and was countered with his two goalmouth goals. I was explaining why he could score those goals and still be soft. He hangs around outside the high traffic area. If he sees a safe opening, he takes it.

He goes to high traffic areas and gets rewarded for it, that seems an effective and productive thing to do and you've gone from he won't to he doesn't do stuff I like when he gets there even though it gets results

He could stand on his head for all I care as long as it works and if you look at his season it worked
 
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Gallagbi

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Great, give them there participation medals because they tried
Wtf does that have to do with my post?

If your on Nylander you must hate Marner, no 5v5 points, perimeter player, making 11M, struggles to score goals because he doesn't go to the net, played with our best players all series
Correct, I did not like Mitch's playoffs. Said he should be moved from the big line, made bad decisions regularly and was way too stationary throughout the post season.

Then again, I've also been on Marner throughout the season for the same thing
Oh sorry, he "tries"
Maybe you should just ask instead of assuming next time
 

Kiwi

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Wtf does that have to do with my post?


Correct, I did not like Mitch's playoffs. Said he should be moved from the big line, made bad decisions regularly and was way too stationary throughout the post season.

Then again, I've also been on Marner throughout the season for the same thing

Maybe you should just ask instead of assuming next time

Fair enough I apologize, I'm used to fighting over the both of them at this point even though they both blew during the series
 
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Dreakmur

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He goes to high traffic areas and gets rewarded for it, that seems an effective and productive thing to do and you've gone from he won't to he doesn't do stuff I like when he gets there even though it gets results

He could stand on his head for all I care as long as it works and if you look at his season it worked

He avoids contact. We can go around in circles talking what is or isn’t a high traffic area, but that doesn’t change Nylander’s aversion to making contact.
 
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Kiwi

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He avoids contact. We can go around in circles talking what is or isn’t a high traffic area, but that doesn’t change Nylander’s aversion to making contact.

Does it matter if he produces? I'd love for all our guys to play with a physical edge like Tucker, Clark and Gilmore but they don't so as long as they produce I can accept them for what they are
 

Dreakmur

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Does it matter if he produces? I'd love for all our guys to play with a physical edge like Tucker, Clark and Gilmore but they don't so as long as they produce I can accept them for what they are

If you just want production, sure. I want to win, and it takes more than just one producing points. It’s not even about killing guys like Tucker or Clark... just go try to get the puck! Try to get to the net. Try to box the guy out. Try to screen the goalie. Do something that isn’t on the perimeter.
 

Kiwi

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If you just want production, sure. I want to win, and it takes more than just one producing points. It’s not even about killing guys like Tucker or Clark... just go try to get the puck! Try to get to the net. Try to box the guy out. Try to screen the goalie. Do something that isn’t on the perimeter.

You can say the same thing about most of the lineup and at least he produces points in line with his contract

If only I could say that about all our guys
 

BertCorbeau

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One pro with moving Nylander over Marner, is that a team is more likely able to take on Nylander's full AAV without cap implications. I think that opens the door to more suitors and a better return, since the Leafs would probably have to take an undesirable contract back in any Marner deal.

Who knows what will happen in Florida but they are going to lose key scorers in Hoffman and Dadanov to free agency .. Nylander might appeal to them (especially with his actual salary).

Something like FLA's 1st rounder + Owen Tippett might be a decent return. Just speculating after a quick look on CapFriendly.
 

ACC1224

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Somebody should tell Keefe that. He seems to consistently play Marner 5 minutes more than Nylander.
Nylander expends more energy though in less minutes. Avoiding contact at all cost can be tiring
 

Rare Jewel

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One pro with moving Nylander over Marner, is that a team is more likely able to take on Nylander's full AAV without cap implications. I think that opens the door to more suitors and a better return, since the Leafs would probably have to take an undesirable contract back in any Marner deal.

Who knows what will happen in Florida but they are going to lose key scorers in Hoffman and Dadanov to free agency .. Nylander might appeal to them (especially with his actual salary).

Something like FLA's 1st rounder + Owen Tippett might be a decent return. Just speculating after a quick look on CapFriendly.

A 1st and a winger prospect for Nylander?

If a defenceman can't be had, then getting another center + a defence prospect is what I'd be looking at.
 
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