Free Agents and Trade Thread - Training camp edition

[rumman]

What’s your worst case scenario?

I don't have one, not my circus, not my monkeys. Having said that I'm a fan of the team and hate to see the team mismanaged, perhaps Dubas can make it all work, time will tell? I'm not here to convent anyone to my way of thinking, I'm just expressing my opinions.

 

[Legion34]

I don't have one, not my circus, not my monkeys. Having said that I'm a fan of the team and hate to see the team mismanaged, perhaps Dubas can make it all work, time will tell? I'm not here to convent anyone to my way of thinking, I'm just expressing my opinions.

sure but I mean in your mind..... what’s the worst that can happen with a bunch of players with no trade protection.... all front loaded and in their youth?

Moves can be made.....


Philly has voracek/JVR/Hayes all at 7 plus

Vancouver has erikson/beagle etc.

SJ has a bunch of d on immovable contracts.

arizona/jersey etc spent 7-8 on 40 pt guys.

Toronto’s worst case is they have to move a forward for d.

 

[WTFMAN99]

He shouldn’t get a pass for any missteps but we don’t know yet that he doesn’t have contingencies. It still needs to play out

He likely had a plan for the off-season or an eye on the future probably as recently as the beginning of March but COVID happened. He needs to pivot on whatever his initial ideas are due to this flat cap. He might move on from some players he didn't expect to before.

Curious to see how it goes with him.

 

[rumman]

sure but I mean in your mind..... what’s the worst that can happen with a bunch of players with no trade protection.... all front loaded and in their youth?

Moves can be made.....


Philly has voracek/JVR/Hayes all at 7 plus

Vancouver has erikson/beagle etc.

SJ has a bunch of d on immovable contracts.

arizona/jersey etc spent 7-8 on 40 pt guys.

Toronto’s worst case is they have to move a forward for d.

I was under the assumption that Dubas wasn't trading any of the AM/JT/MM/WN, you know the "we can and we will" statement along with the verbal no trade for Willy pretty much ensures that. So not sure what's left up front that can improve the D, but anythings possible? As for other teams having their own cap problems, well comparisons to other teams cap issues brings nothing to the table except misery loves company imo.

 

[Morgs]

I've never understood the "cap hell" argument. So what we pay our 4 big guys 50% of the cap, we have a legit complete team with four other forwards making over 3M.

Theres not a single contract on this team that doesn't have positive value/cant be buried. If they need to make space at the expense of a Johnsson-type, who f***ing cares. We have plenty of guys that can fill 3rd/4th line and bottom pairing roles.

What's important is we have arguably the best top-6/top-9 F in the league, a top-10 goalie (minus this year), and two elite defenseman. Dont let people on this website fool you, basically every team would trade their current situation for ours other than maybe Tampa and Colorado.

 

[showtime8]

I've never understood the "cap hell" argument. So what we pay our 4 big guys 50% of the cap, we have a legit complete team with four other forwards making over 3M.

Theres not a single contract on this team that doesn't have positive value/cant be buried. If they need to make space at the expense of a Johnsson-type, who f***ing cares. We have plenty of guys that can fill 3rd/4th line and bottom pairing roles.

What's important is we have arguably the best top-6/top-9 F in the league, a top-10 goalie (minus this year), and two elite defenseman. Dont let people on this website fool you, basically every team would trade their current situation for ours other than maybe Tampa and Colorado.

This is a very important thing that people pass over.

You could have potentially a 20 goal scorer on an Entry Level Deal for the next 3 seasons in Robertson because you can assume he will play in the top 9 right away based on skill.

If he replaces the contract of Johnsson, you pick up 2.75 mill in cap space with a lateral (at the worst) move to the roster.

Then you use all other assets to improve your defense keeping in mind that Rielly will be re-signed in 3 years.

 

[Morgs]

This is a very important thing that people pass over.

You could have potentially a 20 goal scorer on an Entry Level Deal for the next 3 seasons in Robertson because you can assume he will play in the top 9 right away based on skill.

If he replaces the contract of Johnsson, you pick up 2.75 mill in cap space with a lateral (at the worst) move to the roster.

Then you use all other assets to improve your defense keeping in mind that Rielly will be re-signed in 3 years.

Yup. As long as drafting/developing stays strong and we continue picking up UFA's like Mikheyev, Lehtonen, Moore, etc. there's very little to worry about assuming the big guys dont fall apart.

 

[showtime8]

Yup. As long as drafting/developing stays strong and we continue picking up UFA's like Mikheyev, Lehtonen, Moore, etc. there's very little to worry about assuming the big guys dont fall apart.

The crucial part of paying these guys through their prime years. You're hoping they don't fall apart at ages 22-24.

I think you can plug and play guys in free agency every year.

 

[Legion34]

I was under the assumption that Dubas wasn't trading any of the AM/JT/MM/WN, you know the "we can and we will" statement along with the verbal no trade for Willy pretty much ensures that. So not sure what's left up front that can improve the D, but anythings possible? As for other teams having their own cap problems, well comparisons to other teams cap issues brings nothing to the table except misery loves company imo.

Ok but cap hell is generally understood to be long term immovable contracts or dead cap. doesnt really fit the leafs. There are many other teams that fit this definition. Toronto isn’t one of them.

It seems like you are more in disagreement with dubas choice of cap structure. And that’s fine. But there is no evidence to suggest that dubas hasn’t changed his line of thinking with the new cap rules. I mean I don’t like that dubas seems to want 6 pp qbs instead of getting a stopper. Hopefully he changes his tune on both.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I was under the assumption that Dubas wasn't trading any of the AM/JT/MM/WN, you know the "we can and we will" statement along with the verbal no trade for Willy pretty much ensures that. So not sure what's left up front that can improve the D, but anythings possible? As for other teams having their own cap problems, well comparisons to other teams cap issues brings nothing to the table except misery loves company imo.

Well let's say you wanted to run a "bare bones" lineup up front. Keep the big 4 and nobody else making over $925,000 (Korshkov) in the lineup. Assuming you keep Andersen, Rielly, and Muzzin as well, you could fill out the next 3 spots with Liljegren/Sandin/Lehtonen and then have almost $9.5M to spend on upgrading that last spot on defense while still running a 23 man roster. There are only a handful of d-men in the league that you cannot afford with that kind of cap space.

With the assets you get for the guys you trade you can probably get a few players still on ELC's that can fill out the bottom 6 forward spots that will help you, and upgrade the defense as you see fit.

 

[Gabriel426]

3C will be key for this off season.
If they can get a vet who plays 3C for about a mil. While trade AJ for picks.
That will go a long way in having extra money for Dman.

If only Engvall can play the 3C spot, then the Leafs will be in great shape in trading out both Kerfoot and AJ.

 

[WTFMAN99]

3C will be key for this off season.
If they can get a vet who plays 3C for about a mil. While trade AJ for picks.
That will go a long way in having extra money for Dman.

If only Engvall can play the 3C spot, then the Leafs will be in great shape in trading out both Kerfoot and AJ.

Extremely difficult to find a good 3C for 1M

I think I have played with the idea of Laughton (2.4M) or Ek (1.5ish. I forget). I kind of gave up hope on Faksa, Dallas won't let him go.

 

[LeafChief]

3C will be key for this off season.
If they can get a vet who plays 3C for about a mil. While trade AJ for picks.
That will go a long way in having extra money for Dman.

If only Engvall can play the 3C spot, then the Leafs will be in great shape in trading out both Kerfoot and AJ.

Extremely difficult to find a good 3C for 1M

I think I have played with the idea of Laughton (2.4M) or Ek (1.5ish. I forget). I kind of gave up hope on Faksa, Dallas won't let him go.

Enter Jumbo Joe Thornton.

 

[Fogelhund]

Enter Jumbo Joe Thornton.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but Kapanen and Thornton on the same line..... Kap could do laps of the rink with the puck, waiting for Jumbo Joe to get into the Offensive zone.

 

[Faltorvo]

okay, I guess the Leafs heading into cap hell was a myth? I'm not a accountant, but even before this pandemic which will most certainly affect the cap going forward the Leafs had challenges imo. I believe it will come to bite them, you disagree. Guess will see what happens going forward.

No ,,,cap hell was a cap maxed out roster that could not even make it into the POs the phat phil era.

in time,, sandin,lilly,derm should round out our D at affordable cap hits.

we are years away from caring about our cap .

the bottom of the roster is in fine shape and the top end is strong and set.

 

[Faltorvo]

Indeed, a $10 million 3rd line is a poor allocation of funds when you have a $45 million dollar top-6. Plus, Muzzin is 31, we should be adding a quality defenseman on top of him before he declines.

we are and will,,,it's called internal growth,,,derm,sandin,lilly to name 3 young ones.

10 million 3rd line??? ummm hrmmmm how so?

 

[Faltorvo]

it's his job to make contingencies as per cap going up or down, doesn't get a pass imo.

and you think he does not have these contingencies?

 

[Faltorvo]

true that, but unfortunately I don't think I'm wrong when I say "cap hell" is coming............

i can read cap friendly well enough

i don't see where this "hell" will come from.

 

[Fogelhund]

we are and will,,,it's called internal growth,,,derm,sandin,lilly to name 3 young ones.

10 million 3rd line??? ummm hrmmmm how so?

Kap $3.2
Kerfoot $3.5
Johnsson $3.4

Is who is being referenced.

 

[Gabriel426]

Extremely difficult to find a good 3C for 1M

I think I have played with the idea of Laughton (2.4M) or Ek (1.5ish. I forget). I kind of gave up hope on Faksa, Dallas won't let him go.

Enter Jumbo Joe Thornton.

we are and will,,,it's called internal growth,,,derm,sandin,lilly to name 3 young ones.

10 million 3rd line??? ummm hrmmmm how so?

I think Engvall will be key in his development into a 3C.
Also, I don't understand why AM, Willie, JT and Marner got to be in the top two lines.
Willie can play C, while Marner can be the line driver on his own line.
Hyman-AM-Willie
Soup-JT-Marner
Robertson-Engvall-Kap
or
Hyman-AM-Willie
Soup-JT-Kap
Robertson-Engvall-Marner
or
Hyman-AM-Marner
Soup-JT-Robertson
Engvall-Willie-Kap

In the lineup where Marner is on a line with Engvall and Robertson, Engvall just needs to win draws and be solid defensively and let Marner do all the offence thing while Robertson just needs to get open. The JT line is pretty much the shutdown line.

The lineup with Willie at 3c, all three lines are solid and can score and skate. Assuming Willie can be a solid C.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think Engvall will be key in his development into a 3C.
Also, I don't understand why AM, Willie, JT and Marner got to be in the top two lines.
Willie can play C, while Marner can be the line driver on his own line.
Hyman-AM-Willie
Soup-JT-Marner
Robertson-Engvall-Kap
or
Hyman-AM-Willie
Soup-JT-Kap
Robertson-Engvall-Marner
or
Hyman-AM-Marner
Soup-JT-Robertson
Engvall-Willie-Kap

In the lineup where Marner is on a line with Engvall and Robertson, Engvall just needs to win draws and be solid defensively and let Marner do all the offence thing while Robertson just needs to get open. The JT line is pretty much the shutdown line.

The lineup with Willie at 3c, all three lines are solid and can score and skate. Assuming Willie can be a solid C.

Both Nylander and Engvall suck at centre, they're way better at wing.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Both Nylander and Engvall suck at centre, they're way better at wing.

Nylander can play center pretty well, it is just that he is going to be wasted as a 3C just like Kadri was.

However if Matthews or JT got injured, Nylander would be my first choice to replace them as a top 6 center.

 

[Mad hatter]

Enter Jumbo Joe Thornton.

If hockey doesn’t start back again until sometime in the new year it will be close to a year between real games for him. I know he’s a smart player but at his age that’s a long layoff from competitive games imho.

 

[Gabriel426]

Both Nylander and Engvall suck at centre, they're way better at wing.

Nylander can play center pretty well, it is just that he is going to be wasted as a 3C just like Kadri was.

However if Matthews or JT got injured, Nylander would be my first choice to replace them as a top 6 center.

1. I stated in my quote, Engvall development into a C is key. I don't think he is good enough yet from the games he played at C.
2. From the games Willie played at C, I think he is at least on par with Kerfoot if not better.
Agree with Sea of Blue, if there is an injury to JT or AM, Willie is the natural choice to replace them.

 

[WTFMAN99]

1. I stated in my quote, Engvall development into a C is key. I don't think he is good enough yet from the games he played at C.
2. From the games Willie played at C, I think he is at least on par with Kerfoot if not better.
Agree with Sea of Blue, if there is an injury to JT or AM, Willie is the natural choice to replace them.

I'd probably just promote Kerfoot to 2nd line centre if it happened in these playoffs, he's played that spot before for the Avalanche. Nylander and Engvall look like they're thinking about what to do whenever they play centre for the Leafs whereas whenever they're at wing, they know, no hesitation or delay & they're far better at it.

If Engvall or Spezza are the 3C next season, there are problems.