Free Agency thread part II

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Gionta in his first year was fantastic. 2nd year was okay but not quite as good but then down hill from there.

Cammy was great in the playoffs but pretty underwhelming otherwise.

We paid good money for those 2 at that time.

 

[Milhouse40]

Thing is...are you going to pay Duchene 9.5M-10M, only to then play him behind Danault in important situations?

If you commit to that kind of money with Duchene, then there needs to be a change in philosophy from the coaching staff on how they deploy their players.

Paying Duchen 10M to play 16 mins a game...not sure that's a smart use of money.

This is assuming that Montreal is an option.

No, it's probably not a smart thing but he would still be a top line center for us.
On what do you want to spend it?

Couple of mid-talented players through trades for Cap Space and cheap UFA signing?
We have plenty of that, more than enough and even more on the way.

Will we wait for maybe another top UFA has Montreal on his list?
That doesn't happen very often…….never actually.

Won't prevent to sign Domi next year and it will help to ease the trade of another one of our mid-talented player.
We Don't have players to get big raises for another 2 years (other than Domi) and by then they will probably be replace by our cheaper prospects on their way.

I'm not entirely sold on this idea, but if that money is use on more mid-talented guys, i prefer to get Duchene instead.

 

[waffledave]

Gionta was worth that and more his first two years. He's a goal scorer. Calling him by his points is just dishonest. The problem with a lot of people is they're quoting salaries "5 million" dollar player using the old cap without considering the new cap. His contract should have been more like 7 million, 7 million, 5 million, 3 million, 3 million. Injuries happen. Did we get our money's worth the year he was injured? No. Did we get our money's worth all those years Markov was injured? No. It is what it is.

Again what was the alternative? Washed up Koivu, Kovalev, or Tanguay? Without Gionta, we don't go to the conference finals. None of those players put up numbers close to what Gionta put up and Kovalev was paid more.

I am considering the new cap. A $5mil contract then is over $7mil today. You want to ignore point totals, fine. Would you pay $7mil per year for a guy who puts up 25 goals per year (which he did not do, but hell I'm going to use your "per 82 games" defense too). Would you give Kyle Palmieri $7mil+ ?

 

[417]

This is assuming that Montreal is an option.

It's been widely reported, by enough reputable sources, that Montreal will be an option. Not worried about that.

No it's probably not a smart thing but he would still be a top line center for us.
On what do you want to spend it?

I don't mind going after Duchene, wouldn't mind paying top dollar as long as it's not over 5yrs, anything longer I'm less interested.

But I'm also fine with not spending significantly either, I've said all offseason that for me, other then Panarin or maybe Duchene, best path to take the next step is via the trade market.

Couple of mid-talented players through trades for Cap Space and cheap UFA signing?
We have plenty of that, more than enough and even more on the way.

Good ol' hockey trades

Will we wait for maybe another top UFA has Montreal on his list?
That doesn't happen very often…….never actually.

I'm not a big UFA guy but that doesn't mean I'd be opposed to spending on the right target.

Is that Duchene? I go back and forth, but I'd he's interested, and all indications are that he is, then you can't ignore that.

Won'tprevent to sign Domi next year and it will help to ease the trade of another one of our mid-talented player.
We Don't have players to get big raises for another 2 years (other than Domi) and by then they will probably be replace by our cheaper prospects on their way.

I'm not entirely sold on this idea, but if that money is use on more mid-talented guys, i prefer to get Duchene instead.

I'm not worried about the Habs ability to be able to sign/retain their own players...if teams want to retain a specific player, they will find a way.

 

[26Mats]

I am considering the new cap. A $5mil contract then is over $7mil today. You want to ignore point totals, fine. Would you pay $7mil per year for a guy who puts up 25 goals per year (which he did not do, but hell I'm going to use your "per 82 games" defense too). Would you give Kyle Palmieri $7mil+ ?

No, let's not go to the conference finals and instead not spend 7 million but 8 million on that great player "cap space." If we're really crafty, we can land another 12 goal scorer like Armia by taking on a 4 million dollar contract.

Again, you ignored the question: what were the alternatives?

And to answer your question, I probably would spend 7 million on Palmieri, and I would have spent 5 million on him back then, when there was no one else available/that would come here and we didn't have to give up assets to get him. This notion that people aren't "7 million" dollar players or "5 million" dollar players is based on the past salary cap. I think a lot of people would not want to sign Palmieri at 7 now, but would be fine if he went back in time and signed for 5 back then. If Subban gets back to top form, he's an 11 million dollar player under the current cap, on a 9 million dollar contract. People need to get used to that.

Because Hayes isn't worth 7 million doesn't mean Palmieri isn't either. Palmieri's a much better player than Hayes.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Stone signed for 9.5 M
If Duchene wants to sign with Montreal (we're in the top of his list), I don't think it will end up more than that

 

[Adam Michaels]

No, thanks!

 

[Adam Michaels]

This will be entertaining.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

If we trade Armia for Puljujarvi, and sign Duchene

Drouin - Duchene - Shaw
Domi - Kotkaniemi - Puljujarvi
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Byron - Weal - Lehkonen

 

[Paddyjack]

If we trade Armia for Puljujarvi, and sign Duchene

Drouin - Duchene - Shaw
Domi - Kotkaniemi - Puljujarvi
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Byron - Weal - Lehkonen

I have serious doubts about Puljujarvi, I'm not sure I would touch that player. I would rather keep Armia who is actually a beast in PK and very useful.

The Puljujarvi situation reminds me a bit of Yakupov. People were saying "hey should try our chances with him, maybe he will pan out in MTL"....

 

[Garbageyuk]

This will be entertaining.

It's going to get ugly, just like many predicted.

Honestly, I don't get this from a Leafs perspective. Marner is their best player. They gave AM a ridiculous number for only 5 years, and now they are going to play hardball with Marner? Not smart. This will not end well...

 

[HuGo Sham]

if duchene is signing for 10 mill, it won't be with montreal; bargain bin won't pay that and duchene isn't prioritizing mtl

 

[Archijerej]

If we trade Armia for Puljujarvi, and sign Duchene

Drouin - Duchene - Shaw
Domi - Kotkaniemi - Puljujarvi
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Byron - Weal - Lehkonen

So you're not only giving up our best forechecking forward for Puljujarvi, but you also expect a 19 year old Kotkaniemi, who barely looked like an NHL player at some points last season, to carry him and on top of that you assign this line more minutes then our most effective line? Brilliant!

 

[Runner77]

So Marner wants a 5 year term like Matthews? The Laffs created a lethal precedent.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

So you're not only giving up our best forechecking forward for Puljujarvi, but you also expect a 19 year old Kotkaniemi, who barely looked like an NHL player at some points last season, to carry him and on top of that you assign this line more minutes then our most effective line? Brilliant!

So youre saying it would be better to place puljujarvi with duchene and let him face the best defensemen from the opposing team, or play him with danault and get ton of defensive zone starts? Or even are you saying we should play him 10 min a night on the 4th line?

Because thats the other options if hes not playing with kotkaniemi.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Archijerej]

So youre saying it would be better to place puljujarvi with duchene and let him face the best defensemen from the opposing team, or play him with danault and get ton of defensive zone starts? Or even are you saying we should play him 10 min a night on the 4th line?

Because thats the other options if hes not playing with kotkaniemi.

What I'm saying is Puljujarvi wouldn't crack our top-9. Hence, there is absolutely no reason to trade for him.

 

[Milhouse40]

It's been widely reported, by enough reputable sources, that Montreal will be an option. Not worried about that.


I don't mind going after Duchene, wouldn't mind paying top dollar as long as it's not over 5yrs, anything longer I'm less interested.

But I'm also fine with not spending significantly either, I've said all offseason that for me, other then Panarin or maybe Duchene, best path to take the next step is via the trade market.


Good ol' hockey trades


I'm not a big UFA guy but that doesn't mean I'd be opposed to spending on the right target.

Is that Duchene? I go back and forth, but I'd he's interested, and all indications are that he is, then you can't ignore that.


I'm not worried about the Habs ability to be able to sign/retain their own players...if teams want to retain a specific player, they will find a way.

I don't think there's really "targets" in the UFA world, at least for the top UFA.
They always have a short list of team/city they would like to play to.

If you're not on it, they won't even take your call.
You fight for the very few who might accept to come to play for you.

As for hockey trades goes, it's of course the other options and there seems to be good ones out there.
But that cost money and assets. UFA only cost money, that's not something to overlook when you wrote the check.

 

[NobleSix]

This will be entertaining.

Leafs are f***ed lol

 

[Sterling Archer]

No, thanks!

f***. Off.

 

[the valiant effort]

The Leafs have some good problems to have, but Shanny’s arrogance got the best of him and the club. The Shanaplan seems to consist solely of standing in the shadows like a godfather, hoping his aura fuels Dubas to greatness while their stars kowtow to their needs.

 

[Milhouse40]

Leafs are ****ed lol

I'm sure they will find a way even if it involves trading him.
But they also have Kapanen, Johnsson and they can't resign Gardiner and they can't improve their defense.
I'm expecting fireworks.

 

[Runner77]

What I'm saying is Puljujarvi wouldn't crack our top-9. Hence, there is absolutely no reason to trade for him.

He's only mildly appealing as a project and given the Habs's Finnish contingent.

Thus, if he's pursued, it needs to be for some other equally disappointing project or speculative asset. Otherwise, pass.

 

[Runner77]

Leafs are ****ed lol

As much as they look f***ed now, you know they're going to find a way out of it. I never put too much weight on where a team is at early in the summer. There are always opportunities that we're not seeing right now.

 

[1909]

If we trade Armia for Puljujarvi, and sign Duchene

Drouin - Duchene - Shaw
Domi - Kotkaniemi - Puljujarvi
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Byron - Weal - Lehkonen

Puuljarvie = Yakupov. Lots of tools, no toolbox.