Free Agency thread part II

What UFA most likely signs with the habs?


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417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,255
27,464
Ottawa
I'm off the Edler bandwagon. Ray Ferraro convinced me.

He was on 690 this afternoon and gave a sobering account.

Said that he's often injured and always leaves you wanting.

Just when you think he can deliver more, he doesn't.

He's a top 4, not a top 2.

Also, he said beware of the third contract year -- it's the one that's going to produce a Marleau effect -- the type of unwanted, irritating third year where you're stuck with him.

There was more but can't remember.

Doesn't sound like someone to throw major money at.

Plus, his demand for an NTC seals the deal. On to someone else.
Best way to improve the left side is via the trade market...there's really no one in free agency that will be a significant upgrade while also providing cost-value.
 
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MSLs absurd thighs

Formerly Tough Au Lit
Feb 4, 2013
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People crap on contracts and say a guy like Duchene getting 10M would be too much... But in the end, it's all a matter of perspective. You have to look at those contracts and evaluate them in terms of Cap Percentage (Cap %).

For example. A guy like Kevin Hayes getting approximately 7M on a 82M$ salary cap will get approximately 8.5% of his team's cap space.
Let's go back to 2005, right after the lockout. The salary cap was 39M. We signed Kovalev to a 4 years deal worth 18M$ total back then, which was 11.5% of our cap space. So in the end, 9.5M is the new 4.5M.

Let's do another exercise. Let's go back to the summer of 2009, i.e the infamous Gainey spending spree. Salary cap was set at 56.8M. Back then, we signed Cammalleri to a 5 years, 6M per season contract. 6M back then was 10.5% of a team's cap space. Today, under a 82M cap, 10.5% of a team's cap space is... 8.66M.

Given the fact Duchene is a C, the extra million or so makes perfect sense.

Let's give Duchene 10M. It's 12.2% of a team's cap space. Back in 2009, the amount would've been almost exactly 7M. Hardly a ridiculous amount for a top-line, under-30 years old C who just came off a career year.

You guys have to put things on perspective.
 

MTL-rules

Registered User
Nov 17, 2006
9,700
2,466
People crap on contracts and say a guy like Duchene getting 10M would be too much... But in the end, it's all a matter of perspective. You have to look at those contracts and evaluate them in terms of Cap Percentage (Cap %).

For example. A guy like Kevin Hayes getting approximately 7M on a 82M$ salary cap will get approximately 8.5% of his team's cap space.
Let's go back to 2005, right after the lockout. The salary cap was 39M. We signed Kovalev to a 4 years deal worth 18M$ total back then, which was 11.5% of our cap space. So in the end, 9.5M is the new 4.5M.

Let's do another exercise. Let's go back to the summer of 2009, i.e the infamous Gainey spending spree. Salary cap was set at 56.8M. Back then, we signed Cammalleri to a 5 years, 6M per season contract. 6M back then was 10.5% of a team's cap space. Today, under a 82M cap, 10.5% of a team's cap space is... 8.66M.

Given the fact Duchene is a C, the extra million or so makes perfect sense.

Let's give Duchene 10M. It's 12.2% of a team's cap space. Back in 2009, the amount would've been almost exactly 7M. Hardly a ridiculous amount for a top-line, under-30 years old C who just came off a career year.

You guys have to put things on perspective.
Talk about perspective, very bad exemples...

Cammaleri and Gionta were terrible contracts... Cammaleri was traded for scrap (remember the great Rene Bourque) because he was mostly a cap dump and Gionta never lived up to his contract. You can add the terrible Gomez trade and you see why some posters suggest Gainey was one of the worst GM in habs history.

If you sign Duchene to a 10mil a year contract, you'll most probably regret it... anyways, only time will tell...
 
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MSLs absurd thighs

Formerly Tough Au Lit
Feb 4, 2013
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Talk about perspective, very bad exemples...

Cammaleri and Gionta were terrible contracts... Cammaleri was traded for scrap (remember the great Rene Bourque) because he was mostly a cap dump and Gionta never lived up to his contract. You can add the terrible Gomez trade and you see why some posters suggest Gainey was one of the worst GM in habs history.

If you sign Duchene to a 10mil a year contract, you'll most probably regret it... anyways, only time will tell...

What in the f*** are you talking about?

Cammalleri came out of a 39 goals season and before his injury, was well on his way to score 40-45 as a Hab in his first season. He was our single scoring force in the 2010 playoffs run and was our only productive forward in the 2011 Boston series too. When he was traded, it's because he said the team had a loser attitude, and Gauthier was a joke.

Gionta had 25-30 goals on average for 5M a year.

You're just parotting idiocies without knowing what the hell you're talking about.
 

Gaylord Q Tinkledink

Registered User
Apr 29, 2018
28,510
29,732
Talk about perspective, very bad exemples...

Cammaleri and Gionta were terrible contracts... Cammaleri was traded for scrap (remember the great Rene Bourque) because he was mostly a cap dump and Gionta never lived up to his contract. You can add the terrible Gomez trade and you see why some posters suggest Gainey was one of the worst GM in habs history.

If you sign Duchene to a 10mil a year contract, you'll most probably regret it... anyways, only time will tell...

Gionta and Cammalleri were not terrible contracts.
 

Kent Nilsson

Imagine cringing at Brock Nelson like a moron
Jan 31, 2016
4,431
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Talk about perspective, very bad exemples...

Cammaleri and Gionta were terrible contracts... Cammaleri was traded for scrap (remember the great Rene Bourque) because he was mostly a cap dump and Gionta never lived up to his contract. You can add the terrible Gomez trade and you see why some posters suggest Gainey was one of the worst GM in habs history.

If you sign Duchene to a 10mil a year contract, you'll most probably regret it... anyways, only time will tell...

Cammy was great for us
 
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Milhouse40

Registered User
Aug 19, 2010
22,058
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Talk about perspective, very bad exemples...

Cammaleri and Gionta were terrible contracts... Cammaleri was traded for scrap (remember the great Rene Bourque) because he was mostly a cap dump and Gionta never lived up to his contract. You can add the terrible Gomez trade and you see why some posters suggest Gainey was one of the worst GM in habs history.

If you sign Duchene to a 10mil a year contract, you'll most probably regret it... anyways, only time will tell...

Signing any player 10+ millions and you'll most likely regret it, except very few exceptions of course.
But we always hate and think it's a high price the day of the signing, but normally 2-3 years later, it seems like the standard.

Look how Shaw was terribly overpaid when Bergevin signed him….and he was and i hated that contract. But today, it's not a bargain but it's not that terrible. Today he goes UFA, would easily get 4.5M if not more.

I like Price but when he signed his deal, i said "ouch". But i look at Skinner, Hayes or Karlsson deal today….same thing, not a bargain but not that terrible. He goes UFA today, he get that amount for sure if not more.
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
Signing any player 10+ millions and you'll most likely regret it, except very few exceptions of course.
But we always hate and think it's a high price the day of the signing, but normally 2-3 years later, it seems like the standard.

Look how Shaw was terribly overpaid when Bergevin signed him….and he was and i hated that contract. But today, it's not a bargain but it's not that terrible. Today he goes UFA, would easily get 4.5M if not more.

I like Price but when he signed his deal, i said "ouch". But i look at Skinner, Hayes or Karlsson deal today….same thing, not a bargain but not that terrible. He goes UFA today, he get that amount for sure if not more.

When Price signed for $6.5m everyone went ouch too.

Contracts go up with the cap, that's literally what the cap is supposed to do. Tie the value of contracts to league revenue. The salary cap guarantees a certain percentage of revenue going to the players.
 
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26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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Talk about perspective, very bad exemples...

Cammaleri and Gionta were terrible contracts... Cammaleri was traded for scrap (remember the great Rene Bourque) because he was mostly a cap dump and Gionta never lived up to his contract. You can add the terrible Gomez trade and you see why some posters suggest Gainey was one of the worst GM in habs history.

If you sign Duchene to a 10mil a year contract, you'll most probably regret it... anyways, only time will tell...

Cammalleri and Gionta were great contracts. Aside from their great production, we don't make it to the conference finals without them. Sure the last year of Gionta's contract wasn't great, and Cammalleri's last year here wasn't spectacular. But in both cases, 1 mediocre year doesn't erase all their previous contributions. It's too bad people only remember the last impression sometimes.

Their contracts are part of the reason I'm OK with paying top dollar to a quality offensive 27-30 year old UFA. It would only help us to add offense in the top 9.
 

Runner77

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Jun 24, 2012
83,298
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Sure but you don’t want to lose a 23 year old NHL regular that you can trust in any situation because you're forced to protect a 35 year old stopgap with a NMC on the last year of his contract. That would be terrible management.

Of course you don't want to lose the 23-year old but it's not about the 35 year old -- it's about who the Habs add on D until the expansion draft. If they trade or sign someone better than Mete or someone they absolutely have to protect, then what? Something has to give.

Anyhow, there's still a lot of time. Let's see what direction Bergevin takes and who he adds and then we can see whether there is a surplus and who is expendable.
 

Tighthead

Registered User
Nov 9, 2016
3,612
3,832
I hate to say it but I think this free agency will bring on the lockout. It was looking so promising that we wouldn't have any issues but I'm not so sure any more.

I'm very much in favour of max contract length being only 5 years maybe even less like 3 or 4 with options. The money and term that decent players are getting is starting to get out of hand.

Out of hand in what sense?

I don’t get the fan perspective of “Kevin Hayes got a big contract, time to lock out the workers”.

Players get a percentage of HRR. Hayes got his bite of the apple. Guys who signed a year or two ago got less. It’s always been inflationary.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,166
25,919
East Coast
People crap on contracts and say a guy like Duchene getting 10M would be too much... But in the end, it's all a matter of perspective. You have to look at those contracts and evaluate them in terms of Cap Percentage (Cap %).

For example. A guy like Kevin Hayes getting approximately 7M on a 82M$ salary cap will get approximately 8.5% of his team's cap space.
Let's go back to 2005, right after the lockout. The salary cap was 39M. We signed Kovalev to a 4 years deal worth 18M$ total back then, which was 11.5% of our cap space. So in the end, 9.5M is the new 4.5M.

Let's do another exercise. Let's go back to the summer of 2009, i.e the infamous Gainey spending spree. Salary cap was set at 56.8M. Back then, we signed Cammalleri to a 5 years, 6M per season contract. 6M back then was 10.5% of a team's cap space. Today, under a 82M cap, 10.5% of a team's cap space is... 8.66M.

Given the fact Duchene is a C, the extra million or so makes perfect sense.

Let's give Duchene 10M. It's 12.2% of a team's cap space. Back in 2009, the amount would've been almost exactly 7M. Hardly a ridiculous amount for a top-line, under-30 years old C who just came off a career year.

You guys have to put things on perspective.

I'm not crazy happy if we sign him for $10M AAV but you made very good points about perspective. One other example is if we overpaid Radulov to $7M+. That would look pretty darn good today
 

Playmaker09

Registered User
Sep 11, 2008
3,305
1,525
He's pretty much done with his subpar speed and knee injury.

He's a year removed from a 50 point season and would probably only get 2 years at 3 million or so. He also doesn't need to move to park his ass in the high slot on the PP.

Outside of the top tier of UFA's, I'm much more prepared to pay that than commit to Nyquist for 7 years 6.5 million.
 
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calder candidate

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Feb 25, 2003
4,697
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After seeing some of the deal that have been sign I think the no point of diving in the UFA since these guy we acquire are being paid for what they accomplished they might be worth the salary 1 to 4 years out of 7 and after that there will surely become anchors... We aren’t 1 player away, I think the better use of our cap space is to pluck player from team like Vegas. If you can get a 2 guy out of Smith or Gusev or Karlsson or Marchessault or Thoedore or McNaab out of Vegas to take Clarkson. It might not have the impact that Duchesne would but signing a 7/10M$ player will leave us with no flexibility and when it is time to resign Domi/ Danault/ Gallagher/ KK we won’t be able to pay everyone or have to move player so will lose some depth and it will hurt us went we enter real window.
 

MSLs absurd thighs

Formerly Tough Au Lit
Feb 4, 2013
9,424
4,280
After seeing some of the deal that have been sign I think the no point of diving in the UFA since these guy we acquire are being paid for what they accomplished they might be worth the salary 1 to 4 years out of 7 and after that there will surely become anchors... We aren’t 1 player away, I think the better use of our cap space is to pluck player from team like Vegas. If you can get a 2 guy out of Smith or Gusev or Karlsson or Marchessault or Thoedore or McNaab out of Vegas to take Clarkson. It might not have the impact that Duchesne would but signing a 7/10M$ player will leave us with no flexibility and when it is time to resign Domi/ Danault/ Gallagher/ KK we won’t be able to pay everyone or have to move player so will lose some depth and it will hurt us went we enter real window.

With that attitude of doing nothing because "we're not 1 player away", when exactly are we supposed to be at the point where we're "1 player away"?
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,166
25,919
East Coast
Well after seeing how much the Flyers gave Hayes lol, yes probably going to take at least 9.5 to get Duchene

If we are fighting the Preds for Duchene and he is after the most money he can get, forget about it.

giphy.gif
 

le_sean

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
39,551
38,961
The great thing about the Habs cap situation is not just the $11m they have available, but the fact that real dead weight will be off the team next year (Weise, Mason buyout, Peca, Deslauriers) for an additional $5.5m of space. And other than Alzner, they don’t have any untradeable contracts. They can get themselves space if they really want.
 
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