Confirmed with Link: Flyers Trade 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Round Picks For Tony DeAngelo And a 7th (Signs 2x$5M Ext)

[Rebels57]

Remember, Chuck only made one minor mistake

I ignore all attention whore contrarians but I am still pretty sure I know who would say such a thing.

 

[Curufinwe]

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Let's recap again for shits and giggles.

Shayne Gostisbehere​

2022 2nd round pick​

2022 7th round pick​

to Arizona for ...cap space

2021 1st round pick (14th overall - Isak Rosen)​

Robert Hagg​

2023 2nd round pick​

to Buffalo for...Ristolainen

​

4th round pick in 2022​

3rd round pick in 2023​

2nd round pick in 2022​

to Carolina for...DeAngelo and a 7th

Ristolainen extended after his 1st season, which was awful, 5 years $25 million
DeAngelo extended prior to playing a game, 2 years $10 million

It's almost inconceivable that he was allowed to do this and not only that, is still employed this very second.

They would literally be BETTER had they just kept Ghost and Hagg vs DeAngelo and Ristolainen...and then you have the nearly $5 million in cap space savings and the SEVEN DRAFT PICKS.

And if you absolutely must acquire DeAngelo (you don’t), he was available for super cheap offseason before last. The contract he signed with the canes was just one year $1 million IIRC. Chuckles could have offered more, and saved those three picks.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Well, maybe.
Risto is better than Haggm who is the 7th D-man in Det. In fact, Seeler is better than Hagg.

Nor is Ghost much better than TDA, CF 45.05%, xGF 42.32%, GF/GA 35/40, 1.00 pp/60 (playing with Chychrun half the season)
TDA CF 46.81%, xGF 40.22%, GF/GA 28/36, 0.81 pp/60.

But even if you give a slight edge to TDA/Risto, that's a lot to pay for a marginal improvement when you're not a playoff team.

You said you don't cherrypick stats.

Yet here you are, doing precisely that and removing necessary context to paint a false narrative in defense of an incompetent management group.

No it's not.
Trade JVR and scraps at the TDL, Hayes and Provorov this summer.
Start Andrae at LHV next year and bring him up mid-season.

By summer 2024, JVR, Hayes, TDA, and Provorov gone, $26M off the books.
Atkinson with only one year left. Risto with 3 years but no urgency to move him.
That solves any cap issues, only signings are Tippett, Cates, Frost & York, all in RFA seasons.

Two big holes, playmaking center and RHD with a couple years to fill them.
Refrain from name FAs, use the cap room to sweeten deals, keep adding young talent.

You said "no tear down"

That is a tear down.

 

[Magua]

"But even if you give a slight edge to TDA/Risto....."

Who is giving a slight edge to TDA/Risto over Ghost/XYZ? That XYZ can be literally any player: Seeler, Braun, York -- it's basically impossible for there to be any edge there. Okay, maybe Fletcher acquisition Yandle.

Fletcher stated that TDA was a top pair defender, just like in Carolina! Ignoring all the complexities of his usage. Because he doesn't deal with complexities. Provorov-Ghost/Sanheim-York could be your top 4 right now for zero assets out. Arizona is about to gain another asset for Ghost. A Provorov trade could still be in the cards. And you'd have a king's ransom of top 14-40 picks with which to play. Those to me sound like options.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The problem is that he can’t play defense and is leaving the goalies out to hang and dry. Being from Philly is irrelevant. He’s a horrible defenseman. Almost Yandle bad.

That’s a separate argument from the question I was asking with respect to a specific post.

And also something I already addressed.

 

[deadhead]

You said you don't cherrypick stats.

Yet here you are, doing precisely that and removing necessary context to paint a false narrative in defense of an incompetent management group.



You said "no tear down"

That is a tear down.

No, it's not.
You're trading a 33 year old forward and a 30 year old forward, and replacing them with a 31 year old center and a 34 year old forward.
You're trading a 26 year old D-man and replacing him next year with a 22 year old D-man (Andrae).

They could make these moves, promote some prospects, maybe add a short-term low cost patch at RHD, and conceivably be a better team next season.

Now if they were to also trade Hart, TK, Sanheim, Frost and Allison, that would be a tear down.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, it's not.
You're trading a 33 year old forward and a 30 year old forward, and replacing them with a 31 year old center and a 34 year old forward.
You're trading a 26 year old D-man and replacing him next year with a 22 year old D-man (Andrae).

They could make these moves, promote some prospects, maybe add a short-term low cost patch at RHD, and conceivably be a better team next season.

Now if they were to also trade Hart, TK, Sanheim, Frost and Allison, that would be a tear down.

You talked about shipping out 8 prominent pieces in the next couple years on top of "Scraps." That's half the roster. It's a teardown.

 

[deadhead]

You talked about shipping out 8 prominent pieces in the next couple years on top of "Scraps." That's half the roster. It's a teardown.

No, I talked about trading JVR (soon to be a UFA), Hayes and Provorov.
TDA in two years, at the TDL or when his contract expires.

Guys like MacEwen, Brown, Seeler, Braun, may be gone in any case, at the TDL if they're offered anything, at the end of the season if not. But they're fringe players.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, I talked about trading JVR (soon to be a UFA), Hayes and Provorov.
TDA in two years, at the TDL or when his contract expires.

Guys like MacEwen, Brown, Seeler, Braun, may be gone in any case, at the TDL if they're offered anything, at the end of the season if not. But they're fringe players.

And then changing out multiple others.

A teardown.


Surely you must see the confusion when you insist a tear-down is bad and then propose instead only changing over half of the roster in short order. Which is the same thing.

 

[deadhead]

And then changing out multiple others.

A teardown.


Surely you must see the confusion when you insist a tear-down is bad and then propose instead only changing over half of the roster in short order. Which is the same thing.

You really struggle with reading comprehension.
My point was TO BE a tear down, you'd ALSO have to trade those other starters.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You really struggle with reading comprehension.
My point was TO BE a tear down, you'd ALSO have to trade those other starters.

Are you OK?

You said this. These are your words, that you wrote, right up there:

"Trade JVR and scraps at the TDL, Hayes and Provorov this summer.
Start Andrae at LHV next year and bring him up mid-season.

By summer 2024, JVR, Hayes, TDA, and Provorov gone, $26M off the books.
Atkinson with only one year left. Risto with 3 years but no urgency to move him."

JVR
Hayes
Provorov (all this is already quite significant!)
Scraps (an anomalous number of players that I assume means Deslauriers, Brown, MacEwen, Braun, Seeler, as those are the obvious scraps)

And then sometime evidently before the summer of 2024, TDA is gone and then you let Atkinson go away. 10 players gone. Half the roster, and basically all the current "core." Teardown.

 

[deadhead]

Trading two over 30 veterans, a D-man with one year left and a bunch of scrubs is not a "tear down."
Provorov is the only player who might in their future plans.
By the time Atkinson might be moved he'll be their 4th or 5th RW (TK, Tippett, Brink, Foerster, Allison).
And I've been told Risto is so bad he'd be addition by subtraction.

No one in their right mind thinks Deslauriers, Brown, MacEwen, Braun and Seeler are anything more than marginal depth players.
Teams shuffle these kind of guys every offseason.

To be a "tear down," you'd have to trade core players in their mid-20s (Hart, TK, Sanheim, Allison, etc) for draft picks and deliberately crash the team for high draft position.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Trading two over 30 veterans, a D-man with one year left and a bunch of scrubs is not a "tear down."
Provorov is the only player who might in their future plans.
By the time Atkinson might be moved he'll be their 4th or 5th RW (TK, Tippett, Brink, Foerster, Allison).
And I've been told Risto is so bad he'd be addition by subtraction.

No one in their right mind thinks Deslauriers, Brown, MacEwen, Braun and Seeler are anything more than marginal depth players.
Teams shuffle these kind of guys every offseason.

To be a "tear down," you'd have to trade core players in their mid-20s (Hart, TK, Sanheim, Allison, etc) for draft picks and deliberately crash the team for high draft position.

Ah so now you're just going to be bizarrely nitpicky. This is weird. I don't know why you're being weird.

Purging half your top six and half your defense (including your supposed top pair #1 dman) in a short period is a teardown.

 

[deadhead]

Ah so now you're just going to be bizarrely nitpicky. This is weird. I don't know why you're being weird.

Purging half your top six and half your defense (including your supposed top pair #1 dman) in a short period is a teardown.

Huh. Your 2LW who's a FA in any case, your 3LW, your 2nd or third best LD (York is clearly your best), your RHD who is playing his way out of a top 4 role.

Don't think that's very drastic.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Another master class of asset management by Carolina. Found a dumb team to buy on their pump & dump with DeAngelo.

 

[freakydallas13]

Who could have predicted TDA would be terrible here, except every non-contrarian on this board.

Thank god that expanded analytic department helped Chuck make this shrewd pick up though. And think of the culture he brought with him!

Truly a slam dunk.

 

[Magua]

Another master class of asset management by Carolina. Found a dumb team to buy on their pump & dump with DeAngelo.

And gained assets going from DeAngelo to Burns, with zero on ice impact loss (a gain!). No team is better at finding market inefficiencies, while not creating their own inefficiencies. If the Flyers are the “no other options” franchise, then the Canes look in grandma’s sofa cushions for another option.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Another master class of asset management by Carolina. Found a dumb team to buy on their pump & dump with DeAngelo.

When Fletcher teaches his class does he come off as simple jack?

 

[Deadpool8812]

I don't even have to see his posts (I blocked him) yet I know exactly who you guys are talking about

 

[dragonoffrost]

Huh. Your 2LW who's a FA in any case, your 3LW, your 2nd or third best LD (York is clearly your best), your RHD who is playing his way out of a top 4 role.

Don't think that's very drastic.

The only reason it looks like shit on the way out is because your boy Chuckie brought in most of that festering slop you now call inconsequential on the way out. Funny how you defend him but yet backhandedly slap him across his face.

Guys I think he's wanting to get off the Chuckles bandwagon about now. Chuckles is getting fired soon!

 

[Flyer lurker]

The only reason it looks like shit on the way out is because your boy Chuckie brought in most of that festering slop you now call inconsequential on the way out. Funny how you defend him but yet backhandedly slap him across his face.

Guys I think he's wanting to get off the Chuckles bandwagon about now. Chuckles is getting fired soon!

That bandwagon is more lonely than that fans of a Melissa McCarthy spread in Penthouise.

 

[DAVIDE1333]

The only reason it looks like shit on the way out is because your boy Chuckie brought in most of that festering slop you now call inconsequential on the way out. Funny how you defend him but yet backhandedly slap him across his face.

Guys I think he's wanting to get off the Chuckles bandwagon about now. Chuckles is getting fired soon!

"Chuckles is getting fired soon!"
What makes you think that? I'm sure the front office thinks things are looking up.

 

[dragonoffrost]

"Chuckles is getting fired soon!"
What makes you think that? I'm sure the front office thinks things are looking up.

 

[deadhead]

The only reason it looks like shit on the way out is because your boy Chuckie brought in most of that festering slop you now call inconsequential on the way out. Funny how you defend him but yet backhandedly slap him across his face.

Guys I think he's wanting to get off the Chuckles bandwagon about now. Chuckles is getting fired soon!

I don't defend him, I just don't think Fletcher is the primary problem with the FO.
Fire him, and you'll end up with someone similar, making similar mistakes unless changes are made at the top.

If you don't fire Scott, and bring in an executive willing to take out the trash, the only hope would be for Briere to replace Fletcher, and team up with Torts and use the media to pressure the FO into accepting a better strategy than patch and hope.

There's been a lot of pressure to show that the team is trying to be competitive, when Hextall traded Schenn for draft picks, they should have also moved Voracek, Simmonds and Raffl, conceding the rebuild wasn't finished - but that was unacceptable so he goes and signs JVR to try and win now with Laughton and Patrick as your 2C and 3C and Elliott and Neuwirth as your goalies.

Fletcher comes in, and the mandate is to win now, so he trades for Niskanen, Braun, signs Hayes. Meawhile Raffl is 32, Voracek is 30, more assets depreciating and becoming valueless when the window suddenly closes when Hart has a sophomore slump.

Summer 2021 was the time to accept the gig was up, but AV certainly wasn't going to preside over a "reload" so now desperation moves. Move out Ghost, Hagg and Voracek, who now have negative trade value, move in Atkinson, Yandle, Risto.

Last spring and summer, when it was obvious a rebuild was in order, Scott is blathering about an "aggressive reload" so we get total cognitive dissonance, trade G, don't sign JG, but trade for TDA and extend Risto instead of trading him.