Confirmed with Link: Flyers Trade 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Round Picks For Tony DeAngelo And a 7th (Signs 2x$5M Ext)

[Tripod]

I don't defend him....except for the hundreds of times a day I defend what we has done.

 

[dragonoffrost]

So let me guess when the team fires Scott, Fletch, Flahr and gang then it's Brian Roberts is the issue.

 

[deadhead]

I don't defend him....except for the hundreds of times a day I defend what we has done.

Not defending what he did, showing that the pattern goes back to Hextall trying to keep his job in 2018.
As long as the FO refuses to accept reality, any GM will make short-sighted moves to keep his job.

The worst thing that happened was the playoff run in 2017-18, the series against the Pens should have made it clear they weren't close to being a top 8 team, but the FO saw it as a sign they were close and pushed Hextall to end the rebuild.

2017-18: GF 249, GA 230, xGF 161, xGF 153. A team that probably should have finished with 92 or so points and miss the playoffs.
Florida missed with 96 points, Flyers squeezed in with 98.

D: Provorov, Ghost, AMac, Hagg, Manning, Gudas
F: Couts, G, Voracek, Simmonds, Filppula, TK, Lindblom, Patrick, Raffl, Weal, Laughton, Weise/Lehtera

 

[Curufinwe]

The GM is the FO.

 

[Tripod]

The GM is the FO.

Have you not heard, this GM, President, and Advisor has no power.

 

[deadhead]

The GM is the FO.

No, he's not - as Hextall discovered.

Fletcher was hired with a mandate to include "everyone" in his decision making process, Holmgren made it clear they wanted a consensus model (i.e. the senior advisors would get input and an implicit veto). And Scott is too weak to put his foot down.

Every reporter has noted from inside sources that there is growing conflict in the FO - if Fletcher was the FO, he's have to be schizophrenic to have conflict!

The difference with the Eagles, Lurie strongly backs Howie, so he can have senior advisors give input, but there is no question who the final decision maker is, and we've seen unhappy advisors on draft day when their advice was ignored.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, he's not - as Hextall discovered.

Fletcher was hired with a mandate to include "everyone" in his decision making process, Holmgren made it clear they wanted a consensus model (i.e. the senior advisors would get input and an implicit veto). And Scott is too weak to put his foot down.

Every reporter has noted from inside sources that there is growing conflict in the FO - if Fletcher was the FO, he's have to be schizophrenic to have conflict!

The difference with the Eagles, Lurie strongly backs Howie, so he can have senior advisors give input, but there is no question who the final decision maker is, and we've seen unhappy advisors on draft day when their advice was ignored.

Hextall and his favorite sidekick weren't President and VP. Not comparable. Hextall never had even half the level of control Fletcher has been handed.

 

[kudymen]

 

[Flyer lurker]

Pre stating Flusher is horse manure.
Getting that out of the way.

If you bump up Flusher make Briere gm and still have Clarke and Homer as the sword of Damacles hanging over the head of Briere, then Briere will fail.

The only way the organization can start to truly become a contender (I don't mean make it as an 8 seed and bounced round 1) is to have an enema in the entire front office.

 

[deadhead]

Hextall and his favorite sidekick weren't President and VP. Not comparable. Hextall never had even half the level of control Fletcher has been handed.

Hextall had MORE control once Snider signed off on a partial rebuild.
He cut everyone out of the loop and did what he wanted. Because Snider gave him that power.
The problem was, once Snider died, his control depended on Holmgren/Clarke's patience.
But they never interfered with his decisions, they just fired him.

Fletcher may have titles on paper, but from the get go it was clear that he had to operate on a consensus basis, and knew that Scott was talking to the advisors (that is, they had access independent of him). So he's never had the autonomy that Hextall did.

He may make the final decisions (partially b/c the advisors like the lack of accountability, influence without responsibility), but he vets everything with the "Gang of Four."

Any good Commie should recognize that party titles don't provide authority, control of the military and secret police provides authority.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hextall had MORE control once Snider signed off on a partial rebuild.
He cut everyone out of the loop and did what he wanted. Because Snider gave him that power.
The problem was, once Snider died, his control depended on Holmgren/Clarke's patience.
But they never interfered with his decisions, they just fired him.

Fletcher may have titles on paper, but from the get go it was clear that he had to operate on a consensus basis, and knew that Scott was talking to the advisors (that is, they had access independent of him). So he's never had the autonomy that Hextall did.

He may make the final decisions (partially b/c the advisors like the lack of accountability, influence without responsibility), but he vets everything with the "Gang of Four."

Any good Commie should recognize that party titles don't provide authority, control of the military and secret police provides authority.

Fletcher is the entire power structure and he has Scott's full trust. Fletcher has used that greater power to create this dysfunctional "collaboration."

 

[deadhead]

Fletcher is the entire power structure and he has Scott's full trust. Fletcher has used that greater power to create this dysfunctional "collaboration."

There is no evidence supporting that, in fact, the opposite, Scott and Fletcher were talking past each other last year, which suggests Scott was taking his cues from someone other than Fletcher.

And if it's true that Fletcher didn't want Torts, then more evidence that the FO is splintered and Fletcher is merely the head of one faction.

"One source told me Fletcher wasn't as high on Tortorella as others were and would have preferred a different kind of coach, however, the search committee identified his leadership and accountability skills as being so off the charts that he would be an ideal fit for the Flyers situation.

Additionally, a former NHL player who is close to both Tortorella and the Flyers said that Fletcher likely doesn't want Torts as a coach because Torts is notoriously tough on general managers when it comes to the kinds of players he wants and doesn't want to coach."

Flyers' GM Chuck Fletcher is REALLY skeptical with the probable hiring of Tortorella

That's a very weird situation.

www.flyersinsider.com

Charlie says that Fletcher wasn't opposed, or at least came around to the decision - I suspect the rumors were right, but once Chuck saw the handwriting on the wall (the advisors and Comcast both support Torts after they couldn't get Trotz) he swallowed his objections. A good politician knows when to cut his losses.

Torts has done what they expected him to do, make this team more respectable relative to last season, but I don't think they expected him to be so forthright about the lack of talent and need to rebuild.

Why the Flyers hired John Tortorella as head coach

The Tortorella hire fits the Flyers' stated organizational plan. But does that plan itself make sense?

theathletic.com

 

[Nizzle]

I was reading replies from monday as I thought I hadn’t read them. It’s hard to keep track as it is the same conversation every day.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

They really don't have much of a choice, I think. They are not signing any potential big name FA's because no one really wants to come here, and while they could make a trade for a veteran, they can't completely overturn their roster via trades. So, they are going to have to plug the holes internally with younger players.




The biggest pieces they are missing is top line/elite level talent. They need a legit top line center. Even if Couts comes back very strong, he's still on the other side of the aging curve. And, there is not a top line center in their pipeline. They also need top line defender. Again there isn't a top line defender in their pipeline. If they get both of those in the next 2 drafts, then it's possible by 26-27, they are ready to really go at it. But there's still so much uncertainty between now and then. And for clarity, this is only looking at the roster construction, not mgmt. If mgmt remains the same, they are just going to f*** it up anyways.

If all this ifs come to fruition you still has a lot of bad contracts and not enough salary for a playoff team in my eyes

 

[dragonoffrost]

Torts has done what they expected him to do, make this team more respectable relative to last season, but I don't think they expected him to be so forthright about the lack of talent and need to rebuild.

If this is true then they didn't know Torts. That dude has no filter.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

He’s giving all his offense back this year with his poor defense. The Flyers as a team aren’t good enough defensively to mitigate his defensive issues.

 

[deadhead]

TDA is a disappointment, I didn't expect good defense, I was hoping for mediocre defense, like say Carlsson et al.
I don't think Torts will be patient forever, if Attard looked ready he'd be up.

York prefers the left side, but he's doing such a good job on Provorov's right side that I can see them leaving him there for the indefinite future. Right now he looks like the only 1st pair caliber D-man on the roster, he's raised Provorov's game back to respectability.

 

[Rebels57]

I was reading replies from monday as I thought I hadn’t read them. It’s hard to keep track as it is the same conversation every day.

Every. Single. f***ing Day.

Maddening that people engage with some that is not intellectually honest.

 

[Beef Invictus]

TDA is a disappointment, I didn't expect good defense, I was hoping for mediocre defense, like say Carlsson et al.
I don't think Torts will be patient forever, if Attard looked ready he'd be up.

York prefers the left side, but he's doing such a good job on Provorov's right side that I can see them leaving him there for the indefinite future. Right now he looks like the only 1st pair caliber D-man on the roster, he's raised Provorov's game back to respectability.

If you were hoping for mediocre defense then you badly missed on the player evaluation.

 

[Striiker]

If you were hoping for mediocre defense then you badly missed on the player evaluation.

And it also means dream version of TDA is the actual standard version of Ghost.

 

[Embiid]

To be fair and not revisionist....Hextall only took the GM job because he wanted to be empowered and no longer subject to meddling. I specifically recall an interview where he said he told Snider he would not take the job on that condition and it was granted. So yeah he had a lot of Putin-like power and like Putin absolute power corrupts absolutely. Once Snider was gone Clarke and Holmgren teamed up with Comcrap and ousted the one eyed king and replaced him with a brainless one who handed over his balls to a consensus committee management philosophy which the Sixers and Brand themselves disavowed in short order because they said it was not working....too many cooks..not enough chefs.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

You know, you used to get racism for free.

 

[Embiid]

You know, you used to get racism for free.

Yup..the Flyers paid for it...go figure. Just a hollow corporate shell of an org anymore...

 

[Striiker]

Was this posted? Just in case it wasn't...

 

[kudymen]

Was this posted? Just in case it wasn't...

"I really want this guy... but I cannot fit him in... I will trade away someone else even if it means adding assets to him... and then I will finally be able to trade assets for this guy..."