Confirmed with Link: Flyers Trade 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Round Picks For Tony DeAngelo And a 7th (Signs 2x$5M Ext)

[dragonoffrost]

DeAngelo has blown defensively, no two ways about it.

Talented, good offensively, but he won’t get an extension with this type of defensive play.

Play that was known and expected when this all went down. Again a failure on Fletcher to do any diligence that should be done by any GM worth the title.

 

[Rich Nixon]

DeAngelo has blown defensively, no two ways about it.

Talented, good offensively, but he won’t get an extension with this type of defensive play.

He won't get a great trade return, either.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Play that was known and expected when this all went down. Again a failure on Fletcher to do any diligence that should be done by any GM worth the title.

Eh, he was coming off a couple very productive seasons, is a RH shot, & only turned 27 in October.

I don’t mind taking the shot. Hard position to fill, a 2nd & a 3rd is nothing if he works out with Provorov. If he doesn’t, whatever, only two yr deal, nothing ventured nothing gained, & can probably recoup most of the assets.

 

[renberg]

It’s a $10M, three draft choice shot. Bad idea

 

[dragonoffrost]

Eh, he was coming off a couple very productive seasons, is a RH shot, & only turned 27 in October.

I don’t mind taking the shot. Hard position to fill, a 2nd & a 3rd is nothing if he works out with Provorov. If he doesn’t, whatever, only two yr deal, nothing ventured nothing gained, & can probably recoup most of the assets.

Only turned 27 in December so being in the league as long as he has been it should be known he has been a disaster with anyone but Slavin.

Just for reference about Mr Slavin look at the Norris Trophy Finishes...

Jaccob Slavin Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Jaccob Slavin. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

when you compare that with Provorov

Ivan Provorov Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Ivan Provorov. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Yeah Provorov isn't in that league.

 

[deadhead]

It reflects the FO's unwillingness to countenance anything smacking of a rebuild.
So TDA is the kind of gamble you take when you have limited resources but attempt to remain competitive.
Unlike JG, who was a sure thing, TDA didn't require a 7 year commitment that could burn them 3-4 years down the road.

It's just more of the same, keep shuffling cap room and players hoping to get lucky, instead of biting the bullet.

Which is why I care more about Scott than Fletcher. As long as the strategy is flawed, the results will be flawed.

Replace Scott with an executive who'll clean house, commit to a rebuild (not necessarily a tear-down, but a 3-5 year vision built around garnering young assets). Then once the FO decides upon a rational strategy, hire a GM to implement that strategy.

 

[deadhead]

Only turned 27 in December so being in the league as long as he has been it should be known he has been a disaster with anyone but Slavin.

Just for reference about Mr Slavin look at the Norris Trophy Finishes...

Jaccob Slavin Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Jaccob Slavin. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

when you compare that with Provorov

Ivan Provorov Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Ivan Provorov. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Yeah Provorov isn't in that league.

Three years ago in NY:

Marc Staal - TDA 504 minutes, CF 45.49%, xGF 45.67%, GF/GA 21/18
Skjei - TDA 204 minutes CF 50.63%, xGF 49.12%, GF/GA 12/10

I don't think they expected him to play up to his performance with Slavin, but something more akin to what he did with Skjei, and better than being paired with Staal.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Three years ago in NY:

Marc Staal - TDA 504 minutes, CF 45.49%, xGF 45.67%, GF/GA 21/18
Skjei - TDA 204 minutes CF 50.63%, xGF 49.12%, GF/GA 12/10

I don't think they expected him to play up to his performance with Slavin, but something more akin to what he did with Skjei, and better than being paired with Staal.

If they think Provorov is a Norris defenseman (which we know they do) with the right partner.... They expected Carolina TDA more than Rangers TDA.

Again they f***ed up in the details of evaluating TDA Totally and partially with Provorov.

 

[Rebels57]

Let's recap again for shits and giggles.

Shayne Gostisbehere​

2022 2nd round pick​

2022 7th round pick​

to Arizona for ...cap space

2021 1st round pick (14th overall - Isak Rosen)​

Robert Hagg​

2023 2nd round pick​

to Buffalo for...Ristolainen

​

4th round pick in 2022​

3rd round pick in 2023​

2nd round pick in 2022​

to Carolina for...DeAngelo and a 7th

Ristolainen extended after his 1st season, which was awful, 5 years $25 million
DeAngelo extended prior to playing a game, 2 years $10 million

It's almost inconceivable that he was allowed to do this and not only that, is still employed this very second.

They would literally be BETTER had they just kept Ghost and Hagg vs DeAngelo and Ristolainen...and then you have the nearly $5 million in cap space savings and the SEVEN DRAFT PICKS.

 

[Embiid]

Let's recap again for shits and giggles.

Shayne Gostisbehere​

2022 2nd round pick​

2022 7th round pick​

to Arizona for ...cap space

2021 1st round pick (14th overall - Isak Rosen)​

Robert Hagg​

2023 2nd round pick​

to Buffalo for...Ristolainen

​

4th round pick in 2022​

3rd round pick in 2023​

2nd round pick in 2022​

to Carolina for...DeAngelo and a 7th

Ristolainen extended after his 1st season, which was awful, 5 years $25 million
DeAngelo extended prior to playing a game, 2 years $10 million

It's almost inconceivable that he was allowed to do this and not only that, is still employed this very second.

They would literally be BETTER had they just kept Ghost and Hagg vs DeAngelo and Ristolainen...and then you have the nearly $5 million in cap space savings and the SEVEN DRAFT PICKS.

CRIMINAL!

 

[Beef Invictus]

It reflects the FO's unwillingness to countenance anything smacking of a rebuild.
So TDA is the kind of gamble you take when you have limited resources but attempt to remain competitive.
Unlike JG, who was a sure thing, TDA didn't require a 7 year commitment that could burn them 3-4 years down the road.

It's just more of the same, keep shuffling cap room and players hoping to get lucky, instead of biting the bullet.

Which is why I care more about Scott than Fletcher. As long as the strategy is flawed, the results will be flawed.

Replace Scott with an executive who'll clean house, commit to a rebuild (not necessarily a tear-down, but a 3-5 year vision built around garnering young assets). Then once the FO decides upon a rational strategy, hire a GM to implement that strategy.

There is no 3-5 year vision that fixes this team. It's too far gone.

 

[deadhead]

Let's recap again for shits and giggles.

Shayne Gostisbehere​

2022 2nd round pick​

2022 7th round pick​

to Arizona for ...cap space

2021 1st round pick (14th overall - Isak Rosen)​

Robert Hagg​

2023 2nd round pick​

to Buffalo for...Ristolainen

​

4th round pick in 2022​

3rd round pick in 2023​

2nd round pick in 2022​

to Carolina for...DeAngelo and a 7th

Ristolainen extended after his 1st season, which was awful, 5 years $25 million
DeAngelo extended prior to playing a game, 2 years $10 million

It's almost inconceivable that he was allowed to do this and not only that, is still employed this very second.

They would literally be BETTER had they just kept Ghost and Hagg vs DeAngelo and Ristolainen...and then you have the nearly $5 million in cap space savings and the SEVEN DRAFT PICKS.

Well, maybe.
Risto is better than Haggm who is the 7th D-man in Det. In fact, Seeler is better than Hagg.

Nor is Ghost much better than TDA, CF 45.05%, xGF 42.32%, GF/GA 35/40, 1.00 pp/60 (playing with Chychrun half the season)
TDA CF 46.81%, xGF 40.22%, GF/GA 28/36, 0.81 pp/60.

But even if you give a slight edge to TDA/Risto, that's a lot to pay for a marginal improvement when you're not a playoff team.

 

[deadhead]

There is no 3-5 year vision that fixes this team. It's too far gone.

No it's not.
Trade JVR and scraps at the TDL, Hayes and Provorov this summer.
Start Andrae at LHV next year and bring him up mid-season.

By summer 2024, JVR, Hayes, TDA, and Provorov gone, $26M off the books.
Atkinson with only one year left. Risto with 3 years but no urgency to move him.
That solves any cap issues, only signings are Tippett, Cates, Frost & York, all in RFA seasons.

Two big holes, playmaking center and RHD with a couple years to fill them.
Refrain from name FAs, use the cap room to sweeten deals, keep adding young talent.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It’s a $10M, three draft choice shot. Bad idea

Meh, they took a chance on a 27 y/o RHD coming off 53 & 51 pt seasons with only 68 & 64 GP.

Pretty unlikely the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th rd pick ever hits that level.

Only a two year deal. Doesn’t pan out, no big deal, & they’ll get a pick back if they want to trade him. Worth the shot. I’d rather them take a few chances than try nothing.

 

[deadhead]

The problem is he's 27, so if he pans out, you have to extend him at 29.
It's more a move for a team that thinks it's a playoff contender than one that should be rebuilding.

 

[flyerslducks]

No it's not.
Trade JVR and scraps at the TDL, Hayes and Provorov this summer.
Start Andrae at LHV next year and bring him up mid-season.

By summer 2024, JVR, Hayes, TDA, and Provorov gone, $26M off the books.
Atkinson with only one year left. Risto with 3 years but no urgency to move him.
That solves any cap issues, only signings are Tippett, Cates, Frost & York, all in RFA seasons.

Two big holes, playmaking center and RHD with a couple years to fill them.
Refrain from name FAs, use the cap room to sweeten deals, keep adding young talent.

Ya 26 mill off the books for the stupid f*** fletcher to ruin. This is the same guy who wasted cap on risto and we think getting cap space is a good thing with him running the show?

 

[dragonoffrost]

No it's not.
Trade JVR and scraps at the TDL, Hayes and Provorov this summer.
Start Andrae at LHV next year and bring him up mid-season.

By summer 2024, JVR, Hayes, TDA, and Provorov gone, $26M off the books.
Atkinson with only one year left. Risto with 3 years but no urgency to move him.
That solves any cap issues, only signings are Tippett, Cates, Frost & York, all in RFA seasons.

Two big holes, playmaking center and RHD with a couple years to fill them.
Refrain from name FAs, use the cap room to sweeten deals, keep adding young talent.

Then you also have to Replace JvR funny how trading him isn't thought of to open another hole.

Hayes and TDA you address the need to replace. And we know Provy is redundant now so call up a kids for 2LD (maybe move York there) and 3LD and slide Sanheim to 1LD

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The problem is he's 27, so if he pans out, you have to extend him at 29.
It's more a move for a team that thinks it's a playoff contender than one that should be rebuilding.

Why’s that a problem?

If it works out, you extend him at 29. He’s a Philly boy & staying is his preference.

If it doesn’t work out, you don’t extend him & probably get a 2nd rd pick back for him in a trade (or at least a 3rd).

 

[deadhead]

Then you also have to Replace JvR funny how trading him isn't thought of to open another hole.

Hayes and TDA you address the need to replace. And we know Provy is redundant now so call up a kids for 2LD (maybe move York there) and 3LD and slide Sanheim to 1LD

Lycksell will get the first shot at replacing JVR.

Hayes will be tougher as the organization has gone RH at forward, but Tippett has played a lot at LW, and Gauthier is LH, so Gauthier/Cates can fill that LW slot. Foerster/Brink could move into Tippett's RW slot, or Atkinson.

Desnoyers, Laczynski should get a shot at the 4th line, Wisdom may be another year away.

Provorov leaving would allow York to become the 1LW, he's already more reliable than Sanheim.
York, Sanheim, Andre.
??? , Attard, Risto.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Lycksell will get the first shot at replacing JVR.

Hayes will be tougher as the organization has gone RH at forward, but Tippett has played a lot at LW, and Gauthier is LH, so Gauthier/Cates can fill that LW slot. Foerster/Brink could move into Tippett's RW slot, or Atkinson.

Desnoyers, Laczynski should get a shot at the 4th line, Wisdom may be another year away.

Provorov leaving would allow York to become the 1LW, he's already more reliable than Sanheim.
York, Sanheim, Andre.
??? , Attard, Risto.

That's way too much youth for this front office and you know it. But keep slurping.

 

[deadhead]

That's way too much youth for this front office and you know it. But keep slurping.

Point is it COULD be done, and by 2025-26 have a young team with a stockpile of draft picks and a bunch of cap room.

Now WILL it be done, well, that's another story.

 

[renberg]

Why’s that a problem?

If it works out, you extend him at 29. He’s a Philly boy & staying is his preference.

If it doesn’t work out, you don’t extend him & probably get a 2nd rd pick back for him in a trade (or at least a 3rd).

The problem is that he can’t play defense and is leaving the goalies out to hang and dry. Being from Philly is irrelevant. He’s a horrible defenseman. Almost Yandle bad.

 

[Striiker]

This is the key difference between TDA and Ghost. The former is a legit defensive liability who needs to be carried and drags down his pair, while the latter is not and does not.

TDA at 5v5 with...	Time Together	xGF% with	xGF% without TDA
Provorov	360:01	39.55	50.50
Sanheim	281:34	38.06	46.84

Provorov with...	Time Together	Expected Goals Against per 60
DeAngelo	360:01	3.61
Ristolainen	231:24	2.50
York	200:49	2.60

Sanheim with...	Time Together	Expected Goals Against per 60
Braun	295:49	2.22
DeAngelo	281:34	3.79
Ristolainen	121:49	2.86

 

[VladDrag]

That's way too much youth for this front office and you know it. But keep slurping.

They really don't have much of a choice, I think. They are not signing any potential big name FA's because no one really wants to come here, and while they could make a trade for a veteran, they can't completely overturn their roster via trades. So, they are going to have to plug the holes internally with younger players.

Point is it COULD be done, and by 2025-26 have a young team with a stockpile of draft picks and a bunch of cap room.

Now WILL it be done, well, that's another story.

The biggest pieces they are missing is top line/elite level talent. They need a legit top line center. Even if Couts comes back very strong, he's still on the other side of the aging curve. And, there is not a top line center in their pipeline. They also need top line defender. Again there isn't a top line defender in their pipeline. If they get both of those in the next 2 drafts, then it's possible by 26-27, they are ready to really go at it. But there's still so much uncertainty between now and then. And for clarity, this is only looking at the roster construction, not mgmt. If mgmt remains the same, they are just going to f*** it up anyways.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Let's recap again for shits and giggles.

Shayne Gostisbehere​

2022 2nd round pick​

2022 7th round pick​

to Arizona for ...cap space

2021 1st round pick (14th overall - Isak Rosen)​

Robert Hagg​

2023 2nd round pick​

to Buffalo for...Ristolainen

​

4th round pick in 2022​

3rd round pick in 2023​

2nd round pick in 2022​

to Carolina for...DeAngelo and a 7th

Ristolainen extended after his 1st season, which was awful, 5 years $25 million
DeAngelo extended prior to playing a game, 2 years $10 million

It's almost inconceivable that he was allowed to do this and not only that, is still employed this very second.

They would literally be BETTER had they just kept Ghost and Hagg vs DeAngelo and Ristolainen...and then you have the nearly $5 million in cap space savings and the SEVEN DRAFT PICKS.

Remember, Chuck only made one minor mistake