Speculation: Flyers interested in Ryan O'Reilly

[Jame]

I never said what ROR did wasnt impressive. Not one have I trashed ROR. I'm simply saying that implying Couturiers original situation was just as bad, if not worse, than RORs this year, and he was doing it when he was 19, not 26. Theres a pretty big disparity there. I'm sure you can recognize and appreciate that.

My bad. I think couturier is a phenomenal player. I think we agreed earlier and I mistook your last post.

 

[Starat327]

Go look at RORs linemates this year

Tell ya what, just for giggles, I went back and looked. In his early years. His most common linemates were

Matt read
Steve downie
Rj umberger
Zach rinaldi
Mike knuble
Max Talbot

I cant find o reilly's on dobber or left wing lock (they show up blank for some reason), but you've got one hell of a mountain to climb if you're gonna tell me they were worse than the above.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I promise you it’s no less homerish than any other fan bases view of their favorite prospects

I’m very familiar with the data. I’m also very familiar with why coaches and players feel deifferently

And yet, it's not. I'm only speaking toward where I would rank him within a hierarchy of Flyers assets to avoid specifically that issue. Feel free to check out any of my litany of posts about how Flyers' fans overrate Provorov if you'd like an idea of what I mean.

Perhaps you should think about your statement as it relates to ROR if you believe it so strongly.

 

[Neutrinos]

Sabres < Lehtera, Weise, #14, #19

Flyers < O'Reilly

 

[Jame]

Tell ya what, just for giggles, I went back and looked. In his early years. His most common linemates were

Matt read
Steve downie
Rj umberger
Zach rinaldi
Mike knuble
Max Talbot

I cant find o reilly's on dobber or left wing lock (they show up blank for some reason), but you've got one hell of a mountain to climb if you're gonna tell me they were worse than the above.

The difference being when given top line minutes/role... he got giroux/Voracek

This year ROR got
LW: Benoit Pouliot, Scott Wilson, Zemgus Girgensons
RW: Kyle Okposo, Jason Pominville, Sam Reinhart

He doesn’t get anything remotely close to what Couturier gets, or Bergeron...

 

[Jame]

Sabres < Lehtera, Weise, #14, #19

Flyers < O'Reilly

Try again

 

[Jame]

And yet, it's not. I'm only speaking toward where I would rank him within a hierarchy of Flyers assets to avoid specifically that issue. Feel free to check out any of my litany of posts about how Flyers' fans overrate Provorov if you'd like an idea of what I mean.

Perhaps you should think about your statement as it relates to ROR if you believe it so strongly.

Cool, Provorov works as a starting point for ROR

 

[bauer]

ROR would produce identically to Bergeron if he were in his skates (Boston, linemates, usage, etc)

there is nothing to support that at all. Bergeron didn't have great linemates when he put up back to back 70 point seasons.

 

[tictactoe]

Tell ya what, just for giggles, I went back and looked. In his early years. His most common linemates were

Matt read
Steve downie
Rj umberger
Zach rinaldi
Mike knuble
Max Talbot

I cant find o reilly's on dobber or left wing lock (they show up blank for some reason), but you've got one hell of a mountain to climb if you're gonna tell me they were worse than the above.

Jody freaking Shelley.. Couturier played with Shelley...

 

[Starat327]

The difference being when given top line minutes/role... he got giroux/Voracek

This year ROR got
LW: Benoit Pouliot, Scott Wilson, Zemgus Girgensons
RW: Kyle Okposo, Jason Pominville, Sam Reinhart

He doesn’t get anything remotely close to what Couturier gets, or Bergeron...

I was specifically comparing couturiers younger years where someone tried calling some bs excuse for production. couturier was also much younger in his development curve while he produced exceptional 5v5 ( he wasnt playing PP) stats. When ROR played in Colorado with better talent he produced better. That's to be expected of just about anyone.

I think we mostly agree on the issue, so I'm not going to beat a dead horse here. But I'll leave you with this. Ror had 61 points this year with garbage linemates. 23 on the PP, so 38 if math serves me, at 5v5 or other.

In 13-14, a 21 year old couturier managed 36 5v5 or non PP points. With common linemates of Steve downie, matt read, and lecavalier.

Again. The point is that they are equally impressive players who are massively underrated by fan bases who dont watch the player for 80 games a season.

 

[Jame]

I was specifically comparing couturiers younger years where someone tried calling some bs excuse for production. couturier was also much younger in his development curve while he produced exceptional 5v5 ( he wasnt playing PP) stats. When ROR played in Colorado with better talent he produced better. That's to be expected of just about anyone.

I think we mostly agree on the issue, so I'm not going to beat a dead horse here. But I'll leave you with this. Ror had 61 points this year with garbage linemates. 23 on the PP, so 38 if math serves me, at 5v5 or other.

In 13-14, a 21 year old couturier managed 36 5v5 or non PP points. With common linemates of Steve downie, matt read, and lecavalier.

Again. The point is that they are equally impressive players who are massively underrated by fan bases who dont watch the player for 80 games a season.

Only a fool would call out couturiers early years... the flyers did everything right in his development path...

I’m glad someone else recognizes the impact of playing with talent. ROR is a 60 point center who plays with far less talent than any other comparable player (be it Couturier or Bergeron).

 

[tsujimoto74]

Tell ya what, just for giggles, I went back and looked. In his early years. His most common linemates were

Matt read
Steve downie
Rj umberger
Zach rinaldi
Mike knuble
Max Talbot

I cant find o reilly's on dobber or left wing lock (they show up blank for some reason), but you've got one hell of a mountain to climb if you're gonna tell me they were worse than the above.

So...actually, pretty accurate. ROR did have Reinhart on his RW for most of the 2nd half of the season, but before that it was Pominville/Okposo, and the LW was Pouliot/Wilson/Girgensons/whatever other garbage Buffalo had laying around.

 

[Neutrinos]

Try again

Very insightful. You've given me a lot to think about

 

[Starat327]

So...actually, pretty accurate. ROR did have Reinhart on his RW for most of the 2nd half of the season, but before that it was Pominville/Okposo, and the LW was Pouliot/Wilson/Girgensons/whatever other garbage Buffalo had laying around.

Nicely done.

 

[DictatorTots427]

Couturier-O'Rielly-Patrick down the middle would be sick, and Philadelphia has the pieces to make it happen. Probably something around Sanheim and and one of PHI's 1st rounders this year would work.

 

[Guy Gadowsky]

Philly needs a 3C kinda bad and Couturier-ROR-Patrick would be fun, but 7.5 for 5 years is a long time

 

[Panthaz89]

Tell ya what, just for giggles, I went back and looked. In his early years. His most common linemates were

Matt read
Steve downie
Rj umberger
Zach rinaldi
Mike knuble
Max Talbot

I cant find o reilly's on dobber or left wing lock (they show up blank for some reason), but you've got one hell of a mountain to climb if you're gonna tell me they were worse than the above.

the original post also said that Couterier was also playing in a lesser role at the time while O'Reily has more time than Eichel a game meaning he has underwhelming linemates while playing directly against the opposing teams best line the majority of the time not simply just a checking line. I don't think anyone can find that outscoring opposing lines is even possible in Buffalo's situation unless this center happens to be McDavid where the Sabres like to stick 3rd and 4th line forwards on their top line and expect the stars to carry them like a Crosby/McDavid. Heck they left Eichel with Pominville for hell of a long time who couldn't produce without him at all.

 

[Starat327]

the original post also said that Couterier was also playing in a lesser role at the time while O'Reily has more time than Eichel a game meaning he has underwhelming linemates while playing directly against the opposing teams best line the majority of the time not simply just a checking line. I don't think anyone can find that outscoring opposing lines is even possible in Buffalo's situation unless this center happens to be McDavid where the Sabres like to stick 3rd and 4th line forwards on their top line and expect the stars to carry them like a Crosby/McDavid. Heck they left Eichel with Pominville for hell of a long time who couldn't produce without him at all.

A lesser role? Couturier was playing shutdown minutes against the leagues best players - Malkin, Tavares, etc, and was outscoring them at 5v5 whwn he was 19. And he was also playing with 4th liners, much like you allege about ROR this year. His TOI doesnt really matter. He was always given the heavy matchups and almost always got the best of who he was up against.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to get at. Couturier is a great player. Flyers fans have seen it in the making for years, the rest of the league finally saw it this year. ROR is still a great player, but obviously he had better seasons in Colorado when playing with better players.

 

[Appleyard]

Couturier was already a 5v5 beast (better than O'Reilly) for two seasons before this one.



Better in every category with virtually identical minutes in terms of QoC and ZSR.

And going off the stats over that period O'Reilly had better QoT.

ROR: 50.52 CF QoT, 29.6 TOI QoT
Couturier: 50.22 CF QoT, 29.31 TOI QoT

 

[truthbluth]

Frost ++ or no deal.

 

[Starat327]

Couturier was already a 5v5 beast (better than O'Reilly) for two seasons before this one.



Better in every category with virtually identical minutes in terms of QoC and ZSR.

And going off the stats over that period O'Reilly had better QoT.

ROR: 50.52 CF QoT, 29.6 TOI QoT
Couturier: 50.22 CF QoT, 29.31 TOI QoT

Love that we can rely on you for the statistical pieces that the rest of us dont understand. Enjoying your stuff on the athletic as well!

 

[SnS]

Frost ++ or no deal.

No deal is perfect for me.

 

[truthbluth]

No deal is perfect for me.

Me too

 

[SnS]

Me too

I’m of the opinion we aren’t one player away from making a deep run.

We have 3 good defenders, 2 shit defenders and 1 neutered defender. And we have frick and frack as our goalies.

We need to add defense and get the goalie situation figured out before making a splash for another forward, imo.

 

[truthbluth]

I’m of the opinion we aren’t one player away from making a deep run.

We have 3 good defenders, 2 **** defenders and 1 neutered defender. And we have frick and frack as our goalies.

We need to add defense and get the goalie situation figured out before making a splash for another forward, imo.

So, when I look at Philly's roster and org depth chart, O'Reilly doesn't make a lick of sense based on his cost. But I don't follow the Flyers that closely. Ristolainen on the other hand....
But the Sabres would need to acquire a replacement RHD first.