Erik Karlsson (Part 7)

[one2gamble]

Good point in that Jumbo didn't seem to have this problem.

I actually think he did have this issue during some points of his sharks tenure.

Also, jumbo usually passed across or from I'm front of you. Karl is leading you. It is a harder play to make

 

[Mafoofoo]

I actually think he did have this issue during some points of his sharks tenure.

Also, jumbo usually passed across or from I'm front of you. Karl is leading you. It is a harder play to make

I don’t ever recall Jumbo struggling like Karlsson has in San Jose.

Also for all the lack of talent excuses for Karlsson, Burns has as many assists as Karlsson has points.

Why is Burns able to score?

 

[one2gamble]

I don’t ever recall Jumbo struggling like Karlsson has in San Jose.

Also for all the lack of talent excuses for Karlsson, Burns has as many assists as Karlsson has points.

Why is Burns able to score?

I'm not making excuses. I think prime jumbo was better than prime karl , I am just saying there are a lot of bobbled pucks or lack of readiness from sharks forwards right now. Jumbo basically hit players with pucks and they went in. Karl is hitting moving players at speed who don't seem ready for the pass. That doesn't mean he's playing well, it's just a different game.

Burns gets points differently. He's not really getting these points on the rush. He's also more of the trigger on the pp and in the zone.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I actually think he did have this issue during some points of his sharks tenure.

Also, jumbo usually passed across or from I'm front of you. Karl is leading you. It is a harder play to make

I'm not making excuses. I think prime jumbo was better than prime karl , I am just saying there are a lot of bobbled pucks or lack of readiness from sharks forwards right now. Jumbo basically hit players with pucks and they went in. Karl is hitting moving players at speed who don't seem ready for the pass. That doesn't mean he's playing well, it's just a different game.

Burns gets points differently. He's not really getting these points on the rush. He's also more of the trigger on the pp and in the zone.

You are making excuses. Elite players (getting paid like elite players) need to be elite on a boat, on a goat, in a box, with a fox, here or there, and anywhere!

Karlsson's lack of explosiveness, his poor decision-making, and his bad pivoting are all on him. If it is really true that the forwards are just too incompetent to receive his brilliant passes, then it's on him to modify his game. Plus, while it is true that he's always been known for being a deadly transition player, he was also known as a lethal powerplay quarterback and zone manager. That hasn't manifested into points.

 

[hohosaregood]

He was better with the groin injury than he is right now so I don't think the lack of explosiveness and pivoting are inherent problems for Karlsson right now. Definitely the poor decision making though.

 

[Alwalys]

You are making excuses. Elite players (getting paid like elite players) need to be elite on a boat, on a goat, in a box, with a fox, here or there, and anywhere!

Karlsson's lack of explosiveness, his poor decision-making, and his bad pivoting are all on him. If it is really true that the forwards are just too incompetent to receive his brilliant passes, then it's on him to modify his game. Plus, while it is true that he's always been known for being a deadly transition player, he was also known as a lethal powerplay quarterback and zone manager. That hasn't manifested into points.

While he is not as explosive as he was at his peak he is absolutely explosive and definitely the most explosive player on the team. His agility, puckhandling, and passing are unmatched by a country mile and he regularly springs out of the zone leaving both teams in the dust. The team both hasn't figured out how to maximize the value of his play and doesn't have enough players that can keep up with him. Since he can no longer do it all himself, he needs that to succeed.

Thornton was similar, he was trending downward as his ability to carry the team declined. He didn't suddenly put up 80 points well past his prime on his own merits. Hertl and Pavelski (and Burns) being able to play off him had a LOT to do with that.

 

[Mafoofoo]

We’re paying Karlsson to carry this team and be the best player on the roster.

So far he’s failed in that regard.

-Kane is the best player on the roster this year
-Ferraro is better on defense
-Burns leads the defense in scoring

So far Karlsson shouldn’t even be in the same breath as Jumbo, as Jumbo was able to carry the team and make players around him better.

 

[Alwalys]

We’re paying Karlsson to carry this team and be the best player on the roster.

So far he’s failed in that regard.

-Kane is the best player on the roster this year
-Ferraro is better on defense
-Burns leads the defense in scoring

So far Karlsson shouldn’t even be in the same breath as Jumbo, as Jumbo was able to carry the team and make players around him better.

He is paid to be the best player on the team which he is. Jumbo was a different player in a different era, in a different league. In the current league Jumbo's style is decreasing in effectiveness. Some might even say his style was specifically countered against.

- Kane has better counting stats, but he is clearly not the better player. Lest we forget, Karlsson is a defenseman.
- Ferraro, speaking of players that should not be in the same breath. Love the guy but he's not someone who can be compared to Karlsson in any way.
- Burns is a brute-force player which is more compatible with the current team style and skill level. You can see a lot of Karlsson's playmaking is going for naught.

There are only a handful of truly elite players in the league now that can drag a whole team the way Thornton did back in the day, and none of them are defensemen.

Playmaking today requires complementary pieces with speed and puck skills, something our team-at-large lacks compared to other teams in the league.

 

[jarr92]

He is paid to be the best player on the team which he is. Jumbo was a different player in a different era, in a different league. In the current league Jumbo's style is decreasing in effectiveness. Some might even say his style was specifically countered against.

- Kane has better counting stats, but he is clearly not the better player. Lest we forget, Karlsson is a defenseman.
- Ferraro, speaking of players that should not be in the same breath. Love the guy but he's not someone who can be compared to Karlsson in any way.
- Burns is a brute-force player which is more compatible with the current team style and skill level. You can see a lot of Karlsson's playmaking is going for naught.

There are only a handful of truly elite players in the league now that can drag a whole team the way Thornton did back in the day, and none of them are defensemen.

Playmaking today requires complementary pieces with speed and puck skills, something our team-at-large lacks compared to other teams in the league.

I'd love to see your underlying stats proving Karlsson has been the team's best player, clearly better than Kane this season, as well as proving Ferraro isn't even close to EK65.

If you look at Karlsson's xGF% (expected goal percentage), SCF% (scoring chance percentage), HDCF% (high danger scoring chance percentage) Karlsson has basically been the worst player on the Sharks still getting consistent minutes. This is all while getting the most offensive deployment of anyone in the top 6.

If you don't believe me look up the analytics yourself or I can post them. Historically Karlsson has been good to great in all of those areas (and amazing his first year in SJ), so it makes it pretty obvious how far his play has fallen this year.

That's why blaming his teammates or saying things like "no defenseman can truly carry a team" are just excuses for Karlsson's poor play. He absolutely can carry a team, and has in the past, but he isn't at the moment.

 

[Lebanezer]

Karlsson is definitely having a bad year.

 

[hohosaregood]

For me, the most disappointing thing about Karlsson this year is his puckhandling. For someone known to be one of the smoothest and most creative players in the league, he can't stickhandle for shit anymore. That broken thumb or whatever has f***ed him up.

 

[tiburon12]

For me, the most disappointing thing about Karlsson this year is his puckhandling. For someone known to be one of the smoothest and most creative players in the league, he can't stickhandle for shit anymore. That broken thumb or whatever has f***ed him up.

No way, he stick handles himself out of trouble all the time. Tonight, for example, Arizona was smart to play really aggressive on him. On that late game PP where Brett derided Karlsson for trying too much, he had two guys on him with no options to pass, twice.

 

[Alwalys]

I'd love to see your underlying stats proving Karlsson has been the team's best player, clearly better than Kane this season, as well as proving Ferraro isn't even close to EK65.

If you look at Karlsson's xGF% (expected goal percentage), SCF% (scoring chance percentage), HDCF% (high danger scoring chance percentage) Karlsson has basically been the worst player on the Sharks still getting consistent minutes. This is all while getting the most offensive deployment of anyone in the top 6.

If you don't believe me look up the analytics yourself or I can post them. Historically Karlsson has been good to great in all of those areas (and amazing his first year in SJ), so it makes it pretty obvious how far his play has fallen this year.

That's why blaming his teammates or saying things like "no defenseman can truly carry a team" are just excuses for Karlsson's poor play. He absolutely can carry a team, and has in the past, but he isn't at the moment.

I won't dispute that he's having a bad statistical year, it happens. The skill he exhibits on the ice is obviously a level above everyone else on the team, and IMO it shows more this year than any year previous. He's often doing his own thing and there is no one else really meshing with his vision of what the play is. It's likely because the rest of the team has so much less skill on balance than previous years, yet the system is not built around him ala Ottawa. He's also been playing with a rookie all year, and not the better one; Burns has the best partner right now.

I think this is a bit of a transition year for the team in terms of playstyle. The coach is going to have to figure out how to employ their best player a bit more, but he should probably have a better partner as well. We have two #1 D men, a low-end #4 and a bunch of 5-6-AHLers.

 

[tiburon12]

I won't dispute that he's having a bad statistical year, it happens. The skill he exhibits on the ice is obviously a level above everyone else on the team, and IMO it shows more this year than any year previous. He's often doing his own thing and there is no one else really meshing with his vision of what the play is. It's likely because the rest of the team has so much less skill on balance, yet the system is not built around him ala Ottawa. He's also been playing with a rookie all year, and not the better one; Burns has the best partner right now.

I think this is a bit of a transition year for the team in terms of playstyle. The coach is going to have to figure out how to employ their best player a bit more, but he should probably have a better partner as well. We have two #1 D men, a low-end #4 and a bunch of 5-6-AHLers.

or the coach has to go. We have an elite PMD with exceptional ability to lead breakouts in Karlsson, an elite play driver and rush player in Kane, and a set of young speedy wingers in Leonard and Gregor and Meier and Balcers (among others) who can create off the rush.

Right now the breakout is so bad it's wasting talent. We lament that Meier does nothing when he has the puck, but many times he gets a long breakout pass and has 0 support. Karlsson also does the same by leading a rush and having no one to pass to. To me that's a systems failure that starts with how the Sharks approach breaking the puck out and leading an attack. That's a coach issue right there

 

[Alwalys]

or the coach has to go. We have an elite PMD with exceptional ability to lead breakouts in Karlsson, an elite play driver and rush player in Kane, and a set of young speedy wingers in Leonard and Gregor and Meier and Balcers (among others) who can create off the rush.

Right now the breakout is so bad it's wasting talent. We lament that Meier does nothing when he has the puck, but many times he gets a long breakout pass and has 0 support. Karlsson also does the same by leading a rush and having no one to pass to. To me that's a systems failure that starts with how the Sharks approach breaking the puck out and leading an attack. That's a coach issue right there

agree.

karlsson has almost supernatural ability to gain the zone with control even with players right in his face. yet how the hell is that not turning into good transition offense?

 

[hagg18]

Maybe a stupid question, but I’ll ask it anyway...

With sharks limited capspace, Karlssons expensive contract and failure to live up to the high expectations, is it possible that he waives his nmc and go to Seattle in the expansion? Seattle is one of fel teams that have the needed capspace and they get a talented player that hopefully can region his former status as a star. EK gets a fresh start and sharks get well needed capspace going forward.

Thoughts on this?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Maybe a stupid question, but I’ll ask it anyway...

With sharks limited capspace, Karlssons expensive contract and failure to live up to the high expectations, is it possible that he waives his nmc and go to Seattle in the expansion? Seattle is one of fel teams that have the needed capspace and they get a talented player that hopefully can region his former status as a star. EK gets a fresh start and sharks get well needed capspace going forward.

Thoughts on this?

Doubt any of the three parties would be interested.

 

[Friday]

We're definitely stuck with Karl until the cap starts moving up again and maybe at that point the Sharks could retain 2M per for like 4 years and get him out haha

 

[Mafoofoo]

I won't dispute that he's having a bad statistical year, it happens. The skill he exhibits on the ice is obviously a level above everyone else on the team, and IMO it shows more this year than any year previous. He's often doing his own thing and there is no one else really meshing with his vision of what the play is. It's likely because the rest of the team has so much less skill on balance than previous years, yet the system is not built around him ala Ottawa. He's also been playing with a rookie all year, and not the better one; Burns has the best partner right now.

I think this is a bit of a transition year for the team in terms of playstyle. The coach is going to have to figure out how to employ their best player a bit more, but he should probably have a better partner as well. We have two #1 D men, a low-end #4 and a bunch of 5-6-AHLers.

This seems a bit absurd. It’s everyone’s fault but EK’s that he sucks this year?

Nah, if he needs this much coddling and support, then why are we paying him so much?

May as well have just rolled with Burns and used Karlssons cap space to beef up the roster on defense and offense.

Though it is weird that you post this praise of EK then call him a low end #4 since Burns and Ferraro are clearly the two #1s

 

[Cas]

Karlsson seems to have slowed down the last few weeks - he's not blowing by defenders as often and he's not backchecking as effectively. Immediately after coming back from a few games off, Karlsson was fast and also probably the Sharks' best defenseman at shutting down rush chances against (he was accelerating quickly, checking effectively, and using his stick well), although by the nature of his play he did tend to allow more rush chances past him, but that seems to have disappeared over the last few weeks.

 

[Friday]

Karlsson seems to have slowed down the last few weeks - he's not blowing by defenders as often and he's not backchecking as effectively. Immediately after coming back from a few games off, Karlsson was fast and also probably the Sharks' best defenseman at shutting down rush chances against (he was accelerating quickly, checking effectively, and using his stick well), although by the nature of his play he did tend to allow more rush chances past him, but that seems to have disappeared over the last few weeks.

Being a team player with the tank. Ima fan

 

[Alwalys]

This seems a bit absurd. It’s everyone’s fault but EK’s that he sucks this year?

Nah, if he needs this much coddling and support, then why are we paying him so much?

May as well have just rolled with Burns and used Karlssons cap space to beef up the roster on defense and offense.

Though it is weird that you post this praise of EK then call him a low end #4 since Burns and Ferraro are clearly the two #1s

we are paying him so much because he was an elite UFA. same reason we would have paid tavares even more despite him not being crosby or mcdavid.

 

[Alwalys]

So in retrospect this season, We played karlsson with Nik Knyzhov pretty much all the way through. What were we expecting to come out of that? Even in Ottawa he couldn't carry a green rookie with middling skills.

If we want anything like Norris level results from him we absolutely need a better partner for him. He needs his Paul Martin equivalent. A solid predictable veteran top 4 that doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

 

[thrillermiller89]

So in retrospect this season, We played karlsson with Nik Knyzhov pretty much all the way through. What were we expecting to come out of that? Even in Ottawa he couldn't carry a green rookie with middling skills.

If we want anything like Norris level results from him we absolutely need a better partner for him. He needs his Paul Martin equivalent. A solid predictable veteran top 4 that doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

For years his best partner was Methot, a stay at home hitting type. We used to have that in Dillon. EK65 needs a partner that can help stabilize the D zone so that he can play more free and loose (at his best).

 

[AlphaPred]

The blame needs to be placed on Doug Wilson more than anyone. Yes, Karlsson isn’t playing anywhere close to his contract at the moment but that’s one of 15 reasons why the team has regressed. There are a lot of holes and a lot of bad contracts. That falls on the front office.

I honestly don’t think he’s a bad as some make him out to be but he’s clearly lost a step due to injuries but there are still flashes of brilliance which makes him so frustrating to watch.