Erik Karlsson (Part 7)

[Chabot84]

I would say that Mark Stone disagrees with that statement.

The same thing might be an issue with the upcoming draft and all of the Michigan players. Can they stand on their own in the NHL and reach their potentials per the scouting talk?

Yeah started breaking out after Karlsson took the reigns, he’s a gem for sure. Karl still quarterbacked the offense though, our whole system was designed to compliment his style.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Yeah started breaking out after Karlsson took the reigns, he’s a gem for sure. Karl still quarterbacked the offense though, our whole system was designed to compliment his style.

Stone once said he was constantly in awe of Karlsson's vision/passing - and that it seemed like he saw the game from above, instead of from the ice.

But even in Ottawa only Alfie, Spezza and to an extent Stone, had the hockey IQ to be able to handle his passes and plays.

Not sure anyone in SJ can.

 

[Mafoofoo]

I’m pretty sure some of the roster is used to catching passes from Joe freaking Thornton.

So unless Karlsson is that shitty that he can’t adjust and elevate lower skilled players that isn’t the reason for his lack of production.

 

[stator]

I’m pretty sure some of the roster is used to catching passes from Joe freaking Thornton.

So unless Karlsson is that shitty that he can’t adjust and elevate lower skilled players that isn’t the reason for his lack of production.

Good point in that Jumbo didn't seem to have this problem.

 

[Groo]

Stone once said he was constantly in awe of Karlsson's vision/passing - and that it seemed like he saw the game from above, instead of from the ice.

But even in Ottawa only Alfie, Spezza and to an extent Stone, had the hockey IQ to be able to handle his passes and plays.

Not sure anyone in SJ can.

WTF?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I’m pretty sure some of the roster is used to catching passes from Joe freaking Thornton.

So unless Karlsson is that shitty that he can’t adjust and elevate lower skilled players that isn’t the reason for his lack of production.

I can see the difference. Even if the base vision is equal between Thornton and Karlsson, the way you tend to receive a pass from Karlsson is different than when you tend to receive a pass from Thornton but it shouldn't be that much of an adjustment. Karlsson, if anything, is tougher because his vision and his passes tend to come in transition rather than from down low or the side wall in the attacking zone.

 

[Gecklund]

I can see the difference. Even if the base vision is equal between Thornton and Karlsson, the way you tend to receive a pass from Karlsson is different than when you tend to receive a pass from Thornton but it shouldn't be that much of an adjustment. Karlsson, if anything, is tougher because his vision and his passes tend to come in transition rather than from down low or the side wall in the attacking zone.

I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s the timing of the passes. With Jumbo, it was normally in the offensive zone. With EK it’s more transition. Also thinking about this more, other than Hertl, who was regularly on a line with Jumbo that’s still here. Maybe Labanc a little bit but he wasn’t good with Jumbo either. Couture, Kane, and Timo didn’t spend much time with him. Sorensen is garbage all around. Gambrell was bad with Jumbo. Yeah you got the power play where a few of these guys played with Jumbo but I feel like that’s a different beast.

 

[Barrie22]

I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s the timing of the passes. With Jumbo, it was normally in the offensive zone. With EK it’s more transition. Also thinking about this more, other than Hertl, who was regularly on a line with Jumbo that’s still here. Maybe Labanc a little bit but he wasn’t good with Jumbo either. Couture, Kane, and Timo didn’t spend much time with him. Sorensen is garbage all around. Gambrell was bad with Jumbo. Yeah you got the power play where a few of these guys played with Jumbo but I feel like that’s a different beast.

And on the power play most of the awe dropping passes from thornton did not go to the players he did not normally play with also.

Just think about a lot of thorntons wtf passss, they were mostly to players that would be going below the low slot, so players like hertl, pavelski. Couture and kane for the amount of time spent with thornton on the pp were never those going low into the slot they always stayed high on the corners of the slot.

 

[Jargon]

And by the way, when Thornton first came here I remember a whole segment where players talked about the fact that only a few people could receive a Joe pass, especially for a one-timer. It’s why Cheechoo and Joe worked so well together, Cheech, for all the criticism he gets, could shoot the puck.

 

[Barrie22]

And by the way, when Thornton first came here I remember a whole segment where players talked about the fact that only a few people could receive a Joe pass, especially for a one-timer. It’s why Cheechoo and Joe worked so well together, Cheech, for all the criticism he gets, could shoot the puck.

And knew his role, that is a key component to working with people like thornton and karlsson, or gretzky and crosby. Is knowing that to have them be there best just get open, get to the spots and they will do all the work.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

WTF?

What are you WTF:ing?

 

[Jargon]

And knew his role, that is a key component to working with people like thornton and karlsson, or gretzky and crosby. Is knowing that to have them be there best just get open, get to the spots and they will do all the work.

Yeah, agreed.

the other thing I keep noticing is Ottawa fans mentioning that their entire system was built around Karlsson. Well, when Joe came here, our system was built around him too. When our team is this bad, it’s not a terrible idea to consider.

 

[jarr92]

What are you WTF:ing?

Not the OP, but the argument of "he is so good that other players can't handle it" seems like a bit of an excuse. Unfortunately for the Sharks, pretty much all of his underlying stats are worse this year.

 

[hohosaregood]

What's crazy is that he's playing worse than when he tore his groin.

 

[Lebanezer]

What's crazy is that he's playing worse than when he tore his groin.

He looks mentally fatigued. I think he, Burns, Couture and Hertl don’t think the team is good enough to compete. Their play, body language and lack of passion seem to indicate they’re checked out. Of course I’m just speculating, but I think the leadership is failing big time. Younger players don’t need to see the teams best players checking out. It teaches them that it’s okay to lower their expectations and that failure is no big deal.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Look at some of his comments. Saying that Marleau is impressive, especially in an environment where some players are cheating and not dedicating themselves; isn't that a dig at his teammates?

Saying that the league is getting faster and faster, and that players's primes are getting younger and younger; isn't that an admission that his best days are beyond him?

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Look at some of his comments. Saying that Marleau is impressive, especially in an environment where some players are cheating and not dedicating themselves; isn't that a dig at his teammates?

Saying that the league is getting faster and faster, and that players's primes are getting younger and younger; isn't that an admission that his best days are beyond him?

Anyone can see that he's nowhere near his prime years.

I bet he would still be decently dominant on half the other teams in the NHL.

 

[Kat Predator]

Anyone can see that he's nowhere near his prime years.

I bet he would still be decently dominant on half the other teams in the NHL.

That's a backhanded compliment. Putting any average player on a more talented roster should make him look better.

Contrastingly, a truly dominant player elevates the game of all the misfits on whatever island he's on.

 

[stator]

That's a backhanded compliment. Putting any average player on a more talented roster should make him look better.

Contrastingly, a truly dominant player elevates the game of all the misfits on whatever island he's on.

Good point, but the EK65 fans are going to ignore that.

Karlsson is a bad fit on the Sharks team. They will never run their offense for Karlsson like Ottawa did. That puts more pressure on him to do well on defensive plays which is not his forte.

Couple that with Vlasic decline without a guy like Braun, and Burns not being noted for his defensive plays, this team's defense sucks even though it's the highest paid in the league.

Karlsson would be better off on another team that's a better fit, but with his contract, I don't see him going anywhere.

 

[Lebanezer]

Karlsson isn't a bad fit on the Sharks, the Sharks are a bad team. If they had more talent there would be more threats, which would open up space for Karlsson. Instead every opponent knows who to target on the Sharks to shut them down almost completely. Karlsson, Burns and Hertl. The rest of the team may score from time to time, but no one needs to game plan to shut down Couture, Meier, Labanc etc. etc. Those guys are wildly inconsistent and don't drive play or create scoring chances regularly.

The most positive takeaway from this season has to be Balcers, because he's shown flashes of skill, excelled at takeaways and generated chances better than practically every other forward.

 

[tealzamboni]

Karlsson isn't a bad fit on the Sharks, the Sharks are a bad team. If they had more talent there would be more threats, which would open up space for Karlsson. Instead every opponent knows who to target on the Sharks to shut them down almost completely. Karlsson, Burns and Hertl. The rest of the team may score from time to time, but no one needs to game plan to shut down Couture, Meier, Labanc etc. etc. Those guys are wildly inconsistent and don't drive play or create scoring chances regularly.

The most positive takeaway from this season has to be Balcers, because he's shown flashes of skill, excelled at takeaways and generated chances better than practically every other forward.

How dare you. The Sharks are really talented at this

Karlsson's just got to dominate and drive play like the guy in the jeans

 

[Mafoofoo]

Gotcha so in order for Karlsson to do something other than watch pucks go in the net behind him he needs a ton of help and skilled players/high end talent.


Why the f*** did he get that contract then?

 

[Lebanezer]

Gotcha so in order for Karlsson to do something other than watch pucks go in the net behind him he needs a ton of help and skilled players/high end talent.


Why the f*** did he get that contract then?

That’s quite the oversimplification.

 

[Alwalys]

Not sure anyone in SJ can.

Hertl can, Kane can sometimes. That's it.

 

[Karl Prime]

To the question of whether a player benefits from playing with better players, of course. If Karlsson and Barrie switched teams this season their numbers wouldn't be the same as they currently are. Karl in his prime dominated with no superstar forward, but I'd say Hoffman, Stone, Ryan, and Turris suited his skillset more and Ottawa played a far superior passing game than these Sharks. The lack of talent up front is part of the reason his numbers are low but I think Boughner's system plays more of a role. Karlsson is still a gifted passer, he still knows what he's doing in the offensive zone, how to find open guys and generate scoring chances. After watching this team for four months it feels like the D don't play a great role in the offense beyond making breakout passes and getting shots toward goal (or attempting to). It's behind the goal-line oriented, with the "pucks in deep" and relying on the forwards to win it back to create a cycle. There's hardly any rush offense that they don't find accidentally. We've seen many times Karl join the rush and he doesn't get the pass. Or when he does, and it ends up in nothing because there's no available pass.

With more luck with posts and missed grade A chances Erik could have 29 points instead of 19. It's mind-boggling that last season, where he wasn't that great offensively, he put up .61 assists per game and this season it's less than 1 in 3 - and I don't think he's been any worse offensively this season. I think he's doing more things he wasn't doing last year. At least in the last two months this season he's scoring at the pace he did in his prime. I have a hard time believing he won't have something like 12-40-52 next season because surely there has to be some regression to the norm.