Erik Karlsson (Part 7)

[tealzamboni]

Burns stuck up for Ferraro last night. He didn't actually fight but he did get involved in the scrum. Started it if memory serves.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned generally. I think he just pulled a guy away to keep the peace and let Ferraro duke it out man to man with Marchessault. Burns and the other guy tripped and fell, but the other guy soon realized Burns wasn't doing it out of malice.

 

[slocal]

Yeah, that's why I mentioned generally. I think he just pulled a guy away to keep the peace and let Ferraro duke it out man to man with Marchessault. Burns and the other guy tripped and fell, but the other guy soon realized Burns wasn't doing it out of malice.

Yeah, I didn't see it that way at all. Burns came in hot.

 

[Groo]

Trade Couture at the TDL then just give EK65 the C and all the baggage that comes with it

OH HELL NO!

 

[Pavelski2112]

OH HELL NO!

You do know that EK has captained teams before, right? And one of those years he led a questionable Sens team to one goal away from going to the Cup Finals, while scoring almost PPG with a broken heel.

 

[Groo]

You do know that EK has captained teams before, right? And one of those years he led a questionable Sens team to one goal away from going to the Cup Finals, while scoring almost PPG with a broken heel.

Yes I know.
So what.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Yes I know.
So what.

I mean, if anyone's proven he can captain a team, especially one with questionable depth, it's him. Couture doesn't seem like a terrible captain, but oftentimes it feels like he's not the best guy for the job.

 

[fasterthanlight]

We're kind-of all-in on Karlsson, tbh, given his contract. Might as well lean-in IMO, if Couture ever gets traded and/or becomes a non-captain for some other reason.

 

[Karl Prime]

We're kind-of all-in on Karlsson, tbh, given his contract. Might as well lean-in IMO, if Couture ever gets traded and/or becomes a non-captain for some other reason.

I think Couture being Captain is fine. However, the team's identity has to be built around Karlsson's skillset. I don't think that's happening now, but at least since he returned to the lineup he's been joining the rush more and creating from all areas of the ice. Whether or not that's an intentional change or just Erik being able to move to his capabilities, we don't know. I'm guessing the latter.

 

[tiburon12]

I think Couture being Captain is fine. However, the team's identity has to be built around Karlsson's skillset. I don't think that's happening now, but at least since he returned to the lineup he's been joining the rush more and creating from all areas of the ice. Whether or not that's an intentional change or just Erik being able to move to his capabilities, we don't know. I'm guessing the latter.

I've been so frustrated seeing him join the rush and get open only to have the forward not even look his direction.

If I'm frustrated, I'm sure he is too! Like, yo u want production from him? Get him involved!

 

[Anomie2029]

I've been so frustrated seeing him join the rush and get open only to have the forward not even look his direction.

If I'm frustrated, I'm sure he is too! Like, yo u want production from him? Get him involved!

He got frustrated recently when he joined the rush, fed it to Donato, who then could have fed it back to Karlsson in the slot after making the goalie move - instead Donato took a low percentage shot.

I have no doubts the fan base issues with Karlsson stem from a couple of things:

• Being perceived to be the reason that Pavs left
• Being injured fairly regularly
• Not starting the last couple of seasons strong
• Not being American or Canadian, so he isn't a "good ol' boy"
• Certain SJ Podcasters irrationally hating him and criticizing him non-stop.

 

[TheBeard]

He got frustrated recently when he joined the rush, fed it to Donato, who then could have fed it back to Karlsson in the slot after making the goalie move - instead Donato took a low percentage shot.

I have no doubts the fan base issues with Karlsson stem from a couple of things:

• Being perceived to be the reason that Pavs left
• Being injured fairly regularly
• Not starting the last couple of seasons strong
• Not being American or Canadian, so he isn't a "good ol' boy"
• Certain SJ Podcasters irrationally hating him and criticizing him non-stop.

My issues stem from he's been in a Sharks uniform for basically 2 and a half seasons now and with the exception of a handful of games he's never resembled anything close to an 11.5 D-man. Now that may no fault of his seeing as how, in my opinion, if you're going to give out the largest contract for a defenceman by a wide margin, that guy better be elite at both ends of the ice. Ray Bourque in his prime. Lidstrom 2.0. You get my point.

 

[Karl Prime]

I've been so frustrated seeing him join the rush and get open only to have the forward not even look his direction.

If I'm frustrated, I'm sure he is too! Like, yo u want production from him? Get him involved!

There was a play last night where the puck went behind the net to Leonard and Karl had made his way down to the right faceoff circle and was open, but he didn't get the pass and then Leonard tried to bank it to the other point but got intercepted. Now, John is a rookie so I can give him a pass but there's been too many times as you say where he's not being fed in a good position. A few games ago Hertl made a great pass and he had a 1-on-1 with the goalie, and it happened early in a game before that where Balcers I think got him in 1-on-1. Those are two examples of dangerous chances where they did find him and they must do more of it to be effective offensively when he's out there.

 

[tiburon12]

My issues stem from he's been in a Sharks uniform for basically 2 and a half seasons now and with the exception of a handful of games he's never resembled anything close to an 11.5 D-man. Now that may no fault of his seeing as how, in my opinion, if you're going to give out the largest contract for a defenceman by a wide margin, that guy better be elite at both ends of the ice. Ray Bourque in his prime. Lidstrom 2.0. You get my point.

Yes but you can attribute that to a few things. Note these don't excuse playing under 11.5MM value, but rather explain.

19-20 season started with him not have time to train properly + having a child. Emotionally that was probably huge for him so its acceptable that his mind was probably away from the game. Then you factor in actually having to deal with a newborn and how lifestyles change. Then he got hurt.

This season he was bad, hurt, and now much better. Is he playing 11.5MM level? no. but its not binary elite / 0-sum. Of late he's been a net positive on the ice and controlling play.

We can both accept the contract is an overpayment while also acknowledging he is one of the best players on the team, some nights the best. And we can also hope he keeps trending up

 

[TheBeard]

We can both accept the contract is an overpayment while also acknowledging he is one of the best players on the team, some nights the best. And we can also hope he keeps trending up

At 30 (31?) it’s hard to see him trending up, at least for more than the rest of this lost season. That’s the other aspect that kills me, it’s not the money but the term. The reality is we bought high with the assumption of being in win now mode and paying the price later. I blame Wilson mostly for this contract and EK would have been stupid not to sign it. But with great money comes great accountability and he’ll be a focal point of our demise for years to come, deserved or not. It’s like celebrities complaining about being recognized. It comes with the territory.

 

[Herschel]

At 30 (31?) it’s hard to see him trending up, at least for more than the rest of this lost season. That’s the other aspect that kills me, it’s not the money but the term. The reality is we bought high with the assumption of being in win now mode and paying the price later. I blame Wilson mostly for this contract and EK would have been stupid not to sign it. But with great money comes great accountability and he’ll be a focal point of our demise for years to come, deserved or not. It’s like celebrities complaining about being recognized. It comes with the territory.

I don't think there is any reason he can't continue to carry a top 4 pairing for the next 3-4 seasons. I also think if Knyzhov matures similar to Ferraro it will only improve Karlsson's impact. Alternatively, they could seek out an ideal partner for him if Knyzhov stalls in his development.

 

[TheBeard]

I don't think there is any reason he can't continue to carry a top 4 pairing for the next 3-4 seasons. I also think if Knyzhov matures similar to Ferraro it will only improve Karlsson's impact. Alternatively, they could seek out an ideal partner for him if Knyzhov stalls in his development.

I can think of plenty of reasons. Age, wear and tear from injuries, the injuries themselves. My opinion would obviously change if he can stay healthy for a long stretch but until that happens I’m always convinced something is about to go wrong. I also think you’re correct in the development of the younger guys which certainly helps, but we’re asking for a lot of things to go right.

 

[Herschel]

I can think of plenty of reasons. Age, wear and tear from injuries, the injuries themselves. My opinion would obviously change if he can stay healthy for a long stretch but until that happens I’m always convinced something is about to go wrong. I also think you’re correct in the development of the younger guys which certainly helps, but we’re asking for a lot of things to go right.

That's fair and I would likely have had a more pessimistic viewpoint at the beginning of the season.

 

[TheBeard]

That's fair and I would likely have had a more pessimistic viewpoint at the beginning of the season.

Right now any renewed optimism by certain players (Leonard, EK recently) is negated by my opinions of Boughner. I thought he was a decent choice but now he’s almost in Ralph Krueger territory.

 

[Mafoofoo]

He got frustrated recently when he joined the rush, fed it to Donato, who then could have fed it back to Karlsson in the slot after making the goalie move - instead Donato took a low percentage shot.

I have no doubts the fan base issues with Karlsson stem from a couple of things:

• Being perceived to be the reason that Pavs left
• Being injured fairly regularly
• Not starting the last couple of seasons strong
• Not being American or Canadian, so he isn't a "good ol' boy"
• Certain SJ Podcasters irrationally hating him and criticizing him non-stop.

I don’t think so. This a fan base that loved players like Nabby, Ozolinsh, Sundstrom, Sturm, etc

 

[sharski]

apparently not the xenophobic part of the fan base that only likes good ol boys

 

[Karl Prime]

I know I've talked about it before, but it's just weird what's going on with Karlsson's game and the way his role seems to be different than it was with Ottawa when he was "the" guy, "the" system. He's doing everything you'd want him to do the last three weeks - competing hard defensively, good breakout passes, skating the puck up, being more mobile and dangerous in the offensive zone, joining the rush .... and yet rarely whenever he joins the rush does he get a pass, despite being the best playmaker on the team. Star players want the puck, all of them. Erik bursting up when he sees an opening is his way of saying "I see a chance, give it to me when I'm open and I'll make it happen."

Doug Wilson traded and then signed Erik because he's such a dangerous offensive weapon. He's supposed to be the #1 guy on the team, but sometimes it feels like his role is "Brian Rafalski 2021." His effectiveness on the rush is part of what makes him amazing and though he doesn't have the same explosiveness anymore his vision and creativity still wreak havoc. It's one thing if he's not being mobile and getting up ice like earlier in the season but now that he's doing it a few times a game they'd be wise to take advantage.

Anyways, mini rant over. At least we're at a point now where we're talking about Erik getting up ice and being dangerous and mobile. Two months ago almost everyone here thought he'd never be able to be that kind of guy again -- including me at one stage, as optimistic as I am.

 

[fasterthanlight]

I mean, what have we got to lose? Probably should make an entirely new system from scratch around ek.

 

[Karl Prime]

I mean, what have we got to lose? Probably should make an entirely new system from scratch around ek.

Pretty tough to do when the team isn't good at passing, holding onto the puck, making plays, or generating much in the way of transition.

 

[jarr92]

Pretty tough to do when the team isn't good at passing, holding onto the puck, making plays, or generating much in the way of transition.

At some point, you just have to look at the statistics and realize the 11.5m offensive dman has 10 points half way through the season.

 

[stator]

At some point, you just have to look at the statistics and realize the 11.5m offensive dman has 10 points half way through the season.

Even Doughty has 25 points. Plus Farraro has the same number of points as EK65.

Bad contract, bad trade. I was hoping DW wouldn't sign EK65 and keep the 1st round pick, but someone here pointed out back then that the 1st round pick was guaranteed. DW has been foolish with contracts in these past years. He needs to go.