Erik Karlsson (Part 7)

[Danvilleshark]

Pretty much. It's more the fact that Pavelski was about to turn 35 and a long-term contract for an aging player who was clearly going to decline was a bad idea.

Easy to say this now after the fact of course but a three year deal is looking like a good contract now.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Easy to say this now after the fact of course but a three year deal is looking like a good contract now.

Joe scored less than 35 points last year. Dallas got hot in the playoffs but lost, and now they're a bottom-10 team. Pavs is having a great year but he's shooting way over his career average percentage, which is not sustainable. I think he's a great leader for sure, but he's not some missing piece that this team needed to be a perennial contender again; we're way past that point now.

 

[Cas]

Joe scored less than 35 points last year. Dallas got hot in the playoffs but lost, and now they're a bottom-10 team. Pavs is having a great year but he's shooting way over his career average percentage, which is not sustainable. I think he's a great leader for sure, but he's not some missing piece that this team needed to be a perennial contender again; we're way past that point now.

The Sharks with Pavelski (plus, say, Braun) and without Karlsson would still have been a bad team last year. At best Pavelski performs a little better with the Sharks than he does the Stars (due to the offense being built around the interplay between him and Burns) and the Sharks are able to reduce the minutes spent on players like Sorensen, Bergmann, Radil, Yurtaikin, and so on. Maybe the Sharks are a couple wins better, but they needed nine points to tie the Blackhawks, so they're probably still not a playoff team.

The benefits to the Sharks are keeping a 2021 second round draft pick, clearing out more cap space sooner, and that Pavelski is probably a Sharks lifer. In hindsight, that was probably the best move (there is still a lot of time to change that, particularly if Karlsson plays well for the next few years and the Sharks compete with him doing so), but it was never really plausible.

The Karlsson trade and resigning was a worthy gamble and I'm not sure it was a bad decision, even now.

 

[Barrie22]

Pavelski had 15 of his 25 points in the 1st 8 games, since then has 10 points in 16 games.

So 8 games out of a total of 90 or so games is enough to say the contract was worth it?

 

[Jargon]

While I ultimately agree on the decision to move on from Pavs, I think you guys underestimate his leadership quality. The team last year wasn't just playing poorly because of lack of talent, they seemed to have completely lost their identity. I think Pavs isn't just a special player, he's a very rare type of leader and the locker room really seemed to love him. I think when they lost Pavs, they kinda lost the heart and soul of the team and are just figuring out who they are.

 

[21]

I really like the passioned fans from Ottawa (and the rest of Canada) but your views about Erik Karlsson are not exactly neutral since Karlsson was probably the best defenseman in the world when leaving Ottawa (at least top three). I guess it feels less painful now when Karlsson is not on top any longer (for a while...).

Judging players strictly from point production and goalies from goalies stats is not optimal for struggling teams. This is still the way most experts are doing it though. It's not easy judging/analyzing players from TV you do it much better live. Then everybody gets surprised when a player "turning it around" after being moved to another team, really?

With this logic all players in Ottawa would be terrible but we all know this isn't true.

We all know that Erik Karlsson can do better than this and he will most probably show it. Surprising? Not at all. He cannot turn it around on his own though.

Erik doesn't want to be part of a rebuild, he wants to win now. Rebuild is a terrible word, "We s**k right now but it's ok because we are in the middle of a rebuild." thus giving everybody poor excuses.

Losing should never ever be ok no matter what, you have to find new ways winning and I really like that Erik is emphasizing this fact. What the Sharks need right now is leadership and Erik is one of the leaders in this team, a huge test for him (especially after a couple of veteran leaders leaving the Sharks, Pavelski, Thornton).

This is leadership from Karlsson, a good start:
Karlsson wants Sharks to avoid rebuild, 'did not sign here' for that

 

[tiburon12]

Easy to say this now after the fact of course but a three year deal is looking like a good contract now.

Pavelski was absolutely cooked and benefited an incalculable amount from the shutdown last year. He was walking wounded and finally had time to rest and get healthy. He's also shooting nearly double his career shooting % while playing in a division with 4 of the bottom 1o teams in GA/GP.

That contract is still bad

 

[tealzamboni]

We all know that Erik Karlsson can do better than this and he will most probably show it. Surprising? Not at all. He cannot turn it around on his own though.

Erik doesn't want to be part of a rebuild, he wants to win now. Rebuild is a terrible word, "We s**k right now but it's ok because we are in the middle of a rebuild." thus giving everybody poor excuses.

Losing should never ever be ok no matter what, you have to find new ways winning and I really like that Erik is emphasizing this fact. What the Sharks need right now is leadership and Erik is one of the leaders in this team, a huge test for him (especially after a couple of veteran leaders leaving the Sharks, Pavelski, Thornton).

This is leadership from Karlsson, a good start:
Karlsson wants Sharks to avoid rebuild, 'did not sign here' for that

The leadership angle is an interesting observation. IMO the last six games (since EK65's "rest") seem to have signalled a transition to the "build around Karlsson" era in SJ, both on and off the ice.
I'm assuming that was the understanding between Karlsson and Wilson when he was acquired and resigned. That at some point, the Thornton era would end and the next era would revolve around Karlsson. Wilson still has key personnel decisions related to the Thornton era, so that may explain Karlsson's comments about that being above his paygrade and focusing on the overall culture.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Karlsson will be on his old Ottawa D-partner’s new podcast this Thursday, for those interested in tuning in:

 

[Karl Prime]

Erik's comments about a rebuild getting so much attention (more outside SJ) is a tad confusing to me. Wilson used the term reset, said the team was going to try to make the playoffs, and said ""there's no reason why we can't be back in a very good position next season." Karl said he believes the team has a good core of players and said it's up to them to figure it out. Big deal. It would have been more surprising if he had said they should be rebuilding.

Some Sens fans are also ragging on the Ottawa comments, but those weren't that surprising and I'm guessing they were coming from a more emotional place and it just sort of slipped out. In none of his 9 seasons with the Sens was the goal before the season anything more than "fight to make the playoffs." In two of his 5 playoff appearances, one was carried by elite goaltending with him and Spezza out, and one was a miracle late run to the playoffs in which an unknown AHLer became Patrick Roy for a month and Karl was absolutely phenomenal. Even in 16-17 with Karlsson and Anderson in peak form, they only made the playoffs by four points and had a negative goal differential.

Maybe Erik didn't mean "rebuild in Ottawa for 10 years" but he was probably frustrated that Melnyk never spent more and the team was no more than a bubble team his whole time there. Even in 17-18 after the playoff run, they get Duchene but traded Turris. A contending team would have traded for Duchene but kept Turris to make their team deeper. (Karlsson was terrible offensively and defensively for about 45 games that season but it didn't help that Duchene had 3 points in his first 23 games. Plus losing Turris had an impact in the dressing room almost assuredly.)

 

[sharski]

Trade Couture at the TDL then just give EK65 the C and all the baggage that comes with it

 

[hohosaregood]

Erik's comments about a rebuild getting so much attention (more outside SJ) is a tad confusing to me. Wilson used the term reset, said the team was going to try to make the playoffs, and said ""there's no reason why we can't be back in a very good position next season." Karl said he believes the team has a good core of players and said it's up to them to figure it out. Big deal. It would have been more surprising if he had said they should be rebuilding.

Some Sens fans are also ragging on the Ottawa comments, but those weren't that surprising and I'm guessing they were coming from a more emotional place and it just sort of slipped out. In none of his 9 seasons with the Sens was the goal before the season anything more than "fight to make the playoffs." In two of his 5 playoff appearances, one was carried by elite goaltending with him and Spezza out, and one was a miracle late run to the playoffs in which an unknown AHLer became Patrick Roy for a month and Karl was absolutely phenomenal. Even in 16-17 with Karlsson and Anderson in peak form, they only made the playoffs by four points and had a negative goal differential.

Maybe Erik didn't mean "rebuild in Ottawa for 10 years" but he was probably frustrated that Melnyk never spent more and the team was no more than a bubble team his whole time there. Even in 17-18 after the playoff run, they get Duchene but traded Turris. A contending team would have traded for Duchene but kept Turris to make their team deeper. (Karlsson was terrible offensively and defensively for about 45 games that season but it didn't help that Duchene had 3 points in his first 23 games. Plus losing Turris had an impact in the dressing room almost assuredly.)

Yea it's honestly a ton of horse shit the way that comment has been taken out of context. He's absolutely not whining or complaining about the situation. He's saying what all players say: that he wants to win.

 

[Kat Predator]

I don't know what genie bottle Karlsson rubbed, but damn he's back and playing his best hockey as a Shark in this last brace of games.

 

[Karl Prime]

I don't know what genie bottle Karlsson rubbed, but damn he's back and playing his best hockey as a Shark in this last brace of games.

His best Sharks hockey was December into January '19. But he was playing at that level for his first 7 games back. Now he's cooled off a little the last three but he's still doing some Erik Karlsson things and competing hard defensively. The thing is I don't know if you can judge the rest of his season strictly from stat watching. He's going to have lower point totals which looks unremarkable but his PPG will probably be good taking away the 4 in 13 start. He's had some games and will continue to have more where he's great won't have a point to show for it so those outside SJ won't know he's playing better.

The team really needs his offensive production with the lack of depth up front but he can't be forcing it either, especially playing with a young guy and a forward group that's suspect defensively. As one of the biggest Karl fans around it would be awesome to see him put up like 35 points in his last 39 games but it's unlikely to happen. I mean, Burns is producing at a lesser clip than Karlsson was last season.

 

[mogambomoroo]

One thing I have noticed this season is that after Karlsson has scored both of his goals this year, the team really starts to get fire under their ass and dominate.
So recipe for this season is to have Karlsson score and then bunch of goals after that start piling.

 

[tiburon12]

Yea it's honestly a ton of horse shit the way that comment has been taken out of context. He's absolutely not whining or complaining about the situation. He's saying what all players say: that he wants to win.

Part of the joy of being a Sharks fan is avoiding all the BS drama the media stirs up, yet this year with Kane and now Karlsson i feel like we are (comparatively) mired in drama

 

[Kat Predator]

His best Sharks hockey was December into January '19.

He has had offensively more productive stretches, for sure. And that's a fair argument to be made.

Still, he seems to be skating much better, being defensively responsible, and making plenty of high end defensive plays. I don't really recall him standing out in quite that way before.

His offensive numbers haven't soared, that's true. But he is starting to move, create, and shoot more than earlier in the season.

It's all good. We need him to be our best player.

 

[Karl Prime]

 

[fasterthanlight]

Is it just me, or... has SJ not really given EK65 an opportunity to be liked by the fanbase? I feel like this sort of interview is great. But it seems the sharks rarely show this side of EK65

 

[Pavelski2112]

Is it just me, or... has SJ not really given EK65 an opportunity to be liked by the fanbase? I feel like this sort of interview is great. But it seems the sharks rarely show this side of EK65

No matter what he or the Sharks do, the fans are always gonna see him (whether right or not) as just some ego-driven star who came in and drove out the best captain in Sharks history.

 

[hohosaregood]

No matter what he or the Sharks do, the fans are always gonna see him (whether right or not) as just some ego-driven star who came in and drove out the best captain in Sharks history.

And here I am never having had a particular fondness for Pavs.

 

[tealzamboni]

Is it just me, or... has SJ not really given EK65 an opportunity to be liked by the fanbase? I feel like this sort of interview is great. But it seems the sharks rarely show this side of EK65

I always got the impression that PR/Karlsson didn't want to step on the existing brand. Burns, Marleau, and to a degree Vlasic/Couture are still figurehead pieces from the previous era.

With regards to a changing of the guard/culture, I thought it was kind of interesting that Marleau, Vlasic, Burns generally stayed away from the chippy stuff yesterday (Karlsson as well). I know there's no reason for them to get involved - I guess the point is that it's the next wave that's building the hate for Vegas.

 

[Pavelski2112]

And here I am never having had a particular fondness for Pavs.

He's my favorite player of all time (perhaps obviously), but even I knew it was time to move on.

 

[Karl Prime]

Is it just me, or... has SJ not really given EK65 an opportunity to be liked by the fanbase? I feel like this sort of interview is great. But it seems the sharks rarely show this side of EK65

If he had been playing great for the last 80+ games the last season and a half then he would be liked a lot more. Plus a lot of people believe that if Erik hadn't been signed then Pavelski would have stayed and the team would still be a contender. But apart from the on-ice stuff he seems to be a good dude. People saying he's arrogant or a drama queen confuse me because he's played hurt in three different playoffs. He risked his career to help his team win.

Heck, even when he's asked about how he feels about his own game (when he's playing great) he usually deflects and talks about the team's performance. An arrogant player would relish the chance to talk about how well they're playing. Even when he had the "C" some questioned his leadership, but in two of his four seasons he led the team during the miraculous playoff run in 14-15 and in 16-17 he did everything Boucher asked of him, including blocking a lot of shots, which led to his broken foot and all the physical issues he's had since.

If he continues to play at a good level the rest of this season and into next he'll have more fans in the Bay Area, but the reality is there will always be some that don't like him solely based on the contract and the position the team is in.

 

[seroes]

I always got the impression that PR/Karlsson didn't want to step on the existing brand. Burns, Marleau, and to a degree Vlasic/Couture are still figurehead pieces from the previous era.

With regards to a changing of the guard/culture, I thought it was kind of interesting that Marleau, Vlasic, Burns generally stayed away from the chippy stuff yesterday (Karlsson as well). I know there's no reason for them to get involved - I guess the point is that it's the next wave that's building the hate for Vegas.

Burns stuck up for Ferraro last night. He didn't actually fight but he did get involved in the scrum. Started it if memory serves.