Ellis contract and Jake Gardiner

[IBeL34f]

Why not this year?

Well, technically he could be placed on LTIR this year, it would just be really, really, really unwise to do so - If people think we have a cap crunch in 2019/20 now, wait until we add $3+M in dead cap space to the equation for performance bonuses that could've been dealt with this year.

 

[Morgs]

I'm fully aware that my memory isn't exactly what it used to be, but wasn't he one of our best defensemen in the Playoffs in 2013 (Boston) and 2017 (Washington)?

Don't forget the 2018 playoffs too. He was fantastic until a rough game 7.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

No Ellis is much better than Gardiner. In fact Nashville probably has the best D core in the league.

 

[Gallagbi]

Well, technically he could be placed on LTIR this year, it would just be really, really, really unwise to do so - If people think we have a cap crunch in 2019/20 now, wait until we add $3+M in dead cap space to the equation for performance bonuses that could've been dealt with this year.

I guess I don't understand why he can't be placed on LTIR every year? Wasn't that the whole point in moving him for Clarkson?

 

[Sypher04]

I realize it's under value, but my best offer for Gardiner is the Rielly AAV.

 

[Cams]

I'm fully aware that my memory isn't exactly what it used to be, but wasn't he one of our best defensemen in the Playoffs in 2013 (Boston) and 2017 (Washington)?

In the Washington series he was very good - in the Boston(2013) he was NOT very good. Don't forget he cleared the puck right to Bergeron (nice hard pass is what it looked like) for the empty net behind a sprawling Reimer. Boston (2017-18) - well...we know how that was for Gardiner.

 

[Cams]

Why are people forgetting about Borgman and potentially Rosen?

 

[ShaneFalco]

We finished 105 points, and got playoff experience including game 7.

Also got to replace JVR with Tavares.

The playoff experience would have been there with or without JVR. He provided very little for the 'cup run'
Had they moved him last summer, perhaps we wouldn't be having conversations about which d-man to obtain, and how without losing a significant piece.

I hope Dubas manages assets better than Lou

 

[IBeL34f]

I guess I don't understand why he can't be placed on LTIR every year? Wasn't that the whole point in moving him for Clarkson?

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not an expert - If anyone else is able to explain this better than I can, feel free to chime in.

Players can only be placed on LTIR if a team is already up against the cap - The player (Player A) is placed on LTIR in order for the team to replace Player A with another player (Player B) of a cap hit equal to or less than Player A.

Performance bonuses are not allowed to be the relief received from placing Player A on waivers, which essentially means that we're either so close to the cap that Horton needs to be placed on LTIR (pushing our performance bonuses to next year) or we leave ourselves enough room under the cap this year to accommodate both Horton's cap and the performance bonuses.

Because we have so much cap space this year, and an almost guaranteed crunch on the horizon for next year, it would make the most sense for us to leave Horton on the active roster this year, get our performance bonuses out of the way, and then use LTIR again next year for cap relief when we don't have anymore large performance bonuses to worry about.

 

[pheasant]

Seems to me like Babcock likes him. It's only Babcock and Dubas who make the calls. And all we have to go on for their opinion is pr quotes (that won't say much) and on-ice usage (that tells a lot).

As far as I can tell, Babcock likes Gardiner. He plays him like crazy. You can claim he's sheltered, but a case could be made it's just playing to his strengths.

I don't see how we could lose Gardiner when the blueline is already this as it is. Extend him!

 

[Gallagbi]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not an expert - If anyone else is able to explain this better than I can, feel free to chime in.

Players can only be placed on LTIR if a team is already up against the cap - The player (Player A) is placed on LTIR in order for the team to replace Player A with another player (Player B) of a cap hit equal to or less than Player A.

Performance bonuses are not allowed to be the relief received from placing Player A on waivers, which essentially means that we're either so close to the cap that Horton needs to be placed on LTIR (pushing our performance bonuses to next year) or we leave ourselves enough room under the cap this year to accommodate both Horton's cap and the performance bonuses.

Because we have so much cap space this year, and an almost guaranteed crunch on the horizon for next year, it would make the most sense for us to leave Horton on the active roster this year, get our performance bonuses out of the way, and then use LTIR again next year for cap relief when we don't have anymore large performance bonuses to worry about.

My understanding is that Horton's costing us the same $5.25/year no matter what, the "relief" on LTIR only comes in for overages (minus performance bonuses). So there'd be no benefit to him being on the active roster at all since he's still costing the same either way.

 

[therealkoho]

I'm 56. Been a Leafs' fan since the late 60's early 70's.

Thanks for playing.

problem is though being 56 gives you no cred, the kids write it off as just another "old guy" the game has passed by, I get it once and awhile myself at 64 being one of the few here to have actually attended a SCF game in 62 at MLG. What the h-e-double hockey sticks would I know about hockey. there are still people here who don't understand why Hyman played where he played!

All one has to do is look around the league and see all those teen and twenty somethings running NHL benches or front offices....oh wait there isn't any

 

[IBeL34f]

My understanding is that Horton's costing us the same $5.25/year no matter what, the "relief" on LTIR only comes in for overages (minus performance bonuses). So there'd be no benefit to him being on the active roster at all since he's still costing the same either way.

The benefit is that it doesn't push our performance bonuses to next year, it has nothing to do with Horton or his $5.3M.

If we're so close to the cap that we can get relief for Horton's LTIR placement, I believe we're too close to the cap to absorb the performance bonuses, which means we're left with a decision - Keep ourselves so far below this year's cap that the performance bonuses and Horton's contract both fit, or go right up to the cap to use Horton's LTIR relief (resulting in our performance bonuses being pushed to next year).
The former scenario results in a bunch of dead cap space this year, but the latter results in a much tighter squeeze next year when our RFAs are off their ELCs.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

We may be able to get him locked up for 5.5ish

Yes. Lock him up. In a secure room far away from any ice surface.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

problem is though being 56 gives you no cred, the kids write it off as just another "old guy" the game has passed by, I get it once and awhile myself at 64 being one of the few here to have actually attended a SCF game in 62 at MLG. What the h-e-double hockey sticks would I know about hockey. there are still people here who don't understand why Hyman played where he played!

All one has to do is look around the league and see all those teen and twenty somethings running NHL benches or front offices....oh wait there isn't any

I really didn't expect any "cred" but I was responding to his post in regards to his longevity of fandom while questioning my life experience so I just thought I'd point out his faux pas.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

So mods, I would expect that if posts containing the words "Kool Aid Krew" are removed then posts calling fans "haters" will also be removed?

Can we have a little consistency?

 

[A1LeafNation]

The playoff experience would have been there with or without JVR. He provided very little for the 'cup run'
Had they moved him last summer, perhaps we wouldn't be having conversations about which d-man to obtain, and how without losing a significant piece.

I hope Dubas manages assets better than Lou

Do you know how much pressure was taken off the kids because we had vets coaching them in the background?

Also, we are good on assets and prospects. There is a 50 contract limit so there are only so much assets we can carry at a time.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Do you know how much pressure was taken off the kids because we had vets coaching them in the background?

Also, we are good on assets and prospects. There is a 50 contract limit so there are only so much assets we can carry at a time.

To be fair, I don't want our young guys getting coaching from Bozak and JvR.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

In the Washington series he was very good - in the Boston(2013) he was NOT very good. Don't forget he cleared the puck right to Bergeron (nice hard pass is what it looked like) for the empty net behind a sprawling Reimer. Boston (2017-18) - well...we know how that was for Gardiner.

Gardiner was arguably the best defender on the ice against Washinton, dont know what you saw... he also went beast mode against Boston the first time and had a good series while playing an insane amount of ice time in each series (especially against Washington due to polak injury).

We know Gardiner absolutely dominated his 5 on 5 opponents in terms of scoring chances, shots etc this year and then had a bad game 7. But ya make it seem like he was a trainwreck

 

[A1LeafNation]

To be fair, I don't want our young guys getting coaching from Bozak and JvR.

Could be little things. JVR was on a pretty good philly team that went to the finals.

Bozak was not in game 7 but that 2013 Boston series could provide some good stories and lessons learned for them.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Seems to me like Babcock likes him. It's only Babcock and Dubas who make the calls. And all we have to go on for their opinion is pr quotes (that won't say much) and on-ice usage (that tells a lot).

As far as I can tell, Babcock likes Gardiner. He plays him like crazy. You can claim he's sheltered, but a case could be made it's just playing to his strengths.

I don't see how we could lose Gardiner when the blueline is already this as it is. Extend him!

Agreed about Babcock liking him

Gardiner was in pretty much no way sheltered this past year unlike previous years. Makes his career high in points even more impressive. He started more shifts in the defensive zone than offensive while playing an above average QoC for a 2nd pairing guy, played a crazy amount of ice time etc.

He had a very good season by any metric or eye test it is crazy to me that people think he is borderline worthless.

 

[MagicalRazor]

He has all the stats to be worth much more than that.

well i hope a different team signs him for more than that because the deal will bite them in the rear end, and i'm really curious to what stats you are talking about besides points hes had some of the worst analytically stats of his career this year

 

[ShaneFalco]

Do you know how much pressure was taken off the kids because we had vets coaching them in the background?

Also, we are good on assets and prospects. There is a 50 contract limit so there are only so much assets we can carry at a time.

Vets like Bozak, JVR, Martin and Komarov? Not exactly the guys you want to emulate

 

[Notsince67]

well i hope a different team signs him for more than that because the deal will bite them in the rear end, and i'm really curious to what stats you are talking about besides points hes had some of the worst analytically stats of his career this year

Defensive analytical stats are difficult to assess and is a work in progress. If you are looking at CF%, I can tell you that it isn't as predictive as you might think of defensive prowess.
There are many stats that support him as a very good dman though

 

[MagicalRazor]

Defensive analytical stats are difficult to assess and is a work in progress. If you are looking at CF%, I can tell you that it isn't as predictive as you might think of defensive prowess.
There are many stats that support him as a very good dman though

I'm looking at alot more than CF% but i understand i'm looking at the whole picture . Jake Gardiner Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

but to be a 100% honest im super bias because i don't like him and never have