Player Discussion Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[DonnyNucker]

I am genuinely curious what the Benning defenders had to say about the Pearson signing. Sure you can argue that we should resign him but to do so before resigning two of your most important RFAs?

Back to Hughes's contract. He shouldn't get anywhere close to 6m based on comparables.

Not a very intelligent take. Sometimes RFA negotiations can last up until training camp and possibly beyond. Should they not take care of other business until they are done? You sound like benning. We couldnt sign anyone else because we ran out of time trying to sign Hughes

 

[LordBacon]

Just watch us lose one of them and then aquaman finally decides to can this dumbass.

 

[F A N]

I mean... He would be UFA after the deal and would be free to choose his team.

And he would be 50 mil rich. I dont think Petey would be too picky on the team.

View attachment 447296

I say these teams could do it, some would have to do another move to get the salary to make sense but still:
- Seattle
- Ottawa
- NJ
- Detroit
- Los Angeles

Offer sheets are rare in the first place but players like Petey who is going to get paid one way or another usually don't sign offer sheets unless they are far apart in negotiations and another team comes in with a very good offer. For whatever reason, teams don't sign players to offer sheets unless there is a high probability of the other team not matching. I don't know why, but it doesn't seem to be used as a weapon to screw with another team's cap structure.

So while there are teams that could potentially do it, you also have to consider the fact that if the Canucks don't match, that team is paying Petey the 3rd highest dollar salary for his RFA years in the league without buying any UFA years. On top of that you are giving up two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. We talk about wasting our core players' prime years here and it's going to be the same thing with a lot of those teams who have accumulated a lot of prospects/young talent but are realistically years away from contention.

 

[bossram]

I’d take that trade, actually.

Um, that is horrific for the Canucks. Unless it's like Buffalo making the offer.

 

[bossram]

I am genuinely curious what the Benning defenders had to say about the Pearson signing. Sure you can argue that we should resign him but to do so before resigning two of your most important RFAs?

Back to Hughes's contract. He shouldn't get anywhere close to 6m based on comparables.

I don't get this statement. Hughes really doesn't have any comparables.

The main component that determines contracts (particularly RFA contracts) is points. The only comparable ELC defensemen in terms of points in the last decade are Cale Makar and Adam Fox. Fox is still under contract and Makar is an RFA as well.

The McAvoy/Sergachev/Werenski ~$5 million x 3 year contracts are not comparable. Hughes is clearly on a different level of production than the former 3 during their ELCs.

Whether or not Hughes is actually worth more is an open question. But there is no way JP Barry and Pat Brisson are accepting a $5 million AAV bridge contract for Hughes. Makar and Hughes will be market setters.

 

[MS]

I cant think of a reason why a GM would not offersheet Pettersson with a 5 year $10,907,735 deal.

It will cost 2x 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd but nets you a top line center.

Because the Canucks would automatically match, and you've wasted a bunch of time where you could have been negotiating with actual UFAs you actually had a chance to sign with zero to show for it other than creating an enemy.

Offer sheets basically never happen for a reason.

 

[MS]

I don't get this statement. Hughes really doesn't have any comparables.

The main component that determines contracts (particularly RFA contracts) is points. The only comparable ELC defensemen in terms of points in the last decade are Cale Makar and Adam Fox. Fox is still under contract and Makar is an RFA as well.

The McAvoy/Sergachev/Werenski ~$5 million x 3 year contracts are not comparable. Hughes is clearly on a different level of production than the former 3 during their ELCs.

Whether or not Hughes is actually worth more is an open question. But there is no way JP Barry and Pat Brisson are accepting a $5 million AAV bridge contract for Hughes. Makar and Hughes will be market setters.

Point totals shouldn't be the be-all end-all when looking at a defender contract.

A guy like McAvoy is a better player than Hughes by a country mile and everybody knows it. Absolutely that's a comparable even if Hughes scored more PP points.

Now, this is Benning so of course we'll get bent over but with a better GM we really shouldn't be getting bent over based on a flawed player getting a bunch of PP assists.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

mcavoy... too bad we weren't targeting a dman in that draft

 

[bossram]

Point totals shouldn't be the be-all end-all when looking at a defender contract.

A guy like McAvoy is a better player than Hughes by a country mile and everybody knows it. Absolutely that's a comparable even if Hughes scored more PP points.

Now, this is Benning so of course we'll get bent over but with a better GM we really shouldn't be getting bent over based on a flawed player getting a bunch of PP assists.

Points aren't the end-all be-all, but for contracts (especially RFA contracts), they seem to be the primary determinant.

Yeah, I agree that McAvoy is a better player than Hughes. But contract negotiations aren't really about that. If McAvoy gets $5 million for 0.5 PPG and top-pairing TOI (which Hughes also plays), then Hughes camp will surely ask for more.

CAA is the top agency in hockey. They get wins for their clients. They are going to point to the fact that Hughes has no relevant contract comparables in terms of points - thus he should be entitled to a contract bigger than the ones seen so far. That's just how it is.

 

[lemairefan]

I cant think of a reason why a GM would not offersheet Pettersson with a 5 year $10,907,735 deal.

It will cost 2x 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd but nets you a top line center.

Not that I think the Habs would do it, but they could.

Tatar ($4.8M) is a UFA and Drouin ($5.5M) will be gone. That's a total of 10.3M. If they let Danault walk, that's another $3.083M for a total of $13.383M. They'd basically be replacing Danault with Petterson

 

[Petey O]

Hughes shouldn't get a dime over 6 million. But he will.

 

[orcatown]

Point totals shouldn't be the be-all end-all when looking at a defender contract.

A guy like McAvoy is a better player than Hughes by a country mile and everybody knows it. Absolutely that's a comparable even if Hughes scored more PP points.

Now, this is Benning so of course we'll get bent over but with a better GM we really shouldn't be getting bent over based on a flawed player getting a bunch of PP assists.

Exactly.

 

[Blue and Green]

Points aren't the end-all be-all, but for contracts (especially RFA contracts), they seem to be the primary determinant.

Yeah, I agree that McAvoy is a better player than Hughes. But contract negotiations aren't really about that. If McAvoy gets $5 million for 0.5 PPG and top-pairing TOI (which Hughes also plays), then Hughes camp will surely ask for more.

CAA is the top agency in hockey. They get wins for their clients. They are going to point to the fact that Hughes has no relevant contract comparables in terms of points - thus he should be entitled to a contract bigger than the ones seen so far. That's just how it is.

McAvoy from the get-go was playing the tough defensive minutes that Hughes can't. I don't see why Hughes would get a bridge contract that blows away the bridge deals of McAvoy, Werenski and Sergachev.

Alex Pietrangelo, Torey Krug and Tyson Barrie have quite similar point totals and per-game averages over the past five years. Pietrangelo got $8.8M x 7 on the open market last fall with a full NMC throughout; Krug also went to market but got $6.5M x 7 with a NTC that becomes a modified NTC in the final two years. Barrie will get less this summer than what Krug got. These are defencemen and how they defend makes a big difference in their contracts.

 

[bossram]

McAvoy from the get-go was playing the tough defensive minutes that Hughes can't. I don't see why Hughes would get a bridge contract that blows away the bridge deals of McAvoy, Werenski and Sergachev.

Alex Pietrangelo, Torey Krug and Tyson Barrie have quite similar point totals and per-game averages over the past five years. Pietrangelo got $8.8M x 7 on the open market last fall with a full NMC throughout; Krug also went to market but got $6.5M x 7 with a NTC that becomes a modified NTC in the final two years. Barrie will get less this summer than what Krug got. These are defencemen and how they defend makes a big difference in their contracts.

Those are UFAs. They're free to negotiate with whoever and however they like.

RFA contracts are based nearly exclusively on relevant comparables. And comparables are based pretty primarily on points and TOI. "Defensive burden" doesn't often seem to come into it.

 

[arttk]

Offer sheets are rare in the first place but players like Petey who is going to get paid one way or another usually don't sign offer sheets unless they are far apart in negotiations and another team comes in with a very good offer. For whatever reason, teams don't sign players to offer sheets unless there is a high probability of the other team not matching. I don't know why, but it doesn't seem to be used as a weapon to screw with another team's cap structure.

So while there are teams that could potentially do it, you also have to consider the fact that if the Canucks don't match, that team is paying Petey the 3rd highest dollar salary for his RFA years in the league without buying any UFA years. On top of that you are giving up two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. We talk about wasting our core players' prime years here and it's going to be the same thing with a lot of those teams who have accumulated a lot of prospects/young talent but are realistically years away from contention.

I can see NYR throwing over an offer sheet of like 8-10M for like 3-5 years. They are stacked and losing a bunch of 1st won’t really hurt them.

hell they can do a 1 year poison offer sheet of like 12-13 mil and it would be so crippling for us that we won’t be able to match it. They have a ton of cap next season amd they can do it just to get Petey over and negotiate something after that contract is done.

 

[canuckking1]

I can see NYR throwing over an offer sheet of like 8-10M for like 3-5 years. They are stacked and losing a bunch of 1st won’t really hurt them.

hell they can do a 1 year poison offer sheet of like 12-13 mil and it would be so crippling for us that we won’t be able to match it. They have a ton of cap next season amd they can do it just to get Petey over and negotiate something after that contract is done.

If they signed him to a 13M dollar contract his QO offer would be 13M+.

 

[Slapshot_11]

Hughes shouldn't get a dime over 6 million. But he will.

He shouldn't get a dime over 5 million

 

[DonnyNucker]

I can see NYR throwing over an offer sheet of like 8-10M for like 3-5 years. They are stacked and losing a bunch of 1st won’t really hurt them.

hell they can do a 1 year poison offer sheet of like 12-13 mil and it would be so crippling for us that we won’t be able to match it. They have a ton of cap next season amd they can do it just to get Petey over and negotiate something after that contract is done.

Lol

 

[elitepete]

I’d take that trade, actually.

I wouldn’t even trade Pettersson for 4 firsts. He’s a top 10 player and will be top 5 soon.

 

[supsens]

If things go business as usual Pettersson is probably going to sign Barzal/Tkachuk/Point type of contract, 3 years around 7M.

But I always hope to see offer sheets, like with Aho 2 years ago. Someone throwing that 5 x 10.9M would be cool to see. I'm shocked every time these don't happen with high-end RFAs coming off ELCs because they just make too much sense. But that's the NHL for ya.

It drives up the cost of laborand no companies want that. It also leaves you open to revenge attacks for years. It's just not worth it.

 

[AppleHoneySauce]

It drives up the cost of laborand no companies want that. It also leaves you open to revenge attacks for years. It's just not worth it.

The revenge attacks arent that bad when you consider them like trades. The team that gets the best player always wins. Like if we Offer sheeted Laff for a similar contract i would still say the NYR would have won the trade.

 

[F A N]

I can see NYR throwing over an offer sheet of like 8-10M for like 3-5 years. They are stacked and losing a bunch of 1st won’t really hurt them.

hell they can do a 1 year poison offer sheet of like 12-13 mil and it would be so crippling for us that we won’t be able to match it. They have a ton of cap next season amd they can do it just to get Petey over and negotiate something after that contract is done.

NYR doesn’t have their own 2nd round pick to offer sheet Petey at the below $11M levels.

A one year deal at $12-13M would cripple them as well. 4 first round picks + qualifying offer at that price? They they are better off exploring an Eichel deal.

 

[supsens]

The revenge attacks arent that bad when you consider them like trades. The team that gets the best player always wins. Like if we Offer sheeted Laff for a similar contract i would still say the NYR would have won the trade.

Its not that, its when you have a 3 million dollar RFA and are tight on cap and they come drop 4.25 on you stripping your ability to afford or keep depth around.

 

[rypper]

NYR doesn’t have their own 2nd round pick to offer sheet Petey at the below $11M levels.

A one year deal at $12-13M would cripple them as well. 4 first round picks + qualifying offer at that price? They they are better off exploring an Eichel deal.

Wouldn't it be next years picks required for an offer sheet?

 

[IslandBeast]

mcavoy... too bad we weren't targeting a dman in that draft

Tkachuck, MacAvoy and Chychrun all stepped into the league in their very first years as 18/19 year olds. The fact that you miss on the players who were already NHL ready and have just as high if not higher ceilings than Juolevi makes it so much worse. These kids were ready to go right off the hop and we whiffed, sure other teams did too but we supposedly have a drafting guru at the helm

41 points in 56 games for Chychrun this year btw...18 goals