Confirmed with Link: Elias Lindholm and Noah Hanifin coming to Calgary for Dougie Hamilton, Adam Fox, Micheal Ferland

[Anglesmith]

I think the Flames should avoid NCAA players from now on in the draft. They carry a similar risk to Russian players. In guys like Fox, you make a great pick, you do everything right, and you don't get any real value out of it because of NCAA rules not allowing players to sign sliding deals. It's not worth the risk unless you're picking a guy who is going to be in the NHL in no more than his draft+2 season. They would get more out of a slightly worse pick from the CHL or Europe.

I am wondering if Hakan Loob coming on board is tied into this shift in strategy. If the Flames want to lessen the number of NCAA players they draft, they'll have to probably step up their drafting of European players actually playing in Europe.

 

[Mobiandi]

I am wondering if Hakan Loob coming on board is tied into this shift in strategy. If the Flames want to lessen the number of NCAA players they draft, they'll have to probably step up their drafting of European players actually playing in Europe.

Loob's job will be to provide reports on undrafted 23-24 year olds that may have gone unnoticed

 

[Anglesmith]

Loob's job will be to provide reports on undrafted 23-24 year olds that may have gone unnoticed

Damn.

 

[Lunatik]

If you sent them away via waivers, I think? Maybe not. Not sure the exact rule but in my head its called the "Dean McAmmond Rule"

That rule is gone. It was one where if you traded them prior to the waiver draft, you could not re-acquire them that season. This was in place because teams would give up an asset to "hide" players, but with the waiver draft being nixed, so did the rule.

I think the Flames should avoid NCAA players from now on in the draft. They carry a similar risk to Russian players. In guys like Fox, you make a great pick, you do everything right, and you don't get any real value out of it because of NCAA rules not allowing players to sign sliding deals. It's not worth the risk unless you're picking a guy who is going to be in the NHL in no more than his draft+2 season. They would get more out of a slightly worse pick from the CHL or Europe.

I am wondering if Hakan Loob coming on board is tied into this shift in strategy. If the Flames want to lessen the number of NCAA players they draft, they'll have to probably step up their drafting of European players actually playing in Europe.

I think it depends on the prospect and their pedigree. A guy going in the top 10 or whatnot won't likely want to spend 4 years in college before going pro, I think that argument could be made for most 1st rounders too. It's later picks where it is an issue, but at the same time, it's later picks that you should be taking more risk with IMO. With Russians, it doesn't seem to matter where they are picked, as soon as their contract expires, if they don't get what they want they will take their ball and go home (and some will still do it after getting what they want).

 

[Calculon]

It's a mixed bag. Gaudreau and Jankowski signed; Hickey and Fox did not.

Maybe the Flames have to start promising actual legitimate opportunities for the defenceman. Going back to Morrison, after he was signed, Treliving trades for Hamilton and then signs Nakladal, all while Brodie and Wideman are still on the right side. Morrison goes from third on the depth chart to fifth and now gets zero NHL time. I get Treliving's job is to build depth but at the same time, there had to be a bit of sour taste in Morrison's mouth. Had he signed with Edmonton for example he definitely would have gotten the opportunity to play. You look at how hard it is for Wotherspoon, Kylington, and Andersson to get any NHL time, how long it took Kulak to get a spot with the Flames and it's understandable why guy with choices want to go elsewhere. The players aren't dumb; they're not going to waste prime years of their career toiling away in the AHL when they're NHL teams willing to give them NHL spots right off the bat.

For what it's worth, Koumontzis is apparently going to the college route so it doesn't look like they're going to completely stop drafting from there.

 

[Turning Mangiapanese]

Didn't see this posted yet, here's Treliving talking about the trade to the tune of Toto's Africa:

 

[Lunatik]

It's a mixed bag. Gaudreau and Jankowski signed; Hickey and Fox did not.

Maybe the Flames have to start promising actual legitimate opportunities for the defenceman. Going back to Morrison, after he was signed, Treliving trades for Hamilton and then signs Nakladal, all while Brodie and Wideman are still on the right side. Morrison goes from third on the depth chart to fifth and now gets zero NHL time. I get Treliving's job is to build depth but at the same time, there had to be a bit of sour taste in Morrison's mouth. Had he signed with Edmonton for example he definitely would have gotten the opportunity to play. You look at how hard it is for Wotherspoon, Kylington, and Andersson to get any NHL time, how long it took Kulak to get a spot with the Flames and it's understandable why guy with choices want to go elsewhere. The players aren't dumb; they're not going to waste prime years of their career toiling away in the AHL when they're NHL teams willing to give them NHL spots right off the bat.

For what it's worth, Koumontzis is apparently going to the college route so it doesn't look like they're going to completely stop drafting from there.

Kenney Morris was a shit defenseman in the AHL, that is why he got no NHL time and acquiring other defensemen wasn't the reason.

 

[jfc64]

This trade might be about maximizing common value. Canes might value a certain salary structure where Lindholm and Hanifin would have taken the outer file to top pay. They get the chance to shine now. Lindy Hop on a top line and Hanifine on the P0P bine.

 

[Fire Treliving]

While I like the trade, my big concern is how much more can Peters get out of Lindholm and Hanifin in Calgary that he couldn't in Carolina.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

I mean, I guess I can see the “not really a change of scenery” because they go from Peters to Peters, but I’m not sure I buy it completely. Especially in Lindholm’s case.

Like, don’t forget Huska is looking after the defencemen and he’s got a very strong track record there (Keith, Weber, Severson, Schenn, etc.) plus has done good work with Andersson, Kulak and Kylington so far.

Regardless, they’re both still very young players who could click just like that (much like many people on this board expect Bennett to). I’m not necessarily sure either needed a “change of scenery” to accomplish that, we forget that they’re still so young after breaking into the league so young. I wouldn’t be worried about following Peters here.

 

[Lunatik]

While I like the trade, my big concern is how much more can Peters get out of Lindholm and Hanifin in Calgary that he couldn't in Carolina.

Peters, Lindholm and Hanifin are the only 3 things that are common between Carolina and Calgary.

Lindholm is going to get the chance to play with Gaudreau, who will be the best offensive player he has ever played with in the NHL. He will also be centered by Monahan, a better offensive center than he has ever played with.

Hanifin, in Carolina was unable to be sheltered at all due to their defense corps all being so young and inexperienced. Playing with Hamonic, who is nothing like anything they had in Carolina will allow Hanifin to play his style of game a little more.

 

[King In The North]

Consider when we traded Hickey he didn't even sign in Arizona, he was traded again. Could happen to Fox if all he wants is UFA.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

as a Bruins fan who was furious watching his team get bent over by Hamilton and his agent I have to say I feel vindicated seeing him burn another team (especially after all the armchair GMs called Sweeney stupid for trading him/not getting enough of a return).

At least the flames got a good hockey deal out of it and known quantities, tho. I'm not trolling, just glad to see that Bruins fans look a little less insane now when we tell the world that Dougie Hamilton isn't worth the trouble.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Yeah. It is disturbing to hear the Flames had been quietly shopping him for almost 2 years.

The reports out of Boston that he was a “Locker room cancer” is likely over selling it a bit, but clearly there is a personality issue.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Lindholm is a cerebral player who lacks the speed to be a leading player.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Hamilton’s alleged issues aside, this trade is going to look very bad in a few years.

 

[SKRusty]

Lindholm is a cerebral player who lacks the speed to be a leading player.

Lacking Speed flies in the face of almost every analyst stating that Lindholm brings the team speed up. Surf Sportsnet, ESPN, and TSN to hear almost every analysis

Hamilton’s alleged issues aside, this trade is going to look very bad in a few years.

I disagree.

Ferland is a UFA next year likely becoming a luxury the Flames could not afford. After getting Chucky, Janks (bridge this year), Bennett, Lazar, and Kulak signed to new contracts it is likely the 4-5 M a year would not be doable for Ferly.

Hamilton's stats were inflated because the Flames coaching staff were almost certainly ordered to spoon feed Dougie to make his value increase thus making trades easier. You can really see supporting evidence after his brother was waived. Gio was a good soldier and did everything in his power to make Hamilton look good. Add in the locker room issues and Hamilton is almost worthless to the Flames. There is a reason Dougie alone didn't garner Hanifin and Lindholm-- This is one of the worst kept secrets in the league.

Gio is the only all-world defenseman on the Flames. He is the most unsung star in the league. He makes every player he plays with look like an all-star.

I sincerely doubt Fox signs with Carolina and elects to become an UFA just as Treliving stated in the press confrence.

So to sum things up. Ferland and Fox would not have been on the Flames roster at this time next year and Dougie would have been a cancer in the room for another 3 years.

 

[CraigsList]

How is this a bad trade? I'd be leaning towards Hamilton leaving the Flames after 3 more years for the money to another team. Fox probably wasn't even going to sign with us, and Ferland is a pending UFA who, if smart, could potentially get a 4-5 year big deal on a team that really wants a big body who can score goals, and probably at a price that we were not willing to pay.

We received two players that are 23 and 21 that we can sign long term. I also value Hanifin as someone that can potentially become our top pairing LHD in a couple of seasons if he continues to progress the way he is progressing.

 

[Calculon]

This could really go either way but based on the contract situation, I mostly like it for the Flames. Fox wasn't signing with the Flames at all and Hamilton was apparently a problem. But even if there weren't any issues with Hamilton, in three years he would have cost 8M+ to re-sign. Hanifin should be relatively cost controlled for longer, especially if the Flames play their cards right. Same idea with Lindholm versus Ferland.

But I also was never as high on Hamilton or Fox as others so meh.

 

[Kranix]

Hamilton’s alleged issues aside, this trade is going to look very bad in a few years.

Why do you say that?

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Didn't see this posted yet, here's Treliving talking about the trade to the tune of Toto's Africa:

Man, you really don't get the impression he misses Dougie. He mentions the loss of Ferland like 4-5x in the interview, and Dougie is only mentioned once (in concert with Ferland, if I'm remembering right).

 

[Mr Snrub]

If Dougie was not a good teammate I'm glad he's gone, but I still think that value-wise the trade is skewed. We gave up defense, defense and forward for defense and forward, so we didn't really solve any real need? Was it common knowledge league-wide that Dougie and Fox didn't want to be on the Flames, and if so, why did that cat get let out of the bag?

I guess I mostly am mad that the Flames got fleeced, whether by circumstances under our control or not, and have a tough time seeing the team as better now than it was before the trade. Also does anyone have a source besides Francis that Dougie was an issue?

Damn @Walk with Elias have you ever changed your name before?

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Anyone know when Lindholm and Hanifin will be signed?

 

[The Gnome]

All I know is that this is a huge trade. The winner on paper today looks like Carolina. But the guys we got have more potential than what we let go. Lindholm and Hanifin could be key players for us, it’ll be interesting if nothing else.

 

[viper0220]

Elliotte Friedman saying that Carolina was soft to play agianst and Lindholm was part of the problem, Elliotte Friedman says that if Lindholm can add a bite to his game, he will be a very good player.

31 Thoughts, The Podcast: NHL Draft edition - Sportsnet.ca