Confirmed with Link: Elias Lindholm and Noah Hanifin coming to Calgary for Dougie Hamilton, Adam Fox, Micheal Ferland

[Mobiandi]

Elliotte Friedman saying that Carolina was soft to play agianst and Lindholm was part of the problem, Elliotte Friedman says that if Lindholm can add a bite to his game, he will be a very good player.

31 Thoughts, The Podcast: NHL Draft edition - Sportsnet.ca

Play him with any two of Tkachuk, Backlund, Bennett. Problem solved

 

[Anglesmith]

It's interesting, because I remember watching videos of Lindholm before the draft when we were debating between him and Monahan. He threw his weight around a fair bit in international play and I thought he'd be the more physical of the two players.

 

[InfinityIggy]

It's interesting, because I remember watching videos of Lindholm before the draft when we were debating between him and Monahan. He threw his weight around a fair bit in international play and I thought he'd be the more physical of the two players.

I remember thinking the same.
Didn’t Monahan get suspended for throwing a pretty brutal check though?

 

[Anglesmith]

I remember thinking the same.
Didn’t Monahan get suspended for throwing a pretty brutal check though?

Looking it up now, and it was actually for an elbow to the head, which doesn't speak to physicality so much as losing one's temper and doing something rash.

 

[JPeeper]

It's a mixed bag. Gaudreau and Jankowski signed; Hickey and Fox did not.

Maybe the Flames have to start promising actual legitimate opportunities for the defenceman. Going back to Morrison, after he was signed, Treliving trades for Hamilton and then signs Nakladal, all while Brodie and Wideman are still on the right side. Morrison goes from third on the depth chart to fifth and now gets zero NHL time. I get Treliving's job is to build depth but at the same time, there had to be a bit of sour taste in Morrison's mouth. Had he signed with Edmonton for example he definitely would have gotten the opportunity to play. You look at how hard it is for Wotherspoon, Kylington, and Andersson to get any NHL time, how long it took Kulak to get a spot with the Flames and it's understandable why guy with choices want to go elsewhere. The players aren't dumb; they're not going to waste prime years of their career toiling away in the AHL when they're NHL teams willing to give them NHL spots right off the bat.

For what it's worth, Koumontzis is apparently going to the college route so it doesn't look like they're going to completely stop drafting from there.

I really feel that they need the close this College loophole in the next CBA. It's bullshit that teams can lose prospects for nothing because they want to go to school and test free agency. I have no problems with the kids going to school or completing their degree, I fully support it, my gripe is that some use this to be free agents and the team drafting them spends resources drafting them, resources developing them, then they leave for nothing. They need to extend the time to sign these guys, like an extra year coming out of school so if they want to go the free agent route they waste a year of their own time.

 

[Anglesmith]

I really feel that they need the close this College loophole in the next CBA. It's bull**** that teams can lose prospects for nothing because they want to go to school and test free agency. I have no problems with the kids going to school or completing their degree, I fully support it, my gripe is that some use this to be free agents and the team drafting them spends resources drafting them, resources developing them, then they leave for nothing. They need to extend the time to sign these guys, like an extra year coming out of school so if they want to go the free agent route they waste a year of their own time.

This was basically how I felt last year around this time. The rules are the same for CHL and NCAA players, but the situations aren't the same, so there's no real reason the rules should be. The argument for having the same rules is that it protect players who don't get an offer from their NHL team. My proposed solution last year was to allow NHL teams to submit a qualifying offer to the NHL after 1, 2 or 3 years (the player himself isn't involved) which is essentially a promissory note that they will be offered an ELC after their senior year, effective July 1st. If they submit this, they are locked in an have to offer the contract, but if the player doesn't sign, his rights are extended for an additional year. This solves the problem in an elegant way. No muss, no fuss.

However, if you're in the NHL's shoes, you don't see this as a problem, most likely. You can say you've made the rules fair for everyone because they're the same for everyone, and that if there is a problem, it's the NCAA's responsibility to fix it. But of course, there is no problem currently for the NCAA, who see many players get drafted every year with no apparent thought to the UFA risk.

The way that this problem gets fixed, I believe, is if NHL teams start boycotting NCAA players after the first round, which I don't think is necessarily that out of the realm of possibility. This would likely eventually erode the quality of the NCAA as middling prospects would avoid it to try to get drafted, which would diminish how much scouts would appreciate players playing there, which would eventually cause even the stars to avoid it, which would lead to a rule change to get players back to choosing the NCAA route. But that's a long process.

I really wish NHL owners would take the initiative to make a big deal about it after their team gets burned. That's a much quicker way to effect change.

 

[JPeeper]

The NCAA and CHL rules are different though in the sense that you can sign guys in the CHL and they can still play in the CHL. You can't sign an NCAA guy and have him play in the NCAA at the same time cause the NCAA is a corrupt shit organization. The rules favour the NCAA greatly, which itself is stupid because the NCAA is a corrupt, terrible organization.

Unless the prospect is someone like Brady Tkachuk who will definitely not stay in school in 4 years or Kyle Connor, the risk is fairly high for NCAA picks. A project pick like Janko is super risky, luckily he's a good kid and signed with us. I know some feel the loyalty argument is flawed (ie. the player should sign with their club because of loyalty), but IMO it shows the character of an individual if they choose to become a free agent instead even though it is 100% in their rights to do so.

A guy like Fox perplexes me, because my take it is this: he could have signed with us and competed for a spot in camp (essentially beating out Stone and now Andersson), and that IMO shows that he is confident in himself and if he doesn't make it he can refine his game in the AHL. However if he doesn't want to compete and thinks he deserves a spot, I don't like that entitled attitude (not saying it's there, just that this kind of thinking with some players exists). However he is also attending Harvard and if he goes through the 4 years to get his degree then that's quite impressive and he should do it, it's a Harvard degree. I again have no problem with him wanting his degree. In my opinion he straight up told management that he was staying the full 4 years to get his degree and just didn't give the Flames any assurance that he'd sign when he was done (I don't even know if he legally can by the NCAA rules) and management felt he wouldn't sign at the end of his term.

It's just the reality of NCAA drafted players who need development time.

 

[Anglesmith]

The NCAA and CHL rules are different though in the sense that you can sign guys in the CHL and they can still play in the CHL. You can't sign an NCAA guy and have him play in the NCAA at the same time cause the NCAA is a corrupt **** organization. The rules favour the NCAA greatly, which itself is stupid because the NCAA is a corrupt, terrible organization.

Unless the prospect is someone like Brady Tkachuk who will definitely not stay in school in 4 years or Kyle Connor, the risk is fairly high for NCAA picks. A project pick like Janko is super risky, luckily he's a good kid and signed with us. I know some feel the loyalty argument is flawed (ie. the player should sign with their club because of loyalty), but IMO it shows the character of an individual if they choose to become a free agent instead even though it is 100% in their rights to do so.

A guy like Fox perplexes me, because my take it is this: he could have signed with us and competed for a spot in camp (essentially beating out Stone and now Andersson), and that IMO shows that he is confident in himself and if he doesn't make it he can refine his game in the AHL. However if he doesn't want to compete and thinks he deserves a spot, I don't like that entitled attitude (not saying it's there, just that this kind of thinking with some players exists). However he is also attending Harvard and if he goes through the 4 years to get his degree then that's quite impressive and he should do it, it's a Harvard degree. I again have no problem with him wanting his degree. In my opinion he straight up told management that he was staying the full 4 years to get his degree and just didn't give the Flames any assurance that he'd sign when he was done (I don't even know if he legally can by the NCAA rules) and management felt he wouldn't sign at the end of his term.

It's just the reality of NCAA drafted players who need development time.

Yeah. I solution like my suggestion would save players from the character questions that come with wanting to complete their degree, or wanting more development time, or wanting to stay on for senior year because of loyalty to the school, etc. Honest, genuine reasons. No longer would that be a reason to trade the player or drag his character through the mud. I think it helps everyone (well, everyone except the assholes who simply want to circumvent the draft).

 

[Tofveve]

What did we do? I'm late to the party but think we might have gotten shafted.

And just to think Dougie is coming off of my favorite of his as a flame. Value contract too. And young. And yet we keep Brodie who had a rough year and a bit. I'd have thought Dougie to be one of our untouchables.

Regarding Ferland, yeah, not sure about this one either. TSN has the Carolina centre as 47th in the league. This feels like a head scratcher.

Unless T has pulled a rabbit out of the hat, I'm quite nervous about this.

 

[Tkachuky]

Confident Brodie will return to form with Gio.

I am excited about the trade. Hanifin cannot be worse than a top 4 Dman (as it stands).

Super excited about Lindholm. Will be a big upgrade over Ferland anyways.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

The NCAA fix seems like an incredibly easy one on paper, although weighted against the player. It's simply about changing dates.

The current rule:

If a Player drafted at age 18 or 19 is a bona fide college student at the time of his selection in the Entry Draft, or becomes a bona fide college student prior to the first June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft, and does not remain a bona fide college student through the graduation of his college class, his drafting Club shall retain exclusive rights for the negotiation of his services until the later of: (a) the fourth June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft, or (b) thirty (30) days after NHL Central Registry receives notice that the Player is no longer a bona fide college student; provided that if the Player ceases to be a bona fide college student on or after January 1 of an academic year and the Player: (1) is in his fourth year of college and has commenced his fourth year of NCAA eligibility, or (2) is in his fourth year of college and is scheduled to graduate from college at the end of his fourth year, then in the circumstances described in (1) or (2), the Club shall retain the exclusive right of negotiation for such Player's services through and including the August 15 following the date on which he ceases to be a bona fide college student. The Club need not make a Bona Fide Offer to such Player to retain such rights.

Proposed amendment:

...his drafting Club shall retain exclusive rights for the negotiation of his services until the later of: (a) the fifth July 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft...

This provides a team control over the player's rights for the entirety of the upcoming season after their last year in college.

There also needs to be more incentive for a player who has gone through college programs, so perhaps after three years, maybe a college player's contract is not restricted to ELC rules. Basically they're a RFA after their 3rd year. If they decide to go pro before the 3rd year, and don't sign with the team that drafted them, they re-enter the draft.

I think a combination of the above would work, but in any case you'll see a change to these rules in the next CBA

 

[King In The North]

Elliotte Friedman saying that Carolina was soft to play agianst and Lindholm was part of the problem, Elliotte Friedman says that if Lindholm can add a bite to his game, he will be a very good player.

31 Thoughts, The Podcast: NHL Draft edition - Sportsnet.ca

We need skill simply put. Ferland throws his weight but that didn't propel us to become a team that's hard to play against.

Yes I know we need guys to throw hits and forcheck but this team simply didn't have enough skill upfront.

 

[The Gnome]

We need skill simply put. Ferland throws his weight but that didn't propel us to become a team that's hard to play against.

Yes I know we need guys to throw hits and forcheck but this team simply didn't have enough skill upfront.

While I do agree we need more skill, in fact another top 6 player wouldn't hurt. but we also need more guys that play hard everywhere on the ice. That's what I'm expecting from Lindholm. If defensively he can be anything like Backlund, this is a big boost to our lineup. I don't care if he lays any big hits, I just expect him to play with a purpose and be more consistent than Ferland. Canes fans seem to have a polarizing take on this aspect of his game, we'll see I guess.

 

[King In The North]

While I do agree we need more skill, in fact another top 6 player wouldn't hurt. but we also need more guys that play hard everywhere on the ice. That's what I'm expecting from Lindholm. If defensively he can be anything like Backlund, this is a big boost to our lineup. I don't care if he lays any big hits, I just expect him to play with a purpose and be more consistent than Ferland. Canes fans seem to have a polarizing take on this aspect of his game, we'll see I guess.

Oh definitely. I was under the impression Lindholm already had a good two-way game?

I also don't think Canes were bad just because they were soft. Scott Darling couldn't stop a puck and offensive depth all round was still rather thin.

 

[The Gnome]

Oh definitely. I was under the impression Lindholm already had a good two-way game?

I also don't think Canes were bad just because they were soft. Scott Darling couldn't stop a puck and offensive depth all round was still rather thin.

IF, and that is still a huge if (especially pending another big name FA), Lindholm plays on our top line I have no doubt he'll break into the 50-55 point range and that certainly isn't the ceiling. No offense to CAR but their team is pretty bad outside of a handful of guys. Lindholm will sruly be better offensively than Feralnd and bring a more complete game in general, he is without a doubt a top 6 upgrade over Feralnd.

As for Hanifin, I see a lot of doubters here and from CAR fans. But he's 21 freaking years old and plays the position (not including the bingo game that is goalies) that takes the longest development path typically. If he can hold down a top 4 spot on an inferior team, I'm betting he'll look great on our 2nd pairing.

EDIT: I am also under that impression regarding Lindholm and his two way game. Seems some CAR fans have a little salt in their mouth about him, I usually take that with a grain of salt after a trade. A lot of people here were pretty quick to jump off the Dougie bandwagon as soon as the trade was announced. Human nature for the most part, so it's always hard to gauge incoming players unless you speak with a level headed fan.

 

[Mobiandi]

31 Thoughts: All eyes on John Tavares during UFA interview period - Sportsnet.ca

After making a few calls, this is not about who’s attending team slumber parties. This is about role. Hamilton did not formally request a trade, but there is confirmation there were discussions about his spot in the lineup. There was agreement a move would be better for both sides.

The Flames wanted to re-unite TJ Brodie and Mark Giordano, which will happen. They felt Travis Hamonic would benefit from playing with a steadier partner, as opposed to Brodie, more of a jazz-musician freelancer. That would take Hamilton off the top pair, which didn’t thrill him. He also didn’t start last season on the top power play, eventually replacing Brodie midway through. That was another bone of contention. This was necessary for both player and team. Hamilton will benefit from Carolina: he hears everything. Less noise there.

Noah Hanifin and Elias Lindholm were unhappy, too. Their contract talks were difficult, with Lindholm’s last conversation ending in a blowup the day before he was traded. A lot of players eager to prove something.

 

[Anglesmith]

The NCAA fix seems like an incredibly easy one on paper, although weighted against the player. It's simply about changing dates.

The current rule:



Proposed amendment:

This provides a team control over the player's rights for the entirety of the upcoming season after their last year in college.

There also needs to be more incentive for a player who has gone through college programs, so perhaps after three years, maybe a college player's contract is not restricted to ELC rules. Basically they're a RFA after their 3rd year. If they decide to go pro before the 3rd year, and don't sign with the team that drafted them, they re-enter the draft.

I think a combination of the above would work, but in any case you'll see a change to these rules in the next CBA

In a situation where a player is not offered a contract by their team, they should be allowed to go UFA after their fourth year. Otherwise you open up the potential of a player having to basically play beer league for a season through no fault of his own. Matt DeBlouw should be able to be UFAs right away, but Adam Fox shouldn't. That's why I suggest the qualifying offer system.

 

[The Gnome]

31 Thoughts: All eyes on John Tavares during UFA interview period - Sportsnet.ca

Really cannot blame Hamilton if he was upset with his lack of PP time. f*** you GG

 

[DCDM]

31 Thoughts: All eyes on John Tavares during UFA interview period - Sportsnet.ca

Man I'm so done with hearing about "hAmIlToN wEnT tO a MuSeUm" or "hE lIkEs To ReAd haAHahAh" jesus christ. What a stupid meme.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

In a situation where a player is not offered a contract by their team, they should be allowed to go UFA after their fourth year. Otherwise you open up the potential of a player having to basically play beer league for a season through no fault of his own. Matt DeBlouw should be able to be UFAs right away, but Adam Fox shouldn't. That's why I suggest the qualifying offer system.

Yeah, it would be very similar in my mind, but no qualifying offer would necessarily have to be involved - as that could possibly violate NCAA rules. (not sure if that half baked idea properly came through between my brain and keyboard).

Player would be RFA after declaring they're going pro, and would subject to offers from other teams, but the drafting team would still have the right to match, and would receive draft pick compensation if they don't.

Could even leave it that date in August to give us another mildly interesting hockey day during the summer.

 

[Anglesmith]

Yeah, it would be very similar in my mind, but no qualifying offer would necessarily have to be involved - as that could possibly violate NCAA rules. (not sure if that half baked idea properly came through between my brain and keyboard).

Player would be RFA after declaring they're going pro, and would subject to offers from other teams, but the drafting team would still have the right to match, and would receive draft pick compensation if they don't.

Could even leave it that date in August to give us another mildly interesting hockey day during the summer.

Oh, I see. I thought you were just saying it should be 5 years if going through the NCAA.

My QO suggestion involves no contribution from the player himself. It would be submitted from the team to the league, and locks them in to offer an ELC after they leave school no matter what. That way as long as the team wants to sign the player, it makes it inconvenient for the player to circumvent the draft. If the team doesn't want to sign the player, they have the same rights they always have.

The other upside of this, to me, is that if they were to submit this after, say, one year of university, it would force a player to reveal his intentions. If he wants to go to a different team, he'd just tell his team to make it happen, because there's no point in waiting. It gives the team a chance to get the best value possible for this player as there is no rush to move him.

 

[viper0220]

Noah Hanifin interview.

http://pmd.fan960.com/audio_on_demand_2017/Boomer,-pinder-Noah-Hanifin-20180625-Interview.mp3

 

[JurassicTunga]

 

[DCDM]

I'm not much of an analytics guru so forgive me, but those look pretty encouraging, right? For all the talk Hamilton gets for spearheading the offense, it looks like Hanifin is no slouch in that department.

 

[Mr Snrub]

I'm not much of an analytics guru so forgive me, but those look pretty encouraging, right? For all the talk Hamilton gets for spearheading the offense, it looks like Hanifin is no slouch in that department.

Hanifin was also getting gifted a lot of offensive zone time. He could still get there, but as of right now, he's on a different level from where Hamilton was.