Proposal: EDM-MTL (Warning: RNH)

[A Loyal Dog]

If you traded RNH for Byron and Plekanec that easily helps Edmonton contend right now, even if it's poor value. Your fellow Oilers fans in this thread have already said the difference between RNH and Plekanec next season is minimal.

Pleks and Byron scored 70+ points last season combined. They were also one of the best PK duos in the league.

Pleky + Byron for RNH. No take backs! Done!

 

[ChaoticOrange]

What about Shaw + a 1st round pick for RNH straight up? You get a 3rd C in Shaw who plays with aggression, and a top-15 pick in a strong draft year?

My understanding is Shaw doesn't play C very well and is better on the wing.

And no. Again, I don't give away the ability to play McDavid and Drai together until the salary cap forces me to.

If both teams want to win now, then we're bad trading partners, and Habs fans seem to want to give up lesser pieces and futures, which Edmonton should not be interested in.

 

[LeafChief]

I realize that RNH did not live up to the hype of being a 1OA pick but he's a young player with a few 50+ point seasons under his belt.

He doesn't carry negative value as some people would like to make it seem.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

If you traded RNH for Byron and Plekanec that easily helps Edmonton contend right now, even if it's poor value. Your fellow Oilers fans in this thread have already said the difference between RNH and Plekanec next season is minimal.

Pleks and Byron scored 70+ points last season combined. They were also one of the best PK duos in the league.

If you ignore the fact that RNH is a 2C and Plekanec is a rapidly declining 3C ten years his senior, then sure, they're probably a little bit senior for just next season. I'd move a pick for Plekanec at the deadline but I wouldn't touch that deal as presented, it's a loser in the long run.

You also don't have me buying in with the last paragraph. Montreal was a middling PK team last year, almost a dead heat with Edmonton in PK percentage, so clearly we have guys capable of doing the same thing (Kassian, Letestu, RNH himself kills a lot of penalties).

Second, the total points combined thing doesn't make much sense either. Maroon and Letestu combined for 77 points and 43 goals, that doesn't suddenly make them worth Pacioretty or Galchenyuk, does it?

Many things have to be taken into consideration, and teams that throw away 24 year old top six centres for pending free agents and role players don't typically win much of anything.

Chiarelli's moves as the Oilers GM have all had one thing in common - they've taken the years to come in mind. When RNH does get moved I could see it being for a guy like Danault with a minor add here or there, not guys that can walk away. When he deals for veterans - like Talbot, or Kassian, or Maroon - he's the one giving up picks and prospects, and they'll be around for the long term.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

Chaotic I'll make you an offer:

Danault for RNH (1m retained)

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Chaotic I'll make you an offer:

Danault for RNH (1m retained)

Let's talk this time next year, but I wouldn't retain now and I wouldn't retain then, either.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

There's this thing called quality of competition. It's where one guy goes head to head with the elite forwards in this league and the other plays soft minutes and feeds off of lesser opponents. I'll let you guess which one does which.

Forward Quality of Competition is practically meaningless in evaluating forwards.

So 1st OA

for

Waiver wire player

late 1st

1ST round bust.

You are only right about two fo those things. Byron is not a waiver wire player anymore.

Since the 1st Rounder will likely be a top 15 in a strong draft year, I would do it.

Based on what we know from last season and the Habs current lineup, the probability of the Habs finishing top-10 in the league is higher than them finishing bottom 20, let alone bottom 15.

Funny how many think MTL is a bubble team at best (or one to miss the playoffs), but suddenly in trades, MTL's 1sts = late 1sts, lolololol. MAKE UP YOUR MIND PEOPLE!

That said, I would counter offer:

Gallagher
Plekanec (50% retained)

or

Shaw
Plekanec (50% retained)
Byron
2nd 2018

I wouldn't trade Gallagher alone for RNH. Gallagher might be the most undervalued, the most underrated and the most underestimated player based on one unlucky season that is likely to be unsustainable and during which he played with an aging center who suffered the same faith.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

If you ignore the fact that RNH is a 2C and Plekanec is a rapidly declining 3C, then sure. I'd move a pick for Plekanec at the deadline but I wouldn't touch that deal, it's a loser in the long run.

You also don't have me buying in with the last paragraph. Montreal was a middling PK team last year, almost a dead heat with Edmonton in PK percentage, so clearly we have guys capable of doing the same thing (Kassian, Letestu, RNH himself kills a lot of penalties).

Second, the total points combined thing doesn't make much sense either. Maroon and Letestu combined for 77 points and 43 goals, that doesn't suddenly make them worth Pacioretty or Galchenyuk, does it?

Many things have to be taken into consideration, and teams that throw away 24 year old top six centres for pending free agents and role players don't typically win much of anything.

You keep referring to him as a top-6 center which isn't a fact. He's proven himself as a decent #3 center with really good potential, but he doesn't even sniff the list for top-60 centers in terms of PPG. And I would take him on my team anyday but he's been labeled soft, inconsistent, and injury prone. Not to mention his defense is being vastly overrated in this thread. He had the worst +/- on the Oilers by a fair margin.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You keep referring to him as a top-6 center which isn't a fact. He's proven himself as a decent #3 center with really good potential, but he doesn't even sniff the list for top-60 centers in terms of PPG. And I would take him on my team anyday but he's been labeled soft, inconsistent, and injury prone. Not to mention his defense is being vastly overrated in this thread. He had the worst +/- on the Oilers by a fair margin.

He has three 50 point seasons under his belt. How many points do you think top 6 centres score, exactly?

Plus minus now, really? Come on, you can do better than that.

People can call him injury prone if it makes them feel better. Is Galchenyuk injury prone? Because RNH has played more games than he has the last four seasons.

Why do you even want this player? All you've done in this thread is run him down.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

He has three 50 point seasons under his belt. How many points do you think top 6 centres score, exactly?

Plus minus now, really? Come on, you can do better than that.

People can call him injury prone if it makes them feel better. Is Galchenyuk injury prone? Because RNH has played more games than he has the last four seasons.

Why do you even want this player? All you've done in this thread is run him down.

Montreal is so thin on center that if we somehow manage to trade for one they'll get the David Desharnais treatment and be given every possible opportunity to succeed. I think RNH has some untapped potential that he'll never be able to realize if he stays with the Oilers.

It doesn't mean he's an ideal option, there just aren't any #1 center options available. He's an elite 3C or a decent #2 on the Oilers, but he'd be more valuable on the Habs roster than just about any other team in the league. In Montreal he'd be our #1 option and he'd play with our top wingers every game, I don't think he'd just be the 40 point player he currently is now that McDavid is captaining the ship in Edmonton.

If he played between Pacioretty and Drouin I think he could get 55+ points his first season.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Montreal is so thin on center that if we somehow manage to trade for one they'll get the David Desharnais treatment and be given every possible opportunity to succeed. I think RNH has some untapped potential that he'll never be able to realize if he stays with the Oilers.

It doesn't mean he's an ideal option, there just aren't any #1 center options available. He's an elite 3C or a decent #2 on the Oilers, but he'd be more valuable on the Habs roster than just about any other team in the league. In Montreal he'd be our #1 option and he'd play with our top wingers every game, I don't think he'd just be the 40 point player he currently is now that McDavid is captaining the ship in Edmonton.

If he played between Pacioretty and Drouin I think he could get 55+ points his first season.

I think Edmonton will trade RNH after this season, and Montreal very well may be the landing spot, but I don't think it'll be for pending free agents. Chiarelli hasn't seemed to care much about getting picks thrown in either. A guy like Danault could very well be the target. I just don't see Byron or Plekanec, or even the two together, as making a lot of sense. Edmonton can pick up a 3C or winger depth for picks - we have all of our picks intact for the next three drafts and I'd be willing to bet we go all in at the deadline.

 

[Mr Positive]

You keep referring to him as a top-6 center which isn't a fact. He's proven himself as a decent #3 center with really good potential, but he doesn't even sniff the list for top-60 centers in terms of PPG. And I would take him on my team anyday but he's been labeled soft, inconsistent, and injury prone. Not to mention his defense is being vastly overrated in this thread. He had the worst +/- on the Oilers by a fair margin.

seems odd to me that you would say all these negative things about RNH, and yet you make a thread where you would trade to get him at full salary. You'd be penciling him in as your 1C if you got him. A lot of that is that Montreal's main weakness is at center, but it's the same story for a lot of teams. Someone will pay up for a talent like RNH, just for the hope and potential of him.

I would say that RNH didn't have a great year, but it was a year where the coach still relied on him heavily. He was our #1 center for faceoffs, was used extensively on special teams, and was used on matchups a lot. It's not hard to imagine that if you laxed his role with more offensive minutes and better linemates, that his surface stats would greatly improve.

But there is risk. With him maybe you are getting the next Mikko Koivu, or maybe he will just always be what he's been in the last few years. There's risk in any deal though.

 

[belair]

Forward Quality of Competition is practically meaningless in evaluating forwards.

By that account Sam Gagner is more valuable than both despite the fact he was sheltered as a fourth line winger last season and scored a significant number of his points on the PP.

We're comparing a 2nd line center vs a depth winger. Want a decent comparable for Paul Byron? His name is Andrew Cogliano.

 

[oilers89]

What about danault and gallagher for rnh+ a prospect ( khaira)

 

[Deficient Mode]

By that account Sam Gagner is more valuable than both despite the fact he was sheltered as a fourth line winger last season and scored a significant number of his points on the PP.

We're comparing a 2nd line center vs a depth winger. Want a decent comparable for Paul Byron? His name is Andrew Cogliano.

Quality of competition varies very little from player to player over a large sample size. Quality of teammate matters more and Nuge had better teammates on the Oil second line.

Classic case of a player remaining overrated because of his draft position rather than what he has actually done in the league.

What about danault and gallagher for rnh+ a prospect ( khaira)

No.....

 

[Flamesjustwin]

To Edmonton:

Paul Byron
2018 first
Michael McCarron

To Montreal:
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins

Fair? Over/underpayment?

Montreal hangs up. Paul Byron is not much of a downgrade from RNH and then they throw in a 1st and a good prospect for a $6M 2B centre? Nope, Habs could do better than RNH and his overpayed contract.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Oh look another handful of spare parts from Montreal for RNH.

Wash, rinse, repeat. No.

How about Maroon, 1st, and Jones for Pacioretty? Or are Hab fans only interested in giving up packages of lesser pieces for better players?

Montreal might take that.

 

[belair]

Nevermind.

 

[Draiskull]

Who what and who?

Chia might not get more than OP offer for RNH but you cant possibly find many Oilers fans who would accept an underwhelming return.

 

[JOKER 192]

#weakpost

Edmonton traded the first overall for a 3rd round pick, they sure got fleeced huh?

yes they did.

 

[ThomasG]

Not a chance

 

[JOKER 192]

In case you've never watched hockey in your life, being a 1st overall pick means absolutely nothing when considering trade value.
In addition, that "waiver wire player" scored 22 goals last year

lets see him do that again. A 23% shooting% is an anomaly . Even McDavid only shoots at 12%. So take it and run and don't hold your breathe expecting it to happen again.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

lets see him do that again. A 23% shooting% is an anomaly . Even McDavid only shoots at 12%. So take it and run and don't hold your breathe expecting it to happen again.

Not for a player the style of Byron. Lots of his goals AND shots are on breakaways. His career sh% is over 18%. It was 22% also in 2015-16. He just got more opportunities last year. If anything might go down, that's that, not his sh% - Unless he starts shooting more outside of breakaways.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Yeah, 23% is not an anomaly for a player who does such a large percentage of his shooting from breakaways. He shot above 20% in 4 of 6 seasons of his career.

 

[JOKER 192]

Not for a player the style of Byron. Lots of his goals AND shots are on breakaways. His career sh% is over 18%. It was 22% also in 2015-16. He just got more opportunities last year. If anything might go down, that's that, not his sh% - Unless he starts shooting more outside of breakaways.

And who's going to feed him these breakaway passes now that Markov is gone?