Player Discussion Dylan McIlrath Part VI

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TheLowKreider

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Aug 4, 2009
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I think AV has actually been fine with young forwards and how he handles them. It's been the defense that has been a struggle...part of it has to do with what his system asks them to do and part of it is his weird obsession with overplaying vets

The rigidity and stubborness is also a red flag. For example, needing a checking 4th line is how we lose Stempniak for nothing.

This is a talented team, but it only takes Dan Girardi playing top pair minutes to sink us. And that means less playing time for Mac, who we'll trade. Then he'll produce on a cheap RFA contract while we continue to pay bloated salaries.
 

TurgePurge*

Guest
Once upon a time Stepan, Kreider, Staal, Zuc, Brassard, Hagelin were young players who struggled and played through their mistakes.

First of all, Where does trading Cally, Dubi, DZ, Anisimov, etc. fit into that plan of playing young players through their mistakes?

Second of all, Going into 2013-14 Marc Staal had played 388 games and Brassard had played 322. So based on that one could say that Stepan, Zucc, Kreider are still young and going through mistakes. And then there is the next wave of Miller, Hayes, Fast, Lindberg, and then the next wave of Vesey, Buch, and possibly Nieves, Skjei, Dylan.

I mean maybe your point is about trading all the draft picks but how in the hell is that AV related?
 

Mac n Gs

Gorton plz
Jan 17, 2014
22,592
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Defensemen often take longer to be NHL-ready than forwards. Dylan is immediately ready for the third-pairing role and I would bet that he'd easily be able to earn that second-pairing spot with consistent playing time.
 

TurgePurge*

Guest
I think AV has actually been fine with young forwards and how he handles them. It's been the defense that has been a struggle...part of it has to do with what his system asks them to do and part of it is his weird obsession with overplaying vets

MDZ
Falk
Stralman
Moore
Kostka
Hunwick
Yandle

These are the defenseman that are still in the league or in the periphery of the league that played under AV and are gone. Stralman has obviously blossomed since he left but we all saw that when he was here. AV certainly didnt run him out of town. The rest...nish nish.

Its not like AV has had the Team North America defense to work with.
 

TurgePurge*

Guest
There's two top pairing defensemen in there. Yeah, nish nish.

DZ and Yandle?

Consensus is we benefited from the DZ for Klein trade and many vetted people in hockey have said the Yandle signing in FLA murdered the free agent market and left front office personnel league-wide in shock. So yea, disaster avoided there.
 

a tribe cq

That’s just like…your opinion man.
Jan 15, 2013
1,350
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DZ and Yandle?

Consensus is we benefited from the DZ for Klein trade and many vetted people in hockey have said the Yandle signing in FLA murdered the free agent market and left front office personnel league-wide in shock. So yea, disaster avoided there.

Stralman, not MDZ, one would assume.
 

Mandar

The Real Maven
Sep 27, 2013
4,409
4,589
The Tarheel State
Let's further deplete maybe the worst RHD group by trading away our best RHD. Ranger gonna ranger

whaaaaaaaaaaaat? Our best RHD?

True, that its slim pickings on RD, but he's the best? The guy in his 5th camp....who didn't make a good impression when the door was wide open for him? The guy who's "toughness" in the ENTIRE preseason consisted of chasing around Gudas, then getting tackled by Voracek? Can someone name me one time anyone noticed him clearing the front of the net? Or how about taking out a man in the corners....or making a crisp outlet pass in the defensive zone?

It's incredible how the rhetoric has changed on this guy. If we are crying about possibly dealing a 6/7 defenseman...to improve (which wouldn't be hard to do without him), then some have clearly entered clown territory.

His ceiling? A glorified Stu Bickel (and Stu was a RD too....)
 

Filthy Dangles

Registered User*
Oct 23, 2014
28,712
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whaaaaaaaaaaaat? Our best RHD?

True, that its slim pickings on RD, but he's the best? The guy in his 5th camp....who didn't make a good impression when the door was wide open for him? The guy who's "toughness" in the ENTIRE preseason consisted of chasing around Gudas, then getting tackled by Voracek? Can someone name me one time anyone noticed him clearing the front of the net? Or how about taking out a man in the corners....or making a crisp outlet pass in the defensive zone?

It's incredible how the rhetoric has changed on this guy. If we are crying about possibly dealing a 6/7 defenseman...to improve (which wouldn't be hard to do without him), then some have clearly entered clown territory.

His ceiling? A better Michael Sauer



I guess Kleins better but not by much. That guy #5 should be in a hockey nursing home and Clendenning is just PP specialist turnstyle.

And his ceiling...lol that's insulting to the kid, he could be a better skating/puck moving Mike Sauer.
 

smoneil

Registered User
Jul 14, 2004
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MDZ
Falk
Stralman
Moore
Kostka
Hunwick
Yandle

These are the defenseman that are still in the league or in the periphery of the league that played under AV and are gone. Stralman has obviously blossomed since he left but we all saw that when he was here. AV certainly didnt run him out of town. The rest...nish nish.

Its not like AV has had the Team North America defense to work with.

Of that list, Yandle, Stralman, and MDZ have been top pair (at worst #3) defensemen for the last couple of years. Hunwick and Moore are serviceable bottom pair guys. Yeah, Kostka and Falk suck, but the rest of that list isn't half bad.
 

Thordic

StraightOuttaConklin
Jul 12, 2006
3,013
722
MDZ
Falk
Stralman
Moore
Kostka
Hunwick
Yandle

These are the defenseman that are still in the league or in the periphery of the league that played under AV and are gone. Stralman has obviously blossomed since he left but we all saw that when he was here. AV certainly didnt run him out of town. The rest...nish nish.

Its not like AV has had the Team North America defense to work with.

Without respect to sides,

Stralman - MDZ
Yandle - Moore
Kostka - Hunwick

That's not a good NHL defense, but that's likely better than what Las Vegas will start with (outside of Kostka). That top pair would be better than a few teams in the league.
 

bhamill

Registered User
Apr 16, 2012
3,859
4,577
I think it would be a mistake to trade McI for the sake of trading him or to make room for Clendening. (of course if you are getting something of greater value, you have to go for it)
Right now, IMO McI is already a better all round DEFENSEman than Clendening with far less of an opportunity to play regularly in this league.
Clendening is a decent puck moving Dman, not great in his own zone and an asset on the PP. More to the point there is nothing special about him, players like him come along fairly often. He is not a difficult piece to replace. AND he has reached his potential, there's nothing more you are going to get from him.
IMO right now, McI is a decent third pairing Dman with a very good shot, better in his own end than Clendening, FAR more physical, a player that makes opponents keep their heads up and think twice, and a player that has shown flashes of genuine leadership ability. AND he may not even be that close to his ceiling yet. He hasn't had the opportunity Clendening has had, and he hasn't had the same amount of time to develop as other players his age due to injuries, on top of which larger dmen take longer to develop in the first place. There is a decent chance that McIlrath will become an important player on an NHL team, there is practically no chance of that for Clendening. Why on earth would you keep a far more easily replaceable player that has far less possible upside over a player that is harder to find and hasn't even reached his ceiling, when the players are already so even in NHL capability? I just think that's totally irrational. And I believe Gorton will see it the same way.
Anyhow, I guess we will find out soon enough.
BTW, be prepared for the Flyers to grab Dylan if he goes on waivers, if someone else doesn't first.
 

TheLowKreider

Registered User
Aug 4, 2009
938
7
Jesus Christ - Stu Bickel? He was an AHL defenseman parked on the bench in a 3-OT game.

By any measure of observation McI is at the very least a competent bottom pair defenseman. His skating is nowhere near as bad as its made out to be, especially for his size. He's got a cannon for a shot and arguably was the best at making the first pass out of the defensive zone.

Good possession metrics on an otherwise awful ****ing possession team. Maybe that's due to playing with Yandle, but then again neither Yandle nor McDonagh could make certain other defensemen on this team look as good as McI did.

24 year old defensemen tend to get better when they're given consistent playing time and the opportunity to make mistakes and learn from them. Young, cost-controlled, with a decently high ceiling. We should be adding to that group not subtracting.
 

Thordic

StraightOuttaConklin
Jul 12, 2006
3,013
722
At this point I almost hope he gets traded so he can salvage his career before AV wastes it.
 

Beacon

Embrace the tank
May 28, 2007
13,676
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Just thinking about it, had we kept Yandle and Stralman instead of Staal and Girardi, we'd be real Cup contenders right now.
 

gorangers0525

Registered User
Dec 15, 2014
2,751
687
MDZ
Falk
Stralman
Moore
Kostka
Hunwick
Yandle

These are the defenseman that are still in the league or in the periphery of the league that played under AV and are gone. Stralman has obviously blossomed since he left but we all saw that when he was here. AV certainly didnt run him out of town. The rest...nish nish.

Its not like AV has had the Team North America defense to work with.

Yandle-Stralman
Mdz-hunwick
Kostja-Moore


Is not much/if any worse than the Ranger's current D lineup lol...and it's still bad.
 

haveandare

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
18,947
7,491
New York
If we move him to keep a career journeyman based on a good camp I'm going to have to really, really question the logic.

We could have a second pair of Yandle and McI right now. Huge, huge missed opportunity.
 

haveandare

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
18,947
7,491
New York
whaaaaaaaaaaaat? Our best RHD?

True, that its slim pickings on RD, but he's the best? The guy in his 5th camp....who didn't make a good impression when the door was wide open for him? The guy who's "toughness" in the ENTIRE preseason consisted of chasing around Gudas, then getting tackled by Voracek? Can someone name me one time anyone noticed him clearing the front of the net? Or how about taking out a man in the corners....or making a crisp outlet pass in the defensive zone?

It's incredible how the rhetoric has changed on this guy. If we are crying about possibly dealing a 6/7 defenseman...to improve (which wouldn't be hard to do without him), then some have clearly entered clown territory.

His ceiling? A glorified Stu Bickel (and Stu was a RD too....)

He made plenty of nice breakout passes. There was one to Hayes that I remember in particular in the last game against the isles. He also got plenty of shots through compared to any of our other dmen.

Based on that article they're not trading him to improve they're trading him because clendenning was good in preseason of his hundredth team over his short career so far.
 

Inferno

Registered User
Nov 27, 2005
29,681
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Atlanta, GA
It's not even like he had a bad camp, he had a bad preseason game.

he had 1.5 bad preseason games. Girardi has had 3 straight bad years in a row...including a HORRIBLE preseason that was worse than McIlraths.

at this point, ive given up on the future of this team as long as AV is behind the bench.
 

Ghost of jas

Unsatisfied
Feb 27, 2002
27,188
13,601
NJ
he had 1.5 bad preseason games. Girardi has had 3 straight bad years in a row...including a HORRIBLE preseason that was worse than McIlraths.

at this point, ive given up on the future of this team as long as AV is behind the bench.

Agreed...I have very little confidence in AV making the correct decisions regarding the defense.
 

Inferno

Registered User
Nov 27, 2005
29,681
7,949
Atlanta, GA
Clendening was also only good for 1 game...i think the rest he was very blah. overall i dont think the difference between McIlrath and Clendening was big enough to just dump McIlrath. and frankly i think both of them need to stay and a guy like Klein who has real value, could be used to help us elsewhere, and isnt really a part of this team going forward.

this isnt a cup contender this year, and wont be till our defense is fixed...assets need to be moved...but regardless, while our coach is our coach, i have zero faith in this team. its a shame..its probably good enough to make the playoffs without AV behind the bench...at this point, i thnk we're ~8-10 in the East.
 
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