Friedman: Dvorak’s name is out there, Minnesota interested (again)

[AKL]

as naturally as you would ignore everything else I said to make a sarcastic point, but I mean I get it.

Both teams have new GMs since the last time the two teams were reported to have talked about it, so I'm not sure I see the value in discussing the rest of your post as it pertains to (presumably) Rossi for Dvorak.

It's a given that the Wild are going to have to pay a cost that Arizona deems worth giving up Dvorak for, that's how trades work. You didn't say much. That doesn't mean the cost includes Rossi.

 

[ctmagic]

Rossi has bluechip potential, Dvorak is a 2/3c on a good team. I think a big add would be required from AZ tbh.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I was going to say it's missing something, but we actually already got Galchenyuk

Funny that he actually gets to be dropped from both sides of the equation.

If this trade somehow goes down like this, I won't know what to do.

 

[RABBIT]

At least you're trying

I mean not one Coyotes fan has said this is a fair deal value-wise. As hockey fans, imagine if the tables were turned. You don’t need to trade a player on your team who plays a highly coveted position, is young, and signed to a very fair contract. Would you accept a fair deal or would you scream overpayment like we are?

 

[RABBIT]

Both teams have new GMs since the last time the two teams were reported to have talked about it, so I'm not sure I see the value in discussing the rest of your post as it pertains to (presumably) Rossi for Dvorak.

It's a given that the Wild are going to have to pay a cost that Arizona deems worth giving up Dvorak for, that's how trades work. You didn't say much. That doesn't mean the cost includes Rossi.

I don’t see how focusing on the fact that both teams have a new GM’s negates my point that the Coyotes would be dumb to take a fair deal for a player they probably don’t even want to trade. The “want” from the Wild is still there. We could talk in circles, but I think we both agree deep down that it wouldn’t make sense for either team to cave in.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Rossi has bluechip potential, Dvorak is a 2/3c on a good team. I think a big add would be required from AZ tbh.

Rossi had some pretty severe COVID related complications- it’s unclear if they will affect him longterm or not. He just recently started skating again.

Sure he has potential to be a top 6 center, he also has potential to bust. I think straight up Dvorak (considering his contract) is worth more than Rossi, no way Arizona “adds something big”

 

[TaLoN]

Rossi had some pretty severe COVID related complications- it’s unclear if they will affect him longterm or not. He just recently started skating again.

Sure he has potential to be a top 6 center, he also has potential to bust. I think straight up Dvorak (considering his contract) is worth more than Rossi, no way Arizona “adds something big”

Just understand, Rossi and Boldy are off the table.

If you can't think of what else might be a basis for a fair deal, then fans here won't agree on one at all at this point.

 

[AKL]

I mean not one Coyotes fan has said this is a fair deal value-wise. As hockey fans, imagine if the tables were turned. You don’t need to trade a player on your team who plays a highly coveted position, is young, and signed to a very fair contract. Would you accept a fair deal or would you scream overpayment like we are?

It's like me posting a thread about the rumor that Dumba is being shopped, and then saying I'll only trade him for Jamie Drysdale or Bowen Byram. It's fine if that's what I want to do, but it doesn't mean if a deal actually happens, that's what I'm going to get.

 

[rt]

Khusnutdinov - 1st - 2nd

for

Dvorak

???

I’d probably take Khusnutdinov in the top 15-20 of this draft if he were available. But I still probably wouldn’t pull the trigger on that.

Dvorak is tremendously important in all facets. Does 100% of the dirty work for his linemates, extremely disciplined, never makes a mistake, supremely intelligent, works his ass off on and off the ice, leader (Matt Tkachuk said he’s the best captain he’s had), good on draws and deadly in the shootout. Trust him with a minute left up by a goal or down by a goal.

His contract is fantastic and he’s just entering his prime. Injuries derailed a ton of his very early development, so he’s not exactly WYSIWYG. Especially considering he’s coming from a team that’s an offensive black hole with an inept head coach who couldn’t do anything right. There’s actually upside, here.

Minnesota fans are some of the best on HF. Very reasonable. And I LOVE their prospect pool. So it’s hard for me to be such an ass about this. But I just can’t see why AZ would move a cost controlled, young, versatile center that’s a consummate pro. The Coyotes need two more Dvoraks, not one less. I’m hoping Barrett Hayton can at least just be another Dvorak.

Arizona should not be looking to deal him. Arizona had absolutely no need to deal him. So from my perspective, I’d have to be convinced. Rossi does that. Khusnutdinov doesn’t.

 

[rt]

Just understand, Rossi and Boldy are off the table.

If you can't think of what else might be a basis for a fair deal, then fans here won't agree on one at all at this point.

I’m honestly not sure I’d even do Dvorak for Boldy. I watched John Chayka dump all of his assets into a bunch of wingers. It doesn’t work. Boldy is better than any prospect we have in our system. He’s an ace prospect. I have nothing negative to say. He’s a winger. That gives me pause.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Just understand, Rossi and Boldy are off the table.

If you can't think of what else might be a basis for a fair deal, then fans here won't agree on one at all at this point.

I’m not proposing anything or trying to make a deal- I’m not a fan of either of these 2 teams.


I’m just responding to the guy saying there’s have to be a big add on Dvorak to get Rossi and that’s simply not true. It’s a classic example of overrating the value of prospects on this site.

Dvorak is a proven young 2nd line center with a good contract, that’s worth more than a prospect who if everything works out will be a top 6 center. And that’s ignoring Rossi’s health concerns.

 

[rt]

I’m not proposing anything or trying to make a deal- I’m not a fan of either of these 2 teams.


I’m just responding to the guy saying there’s have to be a big add on Dvorak to get Rossi and that’s simply not true. It’s a classic example of overrating the value of prospects on this site.

I’d agree to eat Rask as a dump. I’d throw in Christian Fischer, if they want. But apart from that, wouldn’t be adding anything.

I wish Vegas had a worse contract than Holden. Or at least a couple more like that. Would be intrigued if there was a way to get Krebs for Dvorak if we let them chuck in some dead cap or bad players. But they just don’t have a Rask.

 

[AKL]

I’d agree to eat Rask as a dump. I’d throw in Christian Fischer, if they want. But apart from that, wouldn’t be adding anything.

I wish Vegas had a worse contract than Holden. Or at least a couple more like that. Would be intrigued if there was a way to get Krebs for Dvorak if we let them chuck in some dead cap or bad players. But they just don’t have a Rask.

You're not doing a whole lot by taking one year of Rask and adding in a fourth liner.

 

[rt]

You're not doing a whole lot by taking one year of Rask and adding in a fourth liner.

I won’t argue with that.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

.......this is the guy the Leafs should go after.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Dvorak for Rask and Rossi.

Wow yikes.

The overrating of Dvorak is quite interesting.

 

[McJedi]

It's like me posting a thread about the rumor that Dumba is being shopped, and then saying I'll only trade him for Jamie Drysdale or Bowen Byram. It's fine if that's what I want to do, but it doesn't mean if a deal actually happens, that's what I'm going to get.

Kevin Fiala then? This will cost the Wild a major asset. Yotes don’t want Dumba so we’re at Fiala, Rossi and Boldy if you assume Brodin is off the table. You took Rossi and Boldy off the table so that leaves Fiala.

greenway and picks is just quantity for quality. No reason for the Yotes to make that kind of trade. You’re adding a core piece. You’ll need to subtract a core piece.

 

[AKL]

Kevin Fiala then? This will cost the Wild a major asset. Yotes don’t want Dumba so we’re at Fiala, Rossi and Boldy if you assume Brodin is off the table. You took Rossi and Boldy off the table so that leaves Fiala.

greenway and picks is just quantity for quality. No reason for the Yotes to make that kind of trade. You’re adding a core piece. You’ll need to subtract a core piece.

Newhook for Soucy? I don't know. Rantanen for Dumba? I can't figure this one out. We don't want Compher for Dumba so I guess Rantanen is the next logical step. You took Byram off the table so I'm not sure how you expect to land Greenway.

 

[McJedi]

Newhook for Soucy? I don't know. Rantanen for Dumba? I can't figure this one out. We don't want Compher for Dumba so I guess Rantanen is the next logical step.

Dvorak is a 2C on a good contract. He’s worth a lot. Your irrational whining doesn’t change that and make him less valuable. He’s probably there with Fiala for value. He’s worth a Boldy too. He’s worth more than Rask and picks. You don’t even have good picks to offer. Low 1sts in a week draft will fetch something, but not a young cost controlled 2C.

and Minnesota will need those ELCs for the dead cap hits they’ll take over the next three seasons after this one.

having ~$15mm of dead cap space for a few years in a flat cap environment won’t make the GMs job easy.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

If I were the Sabres GM, I’d absolutely offer the Sabres 2nd for Dvorak. The 1st is too high of a pick, so there’d need to be another piece going back.

2nd + Bryson for Dvorak? Ryan Johnson + Cederquist or Konecny for Dvorak? Both Cederquist and Konecny can play wing or centre

 

[Name Nameless]

I love Fiala as a player, but I love Dvorak being a natural center with a secured team friendly contract more. Arizona will want a young player that’s not due for an expensive contract that can grow with the team for the next couple of years, as we most likely won’t be competitive. Trading for a winger like Fiala makes no sense, as Fiala doesn’t fit the plan of developing and building through the draft.

Fiala should rank high on a list of "most overrated player by own fans" IMHO. But apart from that, I agree with you.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Fiala should rank high on a list of "most overrated player by own fans" IMHO. But apart from that, I agree with you.

We just see what he's done with what he's had to work with for 2 seasons now, albeit shortened seasons.

 

[ref19]

Fiala should rank high on a list of "most overrated player by own fans" IMHO. But apart from that, I agree with you.

lol that's certainly a headscratcher.

 

[AKL]

Fiala should rank high on a list of "most overrated player by own fans" IMHO. But apart from that, I agree with you.

It seems like a lot of people who don't actually watch him or the Wild feel this way.

 

[AKL]

Here's a list of some players Fiala has produced similarly to, while playing with garbage can linemates for the last two years:

Barzal
Gaudreau
Nylander
Svechnikov
M. Tkachuk
Boeser
DeBrincat
Konecny
Hertl
Forsberg

Some other guys he's ahead of:

Laine
Reinhart
Horvat
Seguin
Karlsson
Vrana
Mantha
Garland

If someone could point out to me which of these players played with the likes of Marcus Johansson, Victor Rask, Ryan Hartman, and washed up versions of Mikko Koivu and Eric Staal, I'd be open to discussing the level of player he is further.