Friedman: Dvorak’s name is out there, Minnesota interested (again)

[Digitalbooya]

Fair assessment. With that dead cap entry level players will be very important.

Does the buyout mean Dumba is protected now? So Soucy will be exposed? Or does Minnesota go 4 and 4?

The guy I would really want is Greenway. Dvorak for Greenway?

Wild almost have to go 7-3-1 in order to expose a dman with the required games.

I offered Greenway+1st for Dvorak, but it didn't really gain any traction.

 

[Heldig]

Wild almost have to go 7-3-1 in order to expose a dman with the required games.

I offered Greenway+1st for Dvorak, but it didn't really gain any traction.

I would be tempted.

 

[TaLoN]

Simply a centre vs winger bias. Plus, what is Boldy in the NHL? A 2nd line winger?

I don't know what Minnesota (fans) are thinking. The premise of the thread is Minnesota is asking about Dvorak, the Coyotes #1 C (by default), a good 2 way C signed for 4 more years at a value contract. Presumably, it is a move by Minnesota to get better NOW. That usually means trading futures for someone who makes the team better immediately.

And IF you trade for Eichel then you plan to compete for the next 5 years.

Minnesota (fans) are thinking, based on yesterday's news and what Guerin said yesterday about players on ELCs needing to come in and make an impact. If Guerin is talking about Dvorak, he's not also trading either of his top two ELC impact players in the deal, no matter how much Arizona (fans) want him to.

 

[Heldig]

Minnesota (fans) are thinking, based on yesterday's news and what Guerin said yesterday about players on ELCs needing to come in and make an impact. If Guerin is talking about Dvorak, he's not also trading either of his top two ELC impact players in the deal, no matter how much Arizona (fans) want him to.

No problem, we have agreed to base it around Greenway now. In fact, a Minnesota fan proposed Dvorak for Greenway and a 1st.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

No problem, we have agreed to base it around Greenway now. In fact, a Minnesota fan proposed Dvorak for Greenway and a 1st.

Greenway + #25 for Dvorak. id be ok with this.

 

[TaLoN]

No problem, we have agreed to base it around Greenway now. In fact, a Minnesota fan proposed Dvorak for Greenway and a 1st.

Which was already suggested the day before, but was turned down before after this same explanation was given yesterday...

 

[Heldig]

Which was already suggested the day before, but was turned down before after this same explanation was given yesterday...

Maybe Wild fans have educated us Coyotes fans (maybe only me) about his relative value.
Plus, I really like Greenway.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

1st on top of greenway? No shot. Greenway paced for more points than Dvorak, is younger, and is 6’6. If you’re going to place that much value on position, it’s maybe a 2nd max.

 

[57special]

I offered Greenway+1st for Dvorak, but it didn't really gain any traction.

Not saying that ARI should take it ( as MN fans can understand more than most what it's like to not have C'), but that's a decent offer.

 

[57special]

1st on top of greenway? No shot. Greenway paced for more points than Dvorak, is younger, and is 6’6. If you’re going to place that much value on position, it’s maybe a 2nd max.

Maybe we should just send Bjugstad- he's 6'6". ARI fans won't notice the difference.

 

[rt]

Greenway + #25 for Dvorak. id be ok with this.

No thanks from Arizona.

 

[Digitalbooya]

1st on top of greenway? No shot. Greenway paced for more points than Dvorak, is younger, and is 6’6. If you’re going to place that much value on position, it’s maybe a 2nd max.

I'm willing to give that little extra if they want it

 

[Dead Coyote]

Dvorak has yet to the see any offensive help from coaching, lines, or depth whatsoever. Not worried about someone who can already produce on their own, is excellent as both a center and a two way player, does everything right, and has no issues whatsoever. He is what he is. There's no glaring weaknesses or things he needs to work on a bunch to elevate his game.

As far as I'm concerned, you put him in the right situation and he'll flourish. We have yet to do anything approaching that. To say he's a middling 2C who has never put up 20 goals is laughable. Sure, and Rossi is too small for the NHL and will amount to nothing because he needs to be sheltered and teams will figure out his schtick after a year. /s

He has already become better than many 2nd round picks. He's arguably the 3rd best center from his draft. The other 2 are Reinhart and Draisatl.

We played the decomposing corpse of Derek Stepan as our 1C for years instead of Dvorak.

And with our center depth, there is not a snowball's chance in hell that if we want to do anything in the next 5 years that we're trading Dvorak.

There is no reason to trade him, and there is no reason to accept any offer that isn't overpayment and doesn't address our needs. I would certainly hope that GMBA sees this, he seems competent. Perhaps only time will tell.

 

[AKL]

He has already become better than many 2nd round picks. He's arguably the 3rd best center from his draft. The other 2 are Reinhart and Draisatl.

I'd wonder if Brayden Point or Dylan Larkin have any opinions on your ranks.

 

[Golden Gophers 4649]

I love the Wild fans on here, but I highly doubt there’s any way Armstrong gives up a 25 year old center, signed for 4 more years at 4.5m for anything less than Rossi or Boldy.

I don’t see a late 1st and/or a winger like Fiala or Greenway snagging a young center on that contract, especially considering that the Wild are seemingly the inquiring party.

Guess there is no trade to be made then.

Rossi had some pretty severe COVID related complications- it’s unclear if they will affect him longterm or not. He just recently started skating again.

Sure he has potential to be a top 6 center, he also has potential to bust. I think straight up Dvorak (considering his contract) is worth more than Rossi, no way Arizona “adds something big”

So, the Wild are going to sell low on a blue chip prospect when there is ZERO reason to believe he won't come back better than ever. I'm certainly more confident in Rossi making a return to good health than I would say for Eichel.

I love it when two fan bases turn to insults over trade offers. One of the reasons I took a years long holiday from this site was Oiler fans laughing at Jonas Brodin and Jared Spurgeon's value in trade offers.

Might be time to extend my retirement from HF.

 

[keppel146]

I love it when two fan bases turn to insults over trade offers. One of the reasons I took a years long holiday from this site was Oiler fans laughing at Jonas Brodin and Jared Spurgeon's value in trade offers.

Might be time to extend my retirement from HF.

Yeah people forget this is all just fun/speculation

 

[RABBIT]

Guess there is no trade to be made then.

agreed, but I’m rooting for the Wild (even though we’ll probably hate each other soon as division rivals.) Y’all have a solid fan base

 

[Dead Coyote]

I'd wonder if Brayden Point or Dylan Larkin have any opinions on your ranks.

Dvorak is everything Point is but plays for the Coyotes. Larkin is relied on as a 1C. Dvorak is not. They put up pretty similar point totals though, as a whole.

Do they agree with me? Probably not! Do I care? No! And I also don't care if you agree with me, you and plenty of others have made your opinions known and that's fine.

Of course, as I said, it's completely arguable. Point (excuse my pun) remains that he's far from a middling 2C.

 

[AKL]

Dvorak is everything Point is but plays for the Coyotes. Larkin is relied on as a 1C. Dvorak is not. They put up pretty similar point totals though, as a whole.

Do they agree with me? Probably not! Do I care? No! And I also don't care if you agree with me, you and plenty of others have made your opinions known and that's fine.

Of course, as I said, it's completely arguable. Point (excuse my pun) remains that he's far from a middling 2C.

You haven't done anything to show this other than say that your opinion is that Dvorak is better than Point and Larkin. Which is a pretty strong stance to take.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

You haven't done anything to show this other than say that your opinion is that Dvorak is better than Point and Larkin. Which is a pretty strong stance to take.

And that Reinhart is a better center than both of those guys too.

 

[AKL]

And that Reinhart is a better center than both of those guys too.

At least we can all agree on Draisaitl being top two.

 

[Legegendsofthenorth]

Fair assessment. With that dead cap entry level players will be very important.

Does the buyout mean Dumba is protected now? So Soucy will be exposed? Or does Minnesota go 4 and 4?

The guy I would really want is Greenway. Dvorak for Greenway?

Done, you can't take it back

 

[Dead Coyote]

You haven't done anything to show this other than say that your opinion is that Dvorak is better than Point and Larkin. Which is a pretty strong stance to take.

It doesn't matter what I say. Everything has already been said by RT and plenty of others in this thread. Maybe you didn't read it.

Dvorak faces high quality opponents, significant time in the d-zone, plays on the arguably worst offensive team in the league, and has 2 stones attached to his side every year. He still creates his own offense and puts up a pretty decent PPG all while being excellent at defending, hard working, captain material type player.

He was injured in his draft year and fell to the second round because of it, when he was paired with talent he put up some of the highest point totals on a great team. He was put into a position to succeed and he did, all while being stellar defensively. And a good center.

He has continued to be those things in Arizona but has been surrounded by talent worse than a CHL team.

There are 5 centers above him in points for his draft, sure! Let's say hypothetically he is the 6th worst center from that draft. He's still better defensively than any of those bar Point and maybe Draisatl or Reinhart. He's still on a worse offensive team than all of them. And he certainly has much worse linemates than at least half of those players. No idea who McCann and Bennett play with, but they're probably better than the garbage Dvorak deals with.

To me, all of this adds up that we haven't seen Dvorak's full potential, maybe we never will. To me, if he's putting up ~50 points and ~20 goals on the 2nd line as a Coyote, how many is he putting up next to actual talent? How many does he put up next to Fiala or Kaprisov? What about Hornqvist, Duclair, Huberdeau or Vatrano? What about Athanasiou, Nyquist, Mantha or Bertuzzi? Guentzel? Zucker? I'd even take Rust over 90% of the forwards on our roster, who he doesn't play with anyways.

Don't even get me started on the shit Point gets to play with.

I'm still pretty damn sure that Christian Dvorak will be a hell of a player one day, and that his value is much higher than people think. Let alone getting into the talk of unproven prospect vs player, winger vs center, or the thought of potential in the future, he's a good player right now, for this team, is exactly what we need, and if we trade him it will be another few years of pure tank and rebuild. All there is to it.

If you want to get him from a team that needs him, has no reason to move him, and are rivals competing for the same spot, then you better damn well be prepared to give up something you don't want to.

And if you aren't, well, that's okay, we're all just shit talking on a forum at the end of the day, no big deal.

 

[AKL]

It doesn't matter what I say. Everything has already been said by RT and plenty of others in this thread. Maybe you didn't read it.

Dvorak faces high quality opponents, significant time in the d-zone, plays on the arguably worst offensive team in the league, and has 2 stones attached to his side every year. He still creates his own offense and puts up a pretty decent PPG all while being excellent at defending, hard working, captain material type player.

He was injured in his draft year and fell to the second round because of it, when he was paired with talent he put up some of the highest point totals on a great team. He was put into a position to succeed and he did, all while being stellar defensively. And a good center.

He has continued to be those things in Arizona but has been surrounded by talent worse than a CHL team.

There are 5 centers above him in points for his draft, sure! Let's say hypothetically he is the 6th worst center from that draft. He's still better defensively than any of those bar Point and maybe Draisatl or Reinhart. He's still on a worse offensive team than all of them. And he certainly has much worse linemates than at least half of those players. No idea who McCann and Bennett play with, but they're probably better than the garbage Dvorak deals with.

To me, all of this adds up that we haven't seen Dvorak's full potential, maybe we never will. To me, if he's putting up ~50 points and ~20 goals on the 2nd line as a Coyote, how many is he putting up next to actual talent? How many does he put up next to Fiala or Kaprisov? What about Hornqvist, Duclair, Huberdeau or Vatrano? What about Athanasiou, Nyquist, Mantha or Bertuzzi? Guentzel? Zucker? I'd even take Rust over 90% of the forwards on our roster, who he doesn't play with anyways.

Don't even get me started on the shit Point gets to play with.

I'm still pretty damn sure that Christian Dvorak will be a hell of a player one day, and that his value is much higher than people think. Let alone getting into the talk of unproven prospect vs player, winger vs center, or the thought of potential in the future, he's a good player right now, for this team, is exactly what we need, and if we trade him it will be another few years of pure tank and rebuild. All there is to it.

If you want to get him from a team that needs him, has no reason to move him, and are rivals competing for the same spot, then you better damn well be prepared to give up something you don't want to.

And if you aren't, well, that's okay, we're all just shit talking on a forum at the end of the day, no big deal.

I never realized players like Taylor Hall, Phil Kessel, Connor Garland, Clayton Keller and Nick Schmaltz were such awful players. I'm surprised you guys aren't dead last every season with all that talent that isn't even CHL level.

 

[Dead Coyote]

I never realized players like Taylor Hall, Phil Kessel, Connor Garland, Clayton Keller and Nick Schmaltz were such awful players. I'm surprised you guys aren't dead last every season with all that talent that isn't even CHL level.

Are you deliberately misinterpreting my sentences to be an ass?

Because I pretty clearly said he wasn't surrounded by talent. He didn't play with Hall. He's barely played with Kessel. He's barely played with Garland. He's barely played with Keller or Schmaltz. Two good players on his lines? Pretty f***in rare mate.