Player Discussion Duncan Keith

[Bryanbryoil]

As A leader, if it was true that he knew, then he should've spoken up about it.
As A leader, his should be confronting the wrongdoing, especially when it's happening in his immediate circle of people (teammate + equipment manager).

Also calling it wrongdoing is pretty bullshit, it was a f***ing felony. This isn't something innocent like hazing a rookie by making him pay for dinner and purposely ordering thousands of dollars worth of food (which while morally questionable, it's not illegal). It was sexual assault and rape.

So what are you asking us to tone down? None of what's been discussed here is over the line. Btw, this isn't just directed at Keith. This is everyone in that locker room and organization. Anyone who was there, and especially those in a position of power (ie. captain, assistant captains, coaches, assistant coaches, GM, and other management) had a responsibility to say something.

I agree that if he and others knew, that they should've spoken up about it. However we do not know why they decided not to. Sadly, listening to what has happened with Theo Fleury, Dan Carcillo, etc. it seems like this kind of assault is or at least was not that uncommon in hockey and other sports.

The question is, if many people were aware, why the secrecy? Are we to believe that there wasn't at least 1 person that would stand up for what is right?

The toning down part is because this is a player with a young family that has just been traded here. I don't think that he should be pulled apart by horses at noon when we don't know all of the specifics and are only hearing one side of the story.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I agree that if he and others knew, that they should've spoken up about it. However we do not know why they decided not to. Sadly, listening to what has happened with Theo Fleury, Dan Carcillo, etc. it seems like this kind of assault is or at least was not that uncommon in hockey and other sports.

The question is, if many people were aware, why the secrecy? Are we to believe that there wasn't at least 1 person that would stand up for what is right?

The toning down part is because this is a player with a young family that has just been traded here. I don't think that he should be pulled apart by horses at noon when we don't know all of the specifics and are only hearing one side of the story.

I'm not going to speculate or be upset at Keith for something we know nothing about.

If something comes out I'll deal with it then. Until then, it's nothing for me in relation to Keith

 

[space321]

I agree that if he and others knew, that they should've spoken up about it. However we do not know why they decided not to. Sadly, listening to what has happened with Theo Fleury, Dan Carcillo, etc. it seems like this kind of assault is or at least was not that uncommon in hockey and other sports.

The question is, if many people were aware, why the secrecy? Are we to believe that there wasn't at least 1 person that would stand up for what is right?

The toning down part is because this is a player with a young family that has just been traded here. I don't think that he should be pulled apart by horses at noon when we don't know all of the specifics and are only hearing one side of the story.

Well, do you think these incidents are rare in hockey? I don't. This is not an isolated case. It's kept secret because that's just what hockey culture does. It's a toxic culture ran by people in power who are all interconnected.

Also no one's tearing his family apart, stop being melodramatic.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Well, do you think these incidents are rare in hockey? I don't. This is not an isolated case. It's kept secret because that's just what hockey culture does. It's a toxic culture ran by people in power who are all interconnected.

Also no one's tearing his family apart, stop being melodramatic.

No I don't which is why I mentioned those other incidents.

He has a young child that lives in western Canada. I never said that it was tearing his family apart. But yeah, let's run his name through the mud when we don't know all of the details.

 

[bobbythebrain]

As A leader, if it was true that he knew, then he should've spoken up about it.
As A leader, his should be confronting the wrongdoing, especially when it's happening in his immediate circle of people (teammate + equipment manager).

Also calling it wrongdoing is pretty bullshit, it was a f***ing felony. This isn't something innocent like hazing a rookie by making him pay for dinner and purposely ordering thousands of dollars worth of food (which while morally questionable, it's not illegal). It was sexual assault and rape.

So what are you asking us to tone down? None of what's been discussed here is over the line. Btw, this isn't just directed at Keith. This is everyone in that locker room and organization. Anyone who was there, and especially those in a position of power (ie. captain, assistant captains, coaches, assistant coaches, GM, and other management) had a responsibility to say something.

Nothing more disgusting aside from the act in question is somebody on the internet passionately taking a side without zero fact or context of what actually transpired, without all the facts and the facts that were known at the time, or how they were presented to said 2nd party individuals

It's lazy journalism. Look at people like Richard Jewel who had their credibility uprooted by people who perceive to have a higher moral ground with limited information and slanted context. You can't undo that clock

This whole talking point really does not belong on this forum as the information being leaked is from untrustworthy sources, and a player like Keith shouldn't have his name discussed unless there is undisputable evidence to the contrary. Even the slightest mis-information can tarnish him and is generally irreparable definitively

Just look at this discussion, it's pure speculation already and undoubtedly there are masses of people taking sides and already making conclusions. It's human nature, and it trumps facts 99.9% of the time

 

[space321]

Nothing more disgusting aside from the act in question is somebody on the internet passionately taking a side without zero fact or context of what actually transpired, without all the facts and the facts that were known at the time, or how they were presented to said individuals

It's lazy journalism. Look at people like Richard Jewel who had their credibility uprooted by people who perceive to have a higher moral ground with limited information and slanted context

This whole talking point really does not belong on this forum as the information being leaked is from untrustworthy sources, and a player like Keith shouldn't have his name discussed unless there is undisputable evidence to the contrary. Even the slightest mis-information can tarnish him and is generally irreparable definitively

Just look at this discussion, it's pure speculation already and undoubtedly there are masses of people taking sides and already making conclusions. It's human nature, and it trumps facts 99.9% of the time

Untrustworthy sources regarding what? It's in the words of the victim, so you're starting point is that the victim is untrustworthy?

Also, I never named Keith as one of the abusers. I just don't think it's a good look for someone who was in a leadership role in that locker room. I'm not saying he's guilty of anything. I think it's likely he didn't know the full extent of the abuse. But he certainly would not have been ignorant of the slurs being used at practice in front of the coaches. Just based on that alone, my opinion of him has dropped.

Of course, my opinion means nothing. So how is this dragging his name through the mud?

Also, I was unaware of any rules prohibiting this discussion. If there is, then ban me.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Untrustworthy sources regarding what? It's in the words of the victim, so you're starting point is that the victim is untrustworthy?

Also, I never named Keith as one of the abusers. I just don't think it's a good look for someone who was in a leadership role in that locker room. I'm not saying he's guilty of anything. I think it's likely he didn't know the full extent of the abuse. But he certainly would not have been ignorant of the slurs being used at practice in front of the coaches. Just based on that alone, my opinion of him has dropped.

Of course, my opinion means nothing. So how is this dragging his name through the mud?

Also, I was unaware of any rules prohibiting this discussion. If there is, then ban me.

LMAO. Cuz perceived "victims" have never lied throughout history!?

And no, I'm not saying the info provided is false, if indeed from the victim.

But the fact you are an average schmo who got all this information from sitting sipping your coffee and doughnuts from your desk, browsing Google and has 100% admitted you have already made an "INFORMED" opinion(and I quote" My opinion of him has already dropped")in the 5minutes you took to come to that conclusion

FYI, you are not a detective in this case nor a litigator just b/c you have Shaw internet. You 100% should not have an opinion on this at all until you actually know something definative

Your statement on that alone shows how messed up this whole process is. You made an opinion based on 2nd hand info and are now airing it to public opinion. Just gross

 

[space321]

LMAO. Cuz perceived "victims" have never lied throughout history!?

And no, I'm not saying the info provided is false, if indeed from the victim.

But the fact you are an average schmo who got all this information from sitting sipping your coffee and doughnuts off Google and has 100% admitted you have already made an opinion(and I quote" My opinion of him has already dropped")in the 5minutes you took to come to that conclusion

FYI, you are not a detective in this case nor a litigator just b/c you have Shaw internet. You 100% should not have an opinion on this at all until you actually know something definative

Your statement on that alone shows how messed up this whole process is. You made an opinion based on 2nd hand info and are now airing it to public opinion. Just gross

It definitely sounds like you think the victim is lying. Blocked.

 

[bobbythebrain]

It definitely sounds like you think the victim is lying. Blocked.

Millions of people thought Richard Jewell was lying. Blocking me shows how much of a slave you are to lazy fact checking

It definitely sounds like I actually like to sound out the words before spelling them

This case hasn't even gone through the legal process and here you are trying to sway people that they should have less of an opinion on Keith. You are the lowest type of denominator

 

[McVirginOil]

Millions of people thought Richard Jewell was lying. Blocking me shows how much of a slave you are to lazy fact checking

It definitely sounds like I actually like to sound out the words before spelling them

This case hasn't even gone through the legal process and here you are trying to sway people that they should have less of an opinion on Keith. You are the lowest type of denominator

Ah yes Brett Sopel has publicly come out to say what the accused saying is true, Carcillo was in the Flyers locker room and said he knew about what Aldrich was doing, and you’re still saying they’re lying? Come on.

 

[McVirginOil]

LMAO. Cuz perceived "victims" have never lied throughout history!?

And no, I'm not saying the info provided is false, if indeed from the victim.

But the fact you are an average schmo who got all this information from sitting sipping your coffee and doughnuts from your desk, browsing Google and has 100% admitted you have already made an "INFORMED" opinion(and I quote" My opinion of him has already dropped")in the 5minutes you took to come to that conclusion

FYI, you are not a detective in this case nor a litigator just b/c you have Shaw internet. You 100% should not have an opinion on this at all until you actually know something definative

Your statement on that alone shows how messed up this whole process is. You made an opinion based on 2nd hand info and are now airing it to public opinion. Just gross

Also the skills coach is willing to testifying court for the unnamed players that he went to the executive group to do something about Aldrich in the summer of 2010 and they chose to do nothing. This isn’t a story the accused just conjured up in the past month. The victim blaming on these boards is the worst I’ve seen

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I just watched one of his games against Carolina (to scout both Keith and Foegele) from April 1st. I must say that I was quite pleased with what I saw. He still skates very well and makes very quick decisions with the puck. He was on a pairing with Boqvist at ES and was on the 2nd PP unit. He got caught pinching once, but beyond that, his skating allowed him to jump up into the play and recover quickly if the play headed the other way. Part of me would like to see him and Bouchard on a pairing because he could be setting up Evan for Bouch bombs. I think that he has a very solid season for us based on what I saw.

 

[North]

I just watched one of his games against Carolina (to scout both Keith and Foegele) from April 1st. I must say that I was quite pleased with what I saw. He still skates very well and makes very quick decisions with the puck. He was on a pairing with Boqvist at ES and was on the 2nd PP unit. He got caught pinching once, but beyond that, his skating allowed him to jump up into the play and recover quickly if the play headed the other way. Part of me would like to see him and Bouchard on a pairing because he could be setting up Evan for Bouch bombs. I think that he has a very solid season for us based on what I saw.

Some Chicago fans did say that he lost a step but still skates very well. They basically said he was an excellent skater when he was younger but is a very good skater now. It’s partly why I’m not as convinced as others that this was a bad acquisition.

 

[supsens]

It definitely sounds like you think the victim is lying. Blocked.

No he is saying people with no real information or proof should not be finding others guilty and then pouring on the slander.
It will all be settled then feel free to trash on people

 

[Bank Shot]

Some Chicago fans did say that he lost a step but still skates very well. They basically said he was an excellent skater when he was younger but is a very good skater now. It’s partly why I’m not as convinced as others that this was a bad acquisition.

Maybe the nicest part of this trade is that if Keith likes it here, we could have a number 6 defenceman for another 2 years on the cheap after this contract expires.

 

[MessierII]

Some Chicago fans did say that he lost a step but still skates very well. They basically said he was an excellent skater when he was younger but is a very good skater now. It’s partly why I’m not as convinced as others that this was a bad acquisition.

Keith in his prime was one of if not the smoothest skating D man in the nhl.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Just watched part of Steve Dangle's podcast, they laid everything out pretty clear.

The bullying among teammates happened on the ice and the coaches all knew. So in what scenario would Keith be unaware?

Bullying? On Ice, in hockey? Nah, never, you don't say..

One of the dilemmas of establishing retroactive inquisition is one applies current definitions of what is considered unacceptable behavior and applies it to the past.

To be clear I'm not speaking of any alleged sexual abuse, but of the responses by the team, or players to not heed the reports. Which a dozen years ago would be commonplace and endemic to a lot of orgs. Its a no win situation for any org to have an instance like this occur. Yet like I've mentioned perps are drawn to the world of pro sports. Its commonplace for players to be assaulted. This is not a problem that is isolated to the Chicago Black Hawks in anyway.

I mean hockey has tended to be knuckle dragging in every aspect. Players be calling each other gay all day probably just years ago. People tend to behave in the zeitgeist of their times. A dozen years agos mores, behaviors, etc were much different.

Hockey belief systems have been pretty monolithic and opposed to change. At the time of this controversy in Chicago we had hired a senile old badger of a coach that swore at players, mumbled incomprehensible things about them, called them pansies, creampuffs, yada yada. With fans cheering the invective on.

 

[oobga]

It's crazy that they had Keith and Mr. Leadership Toews and that kind of stuff went on and they still won.

Maybe leadership and culture aren't all that they are cracked up to be.

Maybe being a rotten d-bag is the secret to winning that Holland is hoping Keith can teach our guys!

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Some Chicago fans did say that he lost a step but still skates very well. They basically said he was an excellent skater when he was younger but is a very good skater now. It’s partly why I’m not as convinced as others that this was a bad acquisition.

He is still explosive, quick and smooth out there. He'll be our best skating defenseman next season based on what I saw. His poise with the puck in his own end will be huge for us. In a 2nd pairing role he should kill it here. My only question is do we pair him with Bouch or Ceci?

 

[Mr Positive]

He is still explosive, quick and smooth out there. He'll be our best skating defenseman next season based on what I saw. His poise with the puck in his own end will be huge for us. In a 2nd pairing role he should kill it here. My only question is do we pair him with Bouch or Ceci?

That could depend on a lot of things. Tippett tends to like having a shutdown pairing. Ceci is likely on it. Maybe Keith isnt suited for that, but then who is the LD there? Russell/Lagesson/Samorukov/new guy? If that's how it goes, then it is Keith with Bouchard imo. The tie breaker would be that Keith might be the best partner for Bouchard to learn from

But, maybe Keith-Ceci works best as a shutdown pairing. You need that pairing to work at it's best.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

That could depend on a lot of things. Tippett tends to like having a shutdown pairing. Ceci is likely on it. Maybe Keith isnt suited for that, but then who is the LD there? Russell/Lagesson/Samorukov/new guy? If that's how it goes, then it is Keith with Bouchard imo. The tie breaker would be that Keith might be the best partner for Bouchard to learn from

If Ceci is on the "shutdown" pairing then I could see maybe Lagesson being a better fit there than Russell if Lagesson can take a step forward this offseason.

 

[Mr Positive]

If Ceci is on the "shutdown" pairing then I could see maybe Lagesson being a better fit there than Russell if Lagesson can take a step forward this offseason.

I also hear people describe Samorukov as a bit like Larsson. Either way it would be great for another young guy to step up there. The trouble is that's a tough assignment. Even tougher with Ceci instead of Larsson

 

[North]

He is still explosive, quick and smooth out there. He'll be our best skating defenseman next season based on what I saw. His poise with the puck in his own end will be huge for us. In a 2nd pairing role he should kill it here. My only question is do we pair him with Bouch or Ceci?

I think it depends if we are sticking with Russell/Lagesson for the other LD spot or if we sign someone else.

 

[Sempiternal]

Put some respect behind Duncan Keith’s name. I for one am excited to have him on the Oilers and I can guarantee you Connor McDavid is as well.

 

[Blue Line Turnover]

I hate the narrative, one even some of our fans are echoing, that Duncan Keith has been bad for multiple years consecutively.

I remember watching him against us in the 2020 playoffs and thinking he was completely dominating those important games against a very good Oilers team.