Prospect Info: DRW Development Camp - July 6-10, 2016

[BinCookin]

Mantha wasn't at this camp this year. These two were also drafted in the middle of the first round. Why were you expecting them to become first-line players?

I think a lot of poster's here are unreasonably optomistic about our prospects to the point that "trade tatar/nyquist" are based on these evaluations.

I'm simply trying to temper those expectations.

And no I never expect anyone to be a first line or even 2nd line player.
I let myself appreciate their success.

All I really meant was: Sounds like one of the better guys in camp is Cholowski. Thats good... we need a good D man. So hopefully he keeps growing into a bigger person and fills out well. That should help him have success in making the NHL one day.

 

[sean3250]

Do you not understand that Mantha broke his leg his first season? Do you know how that would affect a player? If not, than posting these stats is kinda pointless other than the fact that it shows that Mantha is close to Tatar despite having broken his leg.

You are aware that Tatar put up these numbers as a 5'10 teenager right? He was successful despite having to overcome size issues as an underdeveloped teenager. Make all the excuses for Mantha you want. Tatar's been better down in GR on a worse team. 98% of players don't become better scorers than they were in the Ahl anyway.

What about the fact Tatar's second year numbers were better despite being younger. The broken leg justification doesn't hold any weight this year.

 

[Run the Jewels]

You are aware that Tatar put up these numbers as a 5'10 teenager right? He was successful despite having to overcome size issues as an underdeveloped teenager. Make all the excuses for Mantha you want. Tatar's been better down in GR on a worse team. 98% of players don't become better scorers than they were in the Ahl anyway.

What about the fact Tatar's second year numbers were better despite being younger. The broken leg justification doesn't hold any weight this year.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I understand the prospect love here at HF Boards and that's all well and good. Some of us try to keep it as realistic as possible and if we get a pleasant surprise well then that's awesome. I am in wait and see mode with Mantha as I haven't seen anything to suggest he's going to be a 20+ goal /50+ point guy in the NHL.

 

[newfy]

Couldn't have said it better myself. I understand the prospect love here at HF Boards and that's all well and good. Some of us try to keep it as realistic as possible and if we get a pleasant surprise well then that's awesome. I am in wait and see mode with Mantha as I haven't seen anything to suggest he's going to be a 20+ goal /50+ point guy in the NHL.

I think the people who actually watch the Griffins play will mostly tell you that Mantha looks more promising than Tatar when they were the same age. Put Mantha on the Griffin teams Tatar played for and I think he scores more.

Impossible to know for sure

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

This debate is pretty silly. Tatar and Mantha are two polar opposite players. As someone who watches the Griffins as much, if not, more than the Red Wings I can tell you Mantha certainly is a better player at the same age.

Seems like something important that's missing here is scoring isn't the mark of development. Mantha came into this organization as a man amongst boys in the QMJHL. His rookie year with the Griffins was essentially a burner, broken leg in training camp left him in bad shape and he wasn't able to keep his wind to jump back in right away. Last season was quite successful, as his progress defensively is an absolute necessity for him to get on the ice in the NHL with Blashill as coach. If all we cared about was him scoring, then fine he's disappointing. I don't believe that's the case.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I think the people who actually watch the Griffins play will mostly tell you that Mantha looks more promising than Tatar when they were the same age. Put Mantha on the Griffin teams Tatar played for and I think he scores more.

Impossible to know for sure

Come on Newfy, this is hfboards, where people who don't actually watch prospects come to talk about prospects and shower us with cutting edge point-per-game analysis.

I think Mantha will always take a fair amount of grief from Wings fans regardless of how well he develops as a prospect and player. A big part of that is how he stylistically plays the game. Rightly or wrongly he will always leave people wanting more. At the end of the day, however, he has more pure skill with the puck on his stick than any other prospect in the system and it isn't really close.

 

[ricky0034]

Mantha had 27 points his last 26 games at the end of the regular season+Playoffs

i'm honestly expecting a season along the lines of Nyquist's 2013-14 out of him next year(a couple years younger too)

 

[Tasteslikekevinbacon]

Yay lets derail another thread to talk about two guys who aren't in any way shape or form involved in the development camp just so we can ***** and complain some more.

The overwhelming negativity around this place is just getting gross. I get it, you're not thrilled right now. Can we at least complain about the guys who were at the camp? Or just try to find the bright side?

anyways, I'm really glad to hear the amount of positive glow on Cholowski, and awesome to see Sadowy have a good showing too. Hopefully that keeps up! Should be interesting to see what we bring to the prospect tourney this year, anyone know when that is, and when we might see that roster?

 

[lgrwmike]

Yay lets derail another thread to talk about two guys who aren't in any way shape or form involved in the development camp just so we can ***** and complain some more.

The overwhelming negativity around this place is just getting gross. I get it, you're not thrilled right now. Can we at least complain about the guys who were at the camp? Or just try to find the bright side?

anyways, I'm really glad to hear the amount of positive glow on Cholowski, and awesome to see Sadowy have a good showing too. Hopefully that keeps up! Should be interesting to see what we bring to the prospect tourney this year, anyone know when that is, and when we might see that roster?

http://www.theleftwinglock.com/ is a good resource

 

[DanZ]

You are aware that Tatar put up these numbers as a 5'10 teenager right? He was successful despite having to overcome size issues as an underdeveloped teenager. Make all the excuses for Mantha you want. Tatar's been better down in GR on a worse team. 98% of players don't become better scorers than they were in the Ahl anyway.

What about the fact Tatar's second year numbers were better despite being younger. The broken leg justification doesn't hold any weight this year.

The Griffins were historically unlucky to start the year last season. Tatar played on a championship Griffins team and Mantha was about a PPG player after the team's horrid start. If you only look at the surface when dealing with stats you'll probably end up with some bad conclusions.

 

[sean3250]

The Griffins were historically unlucky to start the year last season. Tatar played on a championship Griffins team and Mantha was about a PPG player after the team's horrid start. If you only look at the surface when dealing with stats you'll probably end up with some bad conclusions.

Man what is it with these passive aggressive digs.

When it comes to the bolded, same goes for you. Tatar played on a team that missed the playoffs 2/3 years. I don't really know what you are talking about. Tatar put up better numbers on worse teams. Stats are fine, but only when they suit a narrative right?

I will say with 95% certainty that Mantha never scores 30 goals in the NHL. He's a solid 20-25 guy. I guess a few people disagree, which is fine.

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

Man what is it with these passive aggressive digs.

When it comes to the bolded, same goes for you. Tatar played on a team that missed the playoffs 2/3 years. I don't really know what you are talking about. Tatar put up better numbers on worse teams. Stats are fine, but only when they suit a narrative right?

I will say with 95% certainty that Mantha never scores 30 goals in the NHL. He's a solid 20-25 guy. I guess a few people disagree, which is fine.

I'll take that bet.

 

[SoupNazi]

We have a Prospect Tracker, Rebuild thread, and also Player threads for all of these players.

Tatar and Mantha aren't relevant to Development Camp. Let's get back on topic.

 

[Frk It]

If anyone wants a new avatar, this is a pretty awesome pic of Cholowski:

 

[SpookyTsuki]

If anyone wants a new avatar, this is a pretty awesome pic of Cholowski:

I want pictures like the ones of shanahan. Yzerman. And lidstrom in black turtlenecks

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

If anyone wants a new avatar, this is a pretty awesome pic of Cholowski:

Shotty

 

[Reddwit]

I think half the reason people didn't like the Cholowski pick is because he has a terrible hockey name. But for some reason, I have pretty high hopes. I like that he wasn't a CHL guy. Makes you think he flew under the radar for a reason and not some fantasy narrative.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I think half the reason people didn't like the Cholowski pick is because he has a terrible hockey name. But for some reason, I have pretty high hopes. I like that he wasn't a CHL guy. Makes you think he flew under the radar for a reason and not some fantasy narrative.

Nah. He looks like a winner. Most people didn't like it because he was (off the board for some). And we could have had fabbro or chychrun

 

[Winger98]

I think half the reason people didn't like the Cholowski pick is because he has a terrible hockey name. But for some reason, I have pretty high hopes. I like that he wasn't a CHL guy. Makes you think he flew under the radar for a reason and not some fantasy narrative.

I like him because he seems to be the first D we've drafted in awhile that either isn't tiny or has a questionable toolbox. Guys like Saarijarvi are nice, but their size is always a major question mark and hold back. Meanwhile, guys like Sproul are a massive crapshoot that they ever figure out how to use the tools they have. I just wish Cholo was a rightie.

 

[Frk It]

I like him because he seems to be the first D we've drafted in awhile that either isn't tiny or has a questionable toolbox. Guys like Saarijarvi are nice, but their size is always a major question mark and hold back. Meanwhile, guys like Sproul are a massive crapshoot that they ever figure out how to use the tools they have. I just wish Cholo was a rightie.

I wish he was going to a bigger college program with a less crowded back end. But at least they have a good coach.

 

[Henkka]

Is Cholowski only 6'0 ? He looks a lot taller on videos and pics.

When we drafted him, the first article I read about him listed him as 6'3. Since then I've seen these 6'0 numbers.

Did someone see him on reality at Camp?

 

[Reddwit]

I like him because he seems to be the first D we've drafted in awhile that either isn't tiny or has a questionable toolbox. Guys like Saarijarvi are nice, but their size is always a major question mark and hold back. Meanwhile, guys like Sproul are a massive crapshoot that they ever figure out how to use the tools they have. I just wish Cholo was a rightie.

I was being pretty tongue-in-cheek with the name comment. The bigger issue is that he was taken "in place of" Chych, which still could haunt us.

The only comparable I've seen so far has been Leddy. Hoping he's a touch better than Nick, though. We could use a gift.

Anyone else have any comps that come to mind?

 

[Henkka]

I was being pretty tongue-in-cheek with the name comment. The bigger issue is that he was taken "in place of" Chych, which still could haunt us.

The only comparable I've seen so far has been Leddy. Hoping he's a touch better than Nick, though. We could use a gift.

Anyone else have any comps that come to mind?

Nicklas Lidström. Not great at anything, but plays best.

 

[Reddwit]

Nicklas Lidström. Not great at anything, but plays best.

Haha, let's not get too excited. Interestingly, though, I saw someone on the prospects sub saying he was reminiscent of a different Swede - OEL, who has gotten St. Nick comparisons at times. That would be a god-send.

Other thing I heard was that SCSU was moving a defenseman to forward in anticipation of Cholowski coming. That's a hell of an endorsement.

 

[Frk It]

Haha, let's not get too excited. Interestingly, though, I saw someone on the prospects sub saying he was reminiscent of a different Swede - OEL, who has gotten St. Nick comparisons at times. That would be a god-send.

Other thing I heard was that SCSU was moving a defenseman to forward in anticipation of Cholowski coming. That's a hell of an endorsement.

Yeah, maybe OEL-lite. Not really one great comparison for him. Maybe Leddy is closer.

OEL has back to back 20 goal seasons, not sure what caliber shot Cholowski has or how it stacks up.