Prospect Info: DRW Development Camp - July 6-10, 2016

[Rix]

Went to game, write up will be shorter this time, just additional observations.

Bertuzzi: Didn't play, I haven't kept up so I don't know the reasoning.

Sadowy: The guy just knows how to get open. It's a skill that usually isn't seen as a priority, but it's what he builds his game off of and it makes him a very effective player even if he doesn't wow you anywhere else.

Nastasiuk: Say what you want about the rest of his game, he knows how to play defense. Easily our best forward prospect in terms of defensive play, has a very active stick and is able to read the play very well. If he makes he NHL he will likely be our top penalty killer.

Svechnikov: Meh, played better today but never dominated like you would hope for. At least showed that he was one of the better players with some great individual efforts, but very infective overall this weekend.

Ehn: Played the same style as Friday, but with much worse results. Turned over the puck a lot trying to make tough plays. Still, he shows a lot of confidence to be trying a lot of things that most guys on the ice wouldn't. I still like him a lot and see more potential in him than most guys on the ice today.

Vahatalo: I'm admittedly not the guy's biggest fan, but he played very well today. He's tough in the corner and uses his size and reach very well to play an effective professional game. Also scored an amazing goal in the shootout, wicked shot with one hand on the backhand.

Smith: Game was much less physical today and it definitely limited Smith's effectiveness on the ice. Right now, if he isn't hitting he isn't worth much on the ice. Hopefully he can improve the other areas of his game.

Hicketts: Not noticeable at all. He plays a very very safe and secure game which is nice and all, but there are tons of guys out there who do that without the size disadvantage. He needs to impress more.

Saarijarvi: Probably the biggest project in the system. Physically weak, and makes a lot of poor decisions out there leading to some risky plays and consequences. However, he is immensely skilled, creative, and an excellent skater, and is probably the only defensive prospect in our system other than Cholowski with actual impactful potential in the NHL.

Cholowski: He's still good. Just makes the right plays out there, and has the flair that makes you think he has the potential be a #2, maybe even #1 defenseman in the NHL. Definitely my prospect to watch for the upcoming year.

 

[ChadS]

Went to game, write up will be shorter this time, just additional observations.

Bertuzzi: Didn't play, I haven't kept up so I don't know the reasoning.

Sadowy: The guy just knows how to get open. It's a skill that usually isn't seen as a priority, but it's what he builds his game off of and it makes him a very effective player even if he doesn't wow you anywhere else.

Nastasiuk: Say what you want about the rest of his game, he knows how to play defense. Easily our best forward prospect in terms of defensive play, has a very active stick and is able to read the play very well. If he makes he NHL he will likely be our top penalty killer.

Svechnikov: Meh, played better today but never dominated like you would hope for. At least showed that he was one of the better players with some great individual efforts, but very infective overall this weekend.

Ehn: Played the same style as Friday, but with much worse results. Turned over the puck a lot trying to make tough plays. Still, he shows a lot of confidence to be trying a lot of things that most guys on the ice wouldn't. I still like him a lot and see more potential in him than most guys on the ice today.

Vahatalo: I'm admittedly not the guy's biggest fan, but he played very well today. He's tough in the corner and uses his size and reach very well to play an effective professional game. Also scored an amazing goal in the shootout, wicked shot with one hand on the backhand.

Smith: Game was much less physical today and it definitely limited Smith's effectiveness on the ice. Right now, if he isn't hitting he isn't worth much on the ice. Hopefully he can improve the other areas of his game.

Hicketts: Not noticeable at all. He plays a very very safe and secure game which is nice and all, but there are tons of guys out there who do that without the size disadvantage. He needs to impress more.

Saarijarvi: Probably the biggest project in the system. Physically weak, and makes a lot of poor decisions out there leading to some risky plays and consequences. However, he is immensely skilled, creative, and an excellent skater, and is probably the only defensive prospect in our system other than Cholowski with actual impactful potential in the NHL.

Cholowski: He's still good. Just makes the right plays out there, and has the flair that makes you think he has the potential be a #2, maybe even #1 defenseman in the NHL. Definitely my prospect to watch for the upcoming year.

Thanks for these write-ups! What were your thoughts on De Haas? I know he's a guy who probably won't stand out much but really think he could turn out to be a solid D.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Went to game, write up will be shorter this time, just additional observations.

Bertuzzi: Didn't play, I haven't kept up so I don't know the reasoning.

Sadowy: The guy just knows how to get open. It's a skill that usually isn't seen as a priority, but it's what he builds his game off of and it makes him a very effective player even if he doesn't wow you anywhere else.

Nastasiuk: Say what you want about the rest of his game, he knows how to play defense. Easily our best forward prospect in terms of defensive play, has a very active stick and is able to read the play very well. If he makes he NHL he will likely be our top penalty killer.

Svechnikov: Meh, played better today but never dominated like you would hope for. At least showed that he was one of the better players with some great individual efforts, but very infective overall this weekend.

Ehn: Played the same style as Friday, but with much worse results. Turned over the puck a lot trying to make tough plays. Still, he shows a lot of confidence to be trying a lot of things that most guys on the ice wouldn't. I still like him a lot and see more potential in him than most guys on the ice today.

Vahatalo: I'm admittedly not the guy's biggest fan, but he played very well today. He's tough in the corner and uses his size and reach very well to play an effective professional game. Also scored an amazing goal in the shootout, wicked shot with one hand on the backhand.

Smith: Game was much less physical today and it definitely limited Smith's effectiveness on the ice. Right now, if he isn't hitting he isn't worth much on the ice. Hopefully he can improve the other areas of his game.

Hicketts: Not noticeable at all. He plays a very very safe and secure game which is nice and all, but there are tons of guys out there who do that without the size disadvantage. He needs to impress more.

Saarijarvi: Probably the biggest project in the system. Physically weak, and makes a lot of poor decisions out there leading to some risky plays and consequences. However, he is immensely skilled, creative, and an excellent skater, and is probably the only defensive prospect in our system other than Cholowski with actual impactful potential in the NHL.

Cholowski: He's still good. Just makes the right plays out there, and has the flair that makes you think he has the potential be a #2, maybe even #1 defenseman in the NHL. Definitely my prospect to watch for the upcoming year.

Thanks for the write up! I think Saarijarvi is probably my second highest rate prospect with regards to overall potential. I have soured on Mantha and Svechnikov and Athanasiou is my top guy at this point. It's too early to say much on Cholowski but it's good to see your impression matches what I saw when I watched the shift by shift video from the playoffs this past year. It's good to see we have some d-men with some NHL potential although everyone felt the same way about Kindl, Smith, Sproul and Ouellet shortly after they were drafted.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Found these 2 impressions from Malik encouraging:





http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comment...camp-16?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Thought this was cool, too



http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/07/red_wings_draft_pick_givani_sm.html

Yeah, I really liked Smith as a second round pick. Good to see he's working on his net front game. I think a lot of people are going to come around on him. He's the kind of kid who becomes a fan favorite.

 

[Rix]

Thanks for these write-ups! What were your thoughts on De Haas? I know he's a guy who probably won't stand out much but really think he could turn out to be a solid D.

He's very big, much more physically developed than most players there which is to be expected considering his age and development. He's a solid defenseman who looked completely at ease on the ice, didn't stand out too much if at all offensively but was quite a solid player at D. Honestly I'm not sure I see NHL potential in him, but he could easily be a #5-6 defender that we can trust to not make dumb plays like most of our current lesser D-men.

 

[Frk It]

McNulty had a good season last year, why was he not invited to camp?

I know he's not our property, but why not invite him?

 

[Claypool]

I have soured on Mantha

After 10 NHL games in which he played pretty well? Even after leading the Griffins in scoring during the playoffs? Ok then.

 

[Run the Jewels]

After 10 NHL games in which he played pretty well? Even after leading the Griffins in scoring during the playoffs? Ok then.

Larkin makes the NHL in his first pro season. That's the standard for a stud prospect. Mantha will burn through his full waiver free career in Grand Rapids. The guys who spend their entire waiver free time in Grand Rapids almost never develop into top line scorers. Hell, Tomas Tatar is probably the poster boy for guys who were held back but turned into good NHL players and he's definitely a good player, but is best slotted in as a middle six forward. Same thing will likely happen with Mantha - if he fully develops.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Larkin makes the NHL in his first pro season. That's the standard for a stud prospect. Mantha will burn through his full waiver free career in Grand Rapids. The guys who spend their entire waiver free time in Grand Rapids almost never develop into top line scorers. Hell, Tomas Tatar is probably the poster boy for guys who were held back but turned into good NHL players and he's definitely a good player, but is best slotted in as a middle six forward. Same thing will likely happen with Mantha - if he fully develops.

Mantha got slowed down by a broken leg, otherwise he could have been up sooner. He's probably close to full-time by the end of this season though.

 

[Claypool]

Larkin makes the NHL in his first pro season. That's the standard for a stud prospect. Mantha will burn through his full waiver free career in Grand Rapids. The guys who spend their entire waiver free time in Grand Rapids almost never develop into top line scorers. Hell, Tomas Tatar is probably the poster boy for guys who were held back but turned into good NHL players and he's definitely a good player, but is best slotted in as a middle six forward. Same thing will likely happen with Mantha - if he fully develops.

If Larkin breaks his leg during camp he probably spends a year or more in Grand Rapids, too. That's just how it goes sometimes. Mantha can be a much more effective scorer in the NHL than Tatar because of his size and reach alone.

 

[Mijatovic]

After 10 NHL games in which he played pretty well? Even after leading the Griffins in scoring during the playoffs? Ok then.

1st part is certainly debatable. The second part is cherry picking. Leading the team when your best player is up in the NHL (AA) doesnt mean as much as you want it to.

 

[sean3250]

If Larkin breaks his leg during camp he probably spends a year or more in Grand Rapids, too. That's just how it goes sometimes. Mantha can be a much more effective scorer in the NHL than Tatar because of his size and reach alone.

Yup, Mantha's size and reach have been so effective in the AHL that Tatar has outscored him handily.

Mantha 122 GP- 78 points .64ppg .30GPG
Tatar 265GP- 196 points .74ppg .33GPG

Tatar's been better in the playoffs too, even winning the MVP of the Calder Cup.

So even with his smaller statue and reach Tatar has managed to outscore him in every way. I don't know how you can expect that to change at the next level where the guys are stronger and faster than the AHL, on average.

Like usual your talking out of your you know what.

1st part is certainly debatable. The second part is cherry picking. Leading the team when your best player is up in the NHL (AA) doesnt mean as much as you want it to.

There's no reasoning with this guy, he's already set in his preconceived biases. Cherry picks with the best of them too.

 

[Claypool]

Yup, Mantha's size and reach have been so effective in the AHL that Tatar has outscored him handily.

Mantha 122 GP- 78 points .64ppg .30GPG
Tatar 265GP- 196 points .74ppg .33GPG

Tatar's been better in the playoffs too, even winning the MVP of the Calder Cup.

So even with his smaller statue and reach Tatar has managed to outscore him in every way. I don't know how you can expect that to change at the next level where the guys are stronger and faster than the AHL, on average.

Like usual your talking out of your you know what.



There's no reasoning with this guy, he's already set in his preconceived biases. Cherry picks with the best of them too.

Tatar was a year older when he won playoffs MVP and played two additional more seasons of pro hockey in the AHL than Mantha by that time. That team that won the Calder Cup was also way better than the current Griffins team, but I shouldn't have to tell you that.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Tatar was a year older when he won playoffs MVP and played two additional more seasons of pro hockey in the AHL than Mantha by that time. That team that won the Calder Cup was also way better than the current Griffins team, but I shouldn't have to tell you that.

Don't tell them that. It could mess up time itself

 

[Mijatovic]

I want Mantha to succeed as much as anyone. I just dont see it happening though. Some players have the drive and some don't. Heart/Drive/Willpower whatever you want to call it is such a big part of making the best players become the best and its hard to see that in Mantha. I cant wait to see if hes taken another step coming into this preseason.

 

[BinCookin]

I want Mantha to succeed as much as anyone. I just dont see it happening though. Some players have the drive and some don't. Heart/Drive/Willpower whatever you want to call it is such a big part of making the best players become the best and its hard to see that in Mantha. I cant wait to see if hes taken another step coming into this preseason.

I think the important part here is:

Last year... everyone watching the camp was just amazed with how Larkin was playing. It was clear he was NHL ready, and was dominating vs the other prospects.

At this point Svechnikov and especially Mantha should be pretty dominant here. I have not seen any gushing done by Malik or any posters here yet.

They are our 2 greatest talents... but they should be more impressive. Its leading towards 2nd/3rd liners, as opposed to 1st liners. I hope for their success, but as per usual, I like hearing how they are actually playing, as opposed to saying "1st round pick"..."potential" etc etc.

Also Saying Mantha has SIZE and REACH is redundant. Thats 1 point.

 

[Wood Stick]

I think the important part here is:

Last year... everyone watching the camp was just amazed with how Larkin was playing. It was clear he was NHL ready, and was dominating vs the other prospects.

At this point Svechnikov and especially Mantha should be pretty dominant here. I have not seen any gushing done by Malik or any posters here yet.

They are our 2 greatest talents... but they should be more impressive. Its leading towards 2nd/3rd liners, as opposed to 1st liners. I hope for their success, but as per usual, I like hearing how they are actually playing, as opposed to saying "1st round pick"..."potential" etc etc.

Also Saying Mantha has SIZE and REACH is redundant. Thats 1 point.

I don't get how the hype for Anthony Mantha has fallen off so much. The kid lit up the Q, came into the prospect tournament and shattered his leg. He comes back late into the season, just turning 20 on a stacked team and puts up over .50 PPG.

This year the entire Grand Rapids team struggled for the first 12 games or so. He was the best player for the team this year. 45 points in 60 games, over a PPG in the playoffs. Got called up for Detroit and created rare 5 on 5 chances for the team. Goes on the PP and the team gets results. Mike Green's 15/16 goals were posted recently. Half of them all season were with Mantha parked in front. Blash said he wasn't the reason for a success and removes him from the PP, and sends him down to Grand Rapids. PP struggles like ****ing crazy after that.

5 on 5 he was strong on the puck, really fast for his size and digging in corners. I think he had two breakaways, couple posts and did well with 3 points in 10 games. Blash used him poorly, and I think he did so in GR too. He doesn't seem to be a fan. I disagree with Blash. Datsyuk finally looked to be creating something with Tatar and Mantha. Broke that up after 2 games for Helmer in Tatar's spot, struggles. That didn't work so Brad Richards got Mantha's spot. Results... completely ****ing awful.

Blash needs a bounceback season, not Mantha. I see Anthony Mantha as a first liner with 40 goal peak potential, and a consistent high 20 goal scorer. With his shot, underrated passing, and skating, dare I say a poor man's Columbus Blue Jackets Rick Nash without the great defensive player? Nash was for the most part a 60-70 point guy there. Had little talent though.

 

[Mijatovic]

Blashill had a poor season. I was hoping he would rejuvenate the team after Babcock left and a few people told us he would just be Babcock 2.0 and turns out.... he was. He was stubborn and didnt allow some of the young guys to take up when veterans fell off the cliff.

Still, you can only really say that Mantha dominated CHL. 0.75PPG AHL isnt exactly world beater class. Its solid though. Training camp will be a good indication for him. Realistically, you can almost guarentee hes back in the AHL because of our forward numbers.

 

[sean3250]

Tatar was a year older when he won playoffs MVP and played two additional more seasons of pro hockey in the AHL than Mantha by that time. That team that won the Calder Cup was also way better than the current Griffins team, but I shouldn't have to tell you that.

If you want to go by age, Tatar had a better 20-21 year old season than Mantha too.

57 points in 70 games (.82PPG) vs. 45 points in 60 games (.75PPG)

In fact, Tatar had a better first two pro seasons than Mantha did. And he started in the AHL as a teenager playing against fully developed men.

Tatar- 128 games- 89 points (.70PPG)
Mantha- 122 games- 78 points (.64PPG)

And this occurred on a team that did not make that playoffs and that was much worse than anything Mantha has played for, but I shouldn't have to tell you that.

 

[Ingvar]

In case anyone missed, there was a series of articles on WiiM from a person attending development camp from day 3:
July 8 part 1
July 8 part 2
July 9
July 10

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I don't get how the hype for Anthony Mantha has fallen off so much. The kid lit up the Q, came into the prospect tournament and shattered his leg. He comes back late into the season, just turning 20 on a stacked team and puts up over .50 PPG.

This year the entire Grand Rapids team struggled for the first 12 games or so. He was the best player for the team this year. 45 points in 60 games, over a PPG in the playoffs. Got called up for Detroit and created rare 5 on 5 chances for the team. Goes on the PP and the team gets results. Mike Green's 15/16 goals were posted recently. Half of them all season were with Mantha parked in front. Blash said he wasn't the reason for a success and removes him from the PP, and sends him down to Grand Rapids. PP struggles like ****ing crazy after that.

5 on 5 he was strong on the puck, really fast for his size and digging in corners. I think he had two breakaways, couple posts and did well with 3 points in 10 games. Blash used him poorly, and I think he did so in GR too. He doesn't seem to be a fan. I disagree with Blash. Datsyuk finally looked to be creating something with Tatar and Mantha. Broke that up after 2 games for Helmer in Tatar's spot, struggles. That didn't work so Brad Richards got Mantha's spot. Results... completely ****ing awful.

Blash needs a bounceback season, not Mantha. I see Anthony Mantha as a first liner with 40 goal peak potential, and a consistent high 20 goal scorer. With his shot, underrated passing, and skating, dare I say a poor man's Columbus Blue Jackets Rick Nash without the great defensive player? Nash was for the most part a 60-70 point guy there. Had little talent though.

This is an excellent post. Agree totally.

 

[Pavels Dog]

At this point Svechnikov and especially Mantha should be pretty dominant here. I have not seen any gushing done by Malik or any posters here yet.

Mantha isn't at this camp. Svechnikov seems to have had a disappointing camp but it doesn't have to mean much.

If you want to go by age, Tatar had a better 20-21 year old season than Mantha too.

57 points in 70 games (.82PPG) vs. 45 points in 60 games (.75PPG)

In fact, Tatar had a better first two pro seasons than Mantha did. And he started in the AHL as a teenager playing against fully developed men.

Tatar- 128 games- 89 points (.70PPG)
Mantha- 122 games- 78 points (.64PPG)

And this occurred on a team that did not make that playoffs and that was much worse than anything Mantha has played for, but I shouldn't have to tell you that.

Tatar is a great player. Much better than he really gets credit for here. He's someone that should score 30+ goals a few times in his career. So for Mantha to not destroy his numbers isn't really an issue in terms of Mantha's potential to also become a good player.
And the fact that many people think he's got a higher ceiling is because he's got more tools than Tatar does. He has better hands, more reach, he has a slapshot, he's faster and bigger, he's a better playmaker and so on. He's a guy that could potentially be a big impact player instead of "just" a scoring winger. He should produce better numbers than he actually does, but I could see his numbers increasing year by year in a different way than Tatar's have. Last season was an indication; super slow start but then around PPG for most of the season and playoffs. If he's in GR next year, he could be PPG for sure.

Tatar and Mantha simply have very different development paths.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I think the important part here is:

Last year... everyone watching the camp was just amazed with how Larkin was playing. It was clear he was NHL ready, and was dominating vs the other prospects.

At this point Svechnikov and especially Mantha should be pretty dominant here. I have not seen any gushing done by Malik or any posters here yet.

They are our 2 greatest talents... but they should be more impressive. Its leading towards 2nd/3rd liners, as opposed to 1st liners. I hope for their success, but as per usual, I like hearing how they are actually playing, as opposed to saying "1st round pick"..."potential" etc etc.

Also Saying Mantha has SIZE and REACH is redundant. Thats 1 point.

Mantha wasn't at this camp this year. These two were also drafted in the middle of the first round. Why were you expecting them to become first-line players?

 

[DanZ]

If you want to go by age, Tatar had a better 20-21 year old season than Mantha too.

57 points in 70 games (.82PPG) vs. 45 points in 60 games (.75PPG)

In fact, Tatar had a better first two pro seasons than Mantha did. And he started in the AHL as a teenager playing against fully developed men.

Tatar- 128 games- 89 points (.70PPG)
Mantha- 122 games- 78 points (.64PPG)

And this occurred on a team that did not make that playoffs and that was much worse than anything Mantha has played for, but I shouldn't have to tell you that.

Do you not understand that Mantha broke his leg his first season? Do you know how that would affect a player? If not, than posting these stats is kinda pointless other than the fact that it shows that Mantha is close to Tatar despite having broken his leg.

 

[LowFive]

I want Mantha to succeed as much as anyone. I just dont see it happening though. Some players have the drive and some don't. Heart/Drive/Willpower whatever you want to call it is such a big part of making the best players become the best and its hard to see that in Mantha. I cant wait to see if hes taken another step coming into this preseason.

It always bugs me that people seem to equate 'heart' or 'drive' to how much of an energy player someone is on the ice. There are countless play styles out there and just because they aren't the kind of player who goes full speed all shift they are labeled lacking in drive or motivation. Tatar is an energy guy and it is easy to see his drive on the ice but with Mantha's playing style the commitment may be more apparent off the ice (working on his shot, getting stronger etc.) I'm sure with Mantha's family history in the NHL he is driven with dreams of the NHL and Stanley Cups.

I'm not trying to call you out or anything, but can you personally vouch for Mantha's lack of drive? You said it's hard to see but it might be there and probably is based on how far he has made it. I simply can't classify Tatar as being more driven just because he has more hustle. He might be, but none of us really knows for sure.