Prospect Info: DRW Development Camp - July 6-10, 2016

Obe2kenobe

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Mar 23, 2014
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I actually have a big problem with Cholo going to St. Cloud.

When the best NHL player your school has produced in its 60(+) years of existence is Frank Brimsek back in 1938 we have a problem.

A first round pick should not be playing at some second rate hockey school (And yes St. Cloud is second rate, there few recent Tournament appearances mean jack ****) Yeah sure Motzko is an all right coach but Cholo should be playing somewhere with a bit more pedigree. Having to sit behind D that aren't even going to make the ECHL is also really disappointing.

St. Cloud made the NCAA tournament the last 5 years. That is not 2nd rate.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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If SCSU didn't think he had any shot at playing this season they would have brought him in 17-18 as originally intended. I agree that other underdeveloped prospects have struggled with what you are describing. Those guys, however, weren't first round picks.

It's a rather new development that he is someone they should be concerned with reserving playing time for, so the situation has changed quite a bit since he committed in '14.

I also imagine the coach isn't going to play him just because he was a Wings 1st round draft pick. We will see, hopefully he carves himself out a role. If he plays as good in pre-season as he has in the Wings camp, it should not be too much of a problem.
 

sean3250

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Feb 7, 2015
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Miami, UNO and UMD are all quality programs that have a handful of NHL picks on their rosters each year. This notion that his development will be stunted because he selected SCSU is laughable. Oh, and if SCSU sucks so badly, why are we so concerned about him being buried on the depth chart?

At this point his only realistic options would be to go play in the BCHL or USHL for another year before heading to a different school or playing in Prince ****ing George. Somehow we are concerned about his college selection but not the black hole of an organization that holds his CHL rights.

Never said his development was going to be stunted, just made a statement saying I believe he should be playing for a better program. No need to get so over the top. I want our best D prospect playing for a Top program learning from the best coaches. You don't think playing under Red Berenson helped Larkin? He committed to St. Cloud before he really took off as a prospect. It's not a bad thing to suggest he should be playing somewhere where an elite 1st round D should be playing.

Charlie McAvoy is playing for BU
Dante Fabbro is playing for BU
Chad Krys is playing for BU
Ryan Lindgren is playing for Minnesota
Hanifin went to BC
Suter went to Wisconsin
Shattenkirk went to BU
McDonagh went to Wisconsin

More than not most good NHL defenseman that come from the NCAA, go to the elite schools


Miami was 9-13-2 in the NCHC last year. Their most notable alumni was Dan Boyle back in the 90's. Miami currently has Roslovic but that's about it in legitimate NHL talent.


UNO was 8-15-1 in the NCHC last year. They have not been good in the NCHC since 2010. Besides Jake Guentzel they isn't anyone else with a great shot to make the NHL on that team, which unfortunately includes 4th round draft pick David Pope. Their best alumni Andrej Sustr.

And you're right UMD is a solid school. They haven't been the best lately but they're solid. Besides Justin Faulk and Matt Niskanen there haven't been any big time players from them recently. Can't forget past greats like Brett Hull and Mark Pavelich though.

And not saying he should go to Prince George or anything but they aren't terrible or anything. They have some solid NHL talent on the roster like Jesse Gabrielle and Jansen Harkins. 5 total drafted guys on the roster. The WHL is a good league for defenseman and produces plenty of very good ones. Some good D have come out of PG like Big Buff, Hamhuis, and Chara.
 

Bench

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Aug 14, 2011
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It is the summer and people are on the war path for things to ***** about because the big club is in decline. I think that is a recipe for disaster around these parts. I could not care less about SCSU as a school or hockey program but it sure as hell isn't going to hold Cholo back one bit in his development.

That's fine. You're might be right. Does that mean you can't address that the vast majority of star players coming out of college are doing so through more traditionally prestigious programs? That's the point. And like I keep saying, I think it's reasonable.

If you "could not care less" then you're already conceding that's not a factor for you, but for some it is given he's the majority of our defender hopes and dreams.

As for the warpath, well, not sure fighting fire with fire is going to yield the results you want. Normally that's just more fire, but I'm no fireologist.
 

L13

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Oct 1, 2015
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Calling SCSU a "second-rate" school in 2016 is pretty weird. It is one of the 5-6 best hockey programs in the NCAA right now. Using a school's past tournament performances or decade-long history of player development to assess its current fortunes instead of the existing balance of power in D1 makes no sense to me.

Programs rise and fall. The Gophers, for example, have fallen. Schools like SCSU and Providence have risen. Things change, even in the NCAA.

In any case, the two defencemen who came into the NHL from the NCAA last season and made a splash went to Union College and the University of Alaska. When those "second-rate" schools find first-rate talent, they do just fine developing it.
 

kook10

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Jun 27, 2011
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Baby Bert with a sweet goal

:handclap:


Would it stand in a real game or would it be slashing?
 

Bench

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Would it stand in a real game or would it be slashing?

I can't think of too many cases where an upward slash was called, particularly on offense. Usually it's that lumberjack downward motion that flags the ref.
 

Bench

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Calling SCSU a "second-rate" school in 2016 is pretty weird. It is one of the 5-6 best hockey programs in the NCAA right now. Using a school's past tournament performances or decade-long history of player development to assess its current fortunes instead of the existing balance of power in D1 makes no sense to me.

Programs rise and fall. The Gophers, for example, have fallen. Schools like SCSU and Providence have risen. Things change, even in the NCAA.

In any case, the two defencemen who came into the NHL from the NCAA last season and made a splash went to Union College and the University of Alaska. When those "second-rate" schools find first-rate talent, they do just fine developing it.

Yeah, I think you're right. NCAA hockey is much stronger overall than it's ever been. Talent is higher than it has been at most areas, including the coaching.

Is part of this the growth of USA hockey in general?
 

ArGarBarGar

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Sep 8, 2008
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Unlikely that gets called. Hossa didn't get called in 2008 when he did the same to Lilja in game 6 of the 2008 finals, and that was as big of a game as you can imagine.

Pretty sweet goal, though. Who is it that got punked?
 

Mr Pipe

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Mar 1, 2008
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Unlikely that gets called. Hossa didn't get called in 2008 when he did the same to Lilja in game 6 of the 2008 finals, and that was as big of a game as you can imagine.

Pretty sweet goal, though. Who is it that got punked?

Sadowy
 

kook10

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Jun 27, 2011
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Unlikely that gets called. Hossa didn't get called in 2008 when he did the same to Lilja in game 6 of the 2008 finals, and that was as big of a game as you can imagine.

Pretty sweet goal, though. Who is it that got punked?

That was a little different (and wasn't it Malone?) in that it was away from the puck and didn't directly result in a scoring opportunity. Under two minutes left in a clinching game they weren't going to call anything anyway. I doubt they would call this though either, but I would like to see someone try it on a 1 on 1. Who knows what they call these days :dunno:?
 

Ezekial

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At least Sadowy had a hat trick to go along with it so he didn't look like a total mook.
 

Bench

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I doubt they would call this though either, but I would like to see someone try it on a 1 on 1. Who knows what they call these days :dunno:?

It's possible it gets called if:
1) The stick goes flying like seen here
2) The stick breaks

This play happens time to time where the skater lifts the stick of the defender to gain position, but it doesn't get called unless there's some evidence of malpractice. A stick lift that doesn't disable the defender's stick won't ever get called.

But how many guys can lift a defenders stick in full stride and maintain control of the puck afterwards? Oh right, and assume the defender doesn't just use his body to neutralize the fancy stick moves.

All of that said, 99% chance Tatar tries this move this season.
 

opivy

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Sep 14, 2011
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It's possible it gets called if:
1) The stick goes flying like seen here
2) The stick breaks

This play happens time to time where the skater lifts the stick of the defender to gain position, but it doesn't get called unless there's some evidence of malpractice. A stick lift that doesn't disable the defender's stick won't ever get called.

But how many guys can lift a defenders stick in full stride and maintain control of the puck afterwards? Oh right, and assume the defender doesn't just use his body to neutralize the fancy stick moves.

All of that said, 99% chance Tatar tries this move this season.

Datsyuk did this all the time.
 

DonskoiDonscored

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Oct 12, 2013
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Calling SCSU a "second-rate" school in 2016 is pretty weird. It is one of the 5-6 best hockey programs in the NCAA right now.

Especially when he brings up Wisconsin as an elite hockey school. In this day and age that is not true.

They won two games last year.
 

Dingo44

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I actually have a big problem with Cholo going to St. Cloud.

When the best NHL player your school has produced in its 60(+) years of existence is Frank Brimsek back in 1938 we have a problem.

A first round pick should not be playing at some second rate hockey school (And yes St. Cloud is second rate, there few recent Tournament appearances mean jack ****) Yeah sure Motzko is an all right coach but Cholo should be playing somewhere with a bit more pedigree. Having to sit behind D that aren't even going to make the ECHL is also really disappointing.

Will Borgen was one of the best defensemen for the United States at the World Juniors.
 

RabidBadger

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I actually have a big problem with Cholo going to St. Cloud.
When the best NHL player your school has produced in its 60(+) years of existence is Frank Brimsek back in 1938 we have a problem.

A first round pick should not be playing at some second rate hockey school (And yes St. Cloud is second rate, there few recent Tournament appearances mean jack ****) Yeah sure Motzko is an all right coach but Cholo should be playing somewhere with a bit more pedigree. Having to sit behind D that aren't even going to make the ECHL is also really disappointing.

I guess you'll have to learn to get over it. What's done is done. If you can point to guys that Motzko has ruined then I'll share your trepidation. Otherwise I see no need to worry.

I get the feeling most posters commenting in this thread about college hockey really don't follow it closely.
 

Bench

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I get the feeling most posters commenting in this thread about college hockey really don't follow it closely.

Then take the high road and present your case rather than simply point out ignorance. I think that's mostly been done here, but I'm not a fan of these types of comments.

This drive by appealing to authority isn't befitting of constructive discussion. Imagine if we started calling out every poster that hasn't played hockey. Or hasn't been to a hundred NHL games live. Or doesn't subscribe to Center Ice. Or...
 

Ezekial

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When Dennis Cholowski leads St. Cloud State to the National Championship, people will change their tune :thumbu:
 

SpookyTsuki

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Dec 3, 2014
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Then take the high road and present your case rather than simply point out ignorance. I think that's mostly been done here, but I'm not a fan of these types of comments.

This drive by appealing to authority isn't befitting of constructive discussion. Imagine if we started calling out every poster that hasn't played hockey. Or hasn't been to a hundred NHL games live. Or doesn't subscribe to Center Ice. Or...

Well good thing I only am missing one of those. And that's because I own center ice so what's the point ;)
 

RabidBadger

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Then take the high road and present your case rather than simply point out ignorance. I think that's mostly been done here, but I'm not a fan of these types of comments.

This drive by appealing to authority isn't befitting of constructive discussion. Imagine if we started calling out every poster that hasn't played hockey. Or hasn't been to a hundred NHL games live. Or doesn't subscribe to Center Ice. Or...

Fine, I'll bite on your drive by admonishment of how you think posts should be presented...because I'm a big fan of that. The slippery-slope soliloquy at the end was a bit much, I say. Rather unwarranted as I am not given to such comments in my posting history.
*Ahem*

I did not elaborate because frankly, there was too much subject material to cover. I'll touch on the finer points:
-The notion NCHC is not compteitive outside NoDak and DU... not so much, Miami has been a perrenial playoff team until last year, Omaha (a team said to be not competitive in a seperate thread) made the Frozen Four two years ago, Duluth won a title 5 years ago, the conference generally sends a representative to the FF yearly and will have the most, or 2nd most teams represented in the playoffs. I am counting team's time in the former WCHA as well (now there was a conference!)

-Wisconsin is not an elite program? Two horrid years, for sure. They were a #1 tournament seed 3 years ago. They had 2 1st round picks this year. They are top 5 of NCAA programs for players in the NHL. Smells elite to me.

-Fears of Cholowski being in a dead end program (most pertinent point in this thread)...since Motzko took over I'd say every draftee has performed to, or above, expectations. There has NEVER been a first rounder recruited by SCSU, ergo, no precedent to judge the program. I'm not aware of any NHL teams bending recruits arms to bail St. Cloud and play CHL.

That's all the high road I have in me.
 
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