Draisaitl vs. Matthews

Who will score more goals this season?


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Sidney the Kidney

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Jun 29, 2009
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They would have had a good second line last year if Drai was capable of decent play without McDavid - but he's not.

I mean, did you see their wingers? I think *both* McDavid and Draisaitl would have seen a huge drop in production if the Oilers had split them up. And I'm not sure the two lines would have been any more productive than simply keeping them together. It's not like they've got Toronto's wingers, but still play McDavid and Draisaitl together.
 

Hustlr

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Oct 1, 2019
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In terms of goal scoring they should both be in the top 5.

I’ll take Matthews if I had to pick one.
 

biotk

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Jan 3, 2017
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I mean, did you see their wingers? I think *both* McDavid and Draisaitl would have seen a huge drop in production if the Oilers had split them up. And I'm not sure the two lines would have been any more productive than simply keeping them together. It's not like they've got Toronto's wingers, but still play McDavid and Draisaitl together.

Sure, but that's the point. If you have two 100 point players when playing together but they are 70 point players when playing apart then what you have is two 70 point players who play well together (that is just a hypothetical - I am not saying that McDavid is a 70 point player - Drai's production was much more dependant on McDavid than McDavid's was on Drai). And yes, the Oilers wingers did not look great, but they would have looked better playing with centers like McDavid and Drai. If you are supposedly really good you should be elevating mediocre linemates, instead of being elevated by even better linemates.
 

Sidney the Kidney

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Jun 29, 2009
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Sure, but that's the point. If you have two 100 point players when playing together but they are 70 point players when playing apart then what you have is two 70 point players who play well together (that is just a hypothetical - I am not saying that McDavid is a 70 point player - Drai's production was much more dependant on McDavid than McDavid's was on Drai). And yes, the Oilers wingers did not look great, but they would have looked better playing with centers like McDavid and Drai. If you are supposedly really good you should be elevating mediocre linemates, instead of being elevated by even better linemates.

And which centers carry as weak linemates as what would be available to Draisaitl last season if he centered his own line? Keep in mind they'd put RNH with McDavid in that situation, so who is left for Draisaitl? And which centers in the league play with that lack of quality and score 70+ points?
 

Stamkos4life

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Oct 25, 2018
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To close to call. Auston is the better goal scorer but injures hold him back. Will he play 82 this year? Drai is in a favourable spot with McDavid on his line. I doubt be keeps the same shooting % he had last year
 

lawrence

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May 19, 2012
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Draisaitl even if Matthews manages to play a full season it's him, since he has mcdavid to play with.
 

cpsman

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Aug 18, 2010
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Not sure what the answer is here. Could go either way. Matthews is probably the better shooter, but Drai may get more goals from other factors like transition play (turnovers leading to odd man rushes) and McDavid's nice passes on the PP or in OT.

If I needed to draft a pure goal scorer, Matthews would fit the bill. The guy will be a top goal scorer in the league for years to come.

If I needed to draft an all round talent - Draisaitl. In my mind he's the better hockey player in general. He can do it all. Score, make beauty passes, skate (something he wasn't great at earlier in his career but worked hard to improve), and his defensive play has actually been legit really good this year.
 

Sidney the Kidney

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Jun 29, 2009
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Matthews last season.



Matthews last season.

I'm going to remember this quote the next time someone says Toronto's depth sucks and Leaf fans get upset because guys like Kapanen and Johnsson aren't getting enough respect for how good they are. Because apparently those guys are on par with the Rieders, Lucics, and Chiassons of the world.
 

Llamamoto

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Sep 5, 2018
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Matthews last season.



Matthews last season.

He played with Nylander, Kapanen, Johnsson, etc, plus a pp with Marner, Tavares, and Rielly. Those aren't nearly as bad as Lucic and Rieder. And Drai still managed to put up 105 points.
 

CycloneSweep

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Sep 27, 2017
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It'll be close I think.

The big questions are if Matthews stays healthy and if last year was a break out goal scoring year for Drai or an outlier.
 

Dion TheFluff

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Jun 22, 2015
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Draisaitl is getting 6 minutes more per game because he is elite at defense and therefore is put out there in key defensive situations / the penalty kill
He plays 2 minutes per game on the PK, compared to Matthew's 1 second per game
or maybe it's because asside from McDavid, Draisaitl, Neal and RNH the Oilers forward group would be comparable to an average AHL team.
 

TheNumber4

Registered User
Nov 11, 2011
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Drai v Matthews in goal scoring is admittedly debatable but you can't argue with proven and quantifiable RESULTS. Drai was a goal off from winning the Rocket last year, Matthews wasn't close.

In terms of who's the overall better player, its not debatable at all which is why a poll doesn't exist for that topic. Drai is way ahead in playmaking, hockey IQ, strength, versatility, lack of bad tattoos, defensive ability, puck cycling, vision, PKing, pass anticipation and interception, maturity, hair style and flow, puck protection, face-off ability, nose shape, leadership, consistency, lack of off-ice d-baggery, 2 way game, respectability, durability, ability to take direction from coaches, stride power, hit avoidance, jaw-line squareness, board battling, humbleness, responsibility, hairline, passing, overtime heroics and general clutchness, playoff performance, truculence, the ability to absorb hits, stick checking, being a team player, selflessness, cap hit value, and not wearing embarrassing fashion statements. It's really not close when you look at all the important factors.
 
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biotk

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Jan 3, 2017
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so, are Kapanen and Johnsson not top six guys?

During the summer of 2018 every non-Leafs fan said they were no more than AHL players on trade forums. They are better than that. But Kapanen is no better than a speedy, low IQ 3rd line winger, and Johnsson has progressed to be a low level 2nd pairing winger.

Kapanen (Matthews' most common linemate last year) does not belong in the top-6. It took all of two games playing with Marner and Tavares this year for Leafs fans everywhere to realize that Kapanen is not close to a top-6 guy. Playing with Matthews makes pretty much everyone look much better so people didn't notice it, but I had been saying it from the first couple games they played together. At 5v5 when Kapanen is with Matthews his goal production is about 240% of what it is without Matthews and his point production is about 230% of what it is without Matthews. Without Matthews his production is on par with what Chiasson's 5v5 production was last year when not playing with McDavid. A little better than Lucic and Rieder (again when not playing with McDavid).

Marleau was Matthews' second most common linemate last year. He is also certainly not a top-6 guy. Yes, he has 3 points in his first 2 games back in San Jose. He also had 4 points in his first 3 games last year playing with Matthews and Ennis (who is also not a top-6 guy) but he can't handle top-6 play.

Johnsson was a 23 year old rookie who is probably a top-6 guy, but many, if not most, posters on the leafs' board would prefer him to be on the third line (with Kapanen) when Hyman returns to play with Tavares. Still that is 40% of Matthews' time he played with a top-6 player.
 

McRpro

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Aug 18, 2006
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or maybe it's because asside from McDavid, Draisaitl, Neal and RNH the Oilers forward group would be comparable to an average AHL team.
Oh cmon. Drop Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander and the Leafs forward group looks AHL caliber as well. Do that with most teams top 4 forwards and see how good they look. :facepalm:
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
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I'm going to remember this quote the next time someone says Toronto's depth sucks and Leaf fans get upset because guys like Kapanen and Johnsson aren't getting enough respect for how good they are. Because apparently those guys are on par with the Rieders, Lucics, and Chiassons of the world.

People over-value their prospects no matter which team they cheer for. You can check my history, I never claimed that Kapanen was more than he is (possibly a third line forward who can PK), and I never claimed that Johnsson was more than he is (a lower end top-6 winger). Players like Kapanen and Johnsson have decent production because the team has attempted to develop them by having them play regularly with Matthews and Tavares instead of the team just stacking a single line with all the teams' talent allowing the rest of the players to wallow on crappy lines and then complaining that their depth sucks - like Edmonton has traditionally done.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
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Oh cmon. Drop Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Nylander and the Leafs forward group looks AHL caliber as well. Do that with most teams top 4 forwards and see how good they look. :facepalm:

They wouldn’t be comparable to an average AHL forward group, though. Mikheyev, Kerfoot, Kapanen, and Johnsson would tear apart the AHL.
 

Mc5RingsAndABeer

5-14-6-1
May 25, 2011
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or maybe it's because asside from McDavid, Draisaitl, Neal and RNH the Oilers forward group would be comparable to an average AHL team.
That's the HF board opinion but it isn't true. The bottom six doesn't have flashy names but they've got decent speed, hockey IQ, and defensive ability.

Draisaitl should get Selke consideration this year.

Either way, your argument here is irrelevant. I was responding to you saying that Draisaitl playing more minutes accounted for his increased production.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,716
46,681
People over-value their prospects no matter which team they cheer for. You can check my history, I never claimed that Kapanen was more than he is (possibly a third line forward who can PK), and I never claimed that Johnsson was more than he is (a lower end top-6 winger). Players like Kapanen and Johnsson have decent production because the team has attempted to develop them by having them play regularly with Matthews and Tavares instead of the team just stacking a single line with all the teams' talent allowing the rest of the players to wallow on crappy lines and then complaining that their depth sucks - like Edmonton has traditionally done.

Which of the Oilers' wingers from last season who produced like trash would have produced equal to or greater than Johnsson or Kapanen if they played next to Matthews?

Don't mention RNH since in the scenario where Draisaitl and McDavid are split up, he'd be with McDavid and Draisaitl would get what's left over.
 
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