Draft and UDFA Thread 2017-18

[Levitate]

His skating issue is so overblown, and I've seen several top prospects with only average skating improve it over time. Bouchard, as a defenseman, carried that entire team offensively.

I mean, I don't have first hand experience watching him, but before with different prospects I've also seen people say "so and so's skating issues are overblown!" and then it turns out the guy really isn't a great skater.

If he's really really talented and a competent skater then fine. If it's an issue and he's not talented enough to overcome that then it's a risky pick, IMO.

 

[Sarge13]

Apologies if this has already been posted, prospect Jay O'Brien :

Jay O'Brien: Shift by Shift (2018 National Championships)

 

[Harbour Dog]

His skating issue is so overblown, and I've seen several top prospects with only average skating improve it over time. Bouchard, as a defenseman, carried that entire team offensively.

Bouchard is one of the last reasonable picks that I would want at 9, but I fully agree that his skating concerns are getting very overblown.

Just repeating myself right now (which is why I've been staying off the boards this week), but my concern with him is that the way he generates offense will require top end skating at the pro level, and top end skating he does not have.

I see no reason to believe that his skating will hinder him from playing in the defensive zone, and he is currently very good there; but he is getting ranked in so may top 10s because of his offensive dominance this year (which you reference above). And I am very doubtful that his offense will carry over as much as the average prospect's.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So your own personal bias?

I've backed off the Boqvist debate because I'm leaning towards going F at our first pick, but I want to make 2 points: 1) I'm still iffy on these concussion reports. If they're true, it's unfortunate because he's an incredibly talented player (4th in this draft for me), and I'm sure our medical staff has done their due diligence since they'll be privy to more information than any of us ever will be. 2) When evaluation Boqvist at this stage, it's more important to focus on his current areas where he excels rather than worrying about how a 17 year old kid hasn't filled into his fame and finished growing yet. Go back and look at Erik Karlsson in his draft year to get a picture of what I mean. What you should focus on with Boqvist are two main things: how incredible his shot is for a defender his age and how unique he can be as a goal-scoring defender and how he can control the flow of a game. At the U18s, everything flowed through him and he was the guy dictating the pace of those games. That type of talent is very rare to find, and IMO, when you're doing it with the best of your peers in that age group against the best competition in the world, that's what separates him from another offensive dynamo like Merkley. Boqvist elevates the play of everyone around him with his passing, skating, and reads. Merkley is a one-trick pony in the offensive zone who will wow you with flash and dash but then stops caring once the puck is out of the offensive zone. Boqvist will improve as a 1v1 defender in time. The rest of his game is already more advanced than every prospect in this draft except Dahlin and maybe Dobson in some areas.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Final rankings. June 93. Overagers are included with OA in parentheses next to their name. I likely forgot an obvious top three round player because I almost always do by accident.

1. Rasmus Dahlin
2. Andrei Svechnikov
3. Adam Boqvist
4. Filip Zadina
5. Jesperi Kotkaniemi
6. Noah Dobson
7. Bode Wilde
8. Ty Smith
9. Mattias Samuelsson
10. Vitaly Kravtsov
11. Oliver Wahlstrom
12. Quinn Hughes
13. Joe Veleno
14. Evan Bouchard
15. Jake Wise
16. Barrett Hayton
17. Joel Farabee
18. Brady Tkachuk
19. Jesse Ylonen
20. Filip Hallander
21. Dominik Bokk
22. Jonatan Berggren
23. Liam Foudy
24. Calen Addison
25. Alexander Alexeyev
26. Jared McIsaac
27. Rasmus Kupari
28. Jakub Lauko
29. Martin Kaut
30. Grigory Denisenko
31. Ty Dellandrea
32. Jay O’Brien
33. Grigori Dronov (OA)
34. Isac Lundestrom
35. Serron Noel
36. Jacob Bernard-Docker
37. Jacob Olofsson
38. Ryan Merkley
39. Ryan McLeod
40. Akil Thomas
41. Ruslan Iskhakov
42. Nils Lundkvist
43. Jan Jenik
44. Rasmus Sandin
45. Scott Perunovich (OA)
46. Danila Zhuravlyov
47. Blake McLaughlin
48. Bulat Shafigullin
49. Danila Galenyuk
50. Cam Hillis
51. K’Andre Miller
52. Lukas Dostal
53. Ivan Morozov
54. Ty Emberson
55. Jack Drury
56. Linus Nyman (OA)
57. Alex Khovanov
58. Adam Ginning
59. Kirill Marchenko
60. Albin Eriksson
61. Alexei Polodyan (OA)
62. Adam Mascherin
63. Jonny Tychonick
64. Alec Regula
65. Jett Woo
66. Cole Fonstad
67. Amir Miftakhov
68. Vladislav Syomin (OA)
69. Jakub Skarek
70. Tyler Weiss
71. Jack McBain
72. Nikolai Kovalenko
73. Niklas Nordgren
74. Nicolas Beaudin
75. Logan Hutsko (OA)
76. Jacob Ragnarsson
77. Filip Kral
78. Filip Johansson
79. Ryan O’Reilly
80. David Gustafsson
81. Semyon Der-Arguchintsev
82. Riley Damiani
83. Philipp Kurashev
84. Sean Durzi (OA)
85. Dennis Busby
86. Milos Roman
87. Anderson MacDonald
88. Martin Fehervary
89. Xavier Bernard
90. Allan McShane
91. Benoit Olivier Groulx
92. Spencer Stastney
93. German Grachyov

 

[SnowFort]

I hope the Boqvist thing is just one of Brooks’ speculations. I’m really high on him, and he’s one of the players that seem to be falling. The only players I would take over him is Dahlin, Svechnikov, Zadina, Hughes and maybe Wahlstrom (I have those two close, but I think we need defense).

 

[Ola]

I've had 3 concussions in my lifetime. one was pretty bad (dirt bike racing) the other two not so severe so I can relate to the potential issues.
Fortunately, It's had no effects on me moving fwd.

Boqvist however, has suffered 2 in a very short period of time so to me, that's a concern.

There's a lot more physicality and a whole lot less space in the NHL and the fact that he's only a 165 pounds is also a concern for me.

Also, I don't really get the whole "rumor" thing when it comes to his concussions while it's being reported in main stream media like the Toronto Sun, with quotes..

Add to that, the following...

‘On offence, he needs no coaching’: Adam Boqvist gives Sweden a second star defenceman in the NHL draft

The 2017-18 season was a stepping-stone year for Boqvist. He dominated the Swedish SuperElit junior league, leading all defencemen in goals, with 14 in 25 games, to go along with 10 assists. He skated in two pro leagues, including a 15-game SHL stint. And, with Dahlin on the sidelines, he claimed best defenceman honours at the U18s.
His achievements — capped in April by a 29-shot, six-point performance in six U18 games — far outweigh the negatives. He hit some lows, suffering a pair of concussions and receiving limited ice time in both the SHL and Allsvenskan, Sweden’s second league, but forged ahead.

Boqvist as a member of Team Sweden (HANDOUT)
Sjödin, while overall pleased with Boqvist’s adjustment to SHL competition, notes his young defenceman outsmarted himself on occasion, especially in the early going.
“Sometimes he went in to play and he stayed on the ice for, like, 20 seconds. And I said, ‘When you get the shift, at least stay for a normal shift, for 35-40 seconds.’ And he said, ‘Ah, I don’t want to do mistakes,’” Sjödin said of Boqvist’s introduction to the top domestic league. “He doesn’t feel secure out there, so when he did a good pass and it felt good, he changed so he wouldn’t make a mistake.”
Countered an Eastern Conference talent evaluator: “You want to see guys graduate from the SuperElit and at least get a cup of coffee (in the SHL), even if it’s with for only a few minutes a night. It’s a strong indicator he’s on the right track.”
Commitment to the craft was “a bit of an issue” this past season, says Brynäs general manager Stefan Bengtzén, sounding like a proud but dissatisfied father. Boqvist has “special skills,” however, “he doesn’t understand how good he could be.” Bengtzén says Brynäs players must “eat, sleep and **** hockey” and Boqvist is not quite there.

Boom or bust?

This is the reason as to why he's dropping IMO and with that said, I think we end up with him @ #9.

Just a hunch..

Yeah, and I agree with most of those comments.

But on the concussion part, if the doctors do their part in relation to the concussion problem we have become aware of they shall start to pull players from games much more frequently than what they have done in the past.

Especially in junior hockey some doctors are doing just that. Symptoms can come afterwards. If a kid takes a blow to the head that rocks him, the kid should and is often yanked. As far as I am aware this is what have happened to Boqvist, and — again as far as I know — he has not had any concussion symptoms after those blows.

A kid that have to sit out three months due to a concussion scares me a lot. Right. But I am not at all that sure of that we should read in all that much into a kid getting yanked due to a head blow and then not experiencing any symptoms. Couldn’t that even almost be interpreted as a sort of clean bill of health? That you can take a hit and not get issues? I am sure that is to stretch it, but...

 

[Ola]

On Boqvist, I also don’t think that he is 5’11 165 lbs. I would definitely bet on that he is like 6’1 180, at least. He has matured a lot physically and just don’t look small on the De any more, not at all like he did last season.

 

[Mac n Gs]

The more I read about that kid Ryan O'Reilly, the more I hope we're able to snag him on Saturday. Someone posted a really good breakdown of him way back in this thread too, and it's worth a read if you look it up.

@Pavel Buchnevich, you know I have to yell at you about Farabee and Tkachuck at 17/18, right? Instead, I'm gonna ask why you're so down on Nik Nordgren because he's seemingly been a riser in a lot of rankings.

 

[hawkeerox]

Final rankings. June 93. Overagers are included with OA in parentheses next to their name. I likely forgot an obvious top three round player because I almost always do by accident.

1. Rasmus Dahlin
2. Andrei Svechnikov
3. Adam Boqvist
4. Filip Zadina
5. Jesperi Kotkaniemi
6. Noah Dobson
7. Bode Wilde
8. Ty Smith
9. Mattias Samuelsson
10. Vitaly Kravtsov
11. Oliver Wahlstrom
12. Quinn Hughes
13. Joe Veleno
14. Evan Bouchard
15. Jake Wise
16. Barrett Hayton
17. Joel Farabee
18. Brady Tkachuk
19. Jesse Ylonen
20. Filip Hallander
21. Dominik Bokk
22. Jonatan Berggren
23. Liam Foudy
24. Calen Addison
25. Alexander Alexeyev
26. Jared McIsaac
27. Rasmus Kupari
28. Jakub Lauko
29. Martin Kaut
30. Grigory Denisenko
31. Ty Dellandrea
32. Jay O’Brien
33. Grigori Dronov (OA)
34. Isac Lundestrom
35. Serron Noel
36. Jacob Bernard-Docker
37. Jacob Olofsson
38. Ryan Merkley
39. Ryan McLeod
40. Akil Thomas
41. Ruslan Iskhakov
42. Nils Lundkvist
43. Jan Jenik
44. Rasmus Sandin
45. Scott Perunovich (OA)
46. Danila Zhuravlyov
47. Blake McLaughlin
48. Bulat Shafigullin
49. Danila Galenyuk
50. Cam Hillis
51. K’Andre Miller
52. Lukas Dostal
53. Ivan Morozov
54. Ty Emberson
55. Jack Drury
56. Linus Nyman (OA)
57. Alex Khovanov
58. Adam Ginning
59. Kirill Marchenko
60. Albin Eriksson
61. Alexei Polodyan (OA)
62. Adam Mascherin
63. Jonny Tychonick
64. Alec Regula
65. Jett Woo
66. Cole Fonstad
67. Amir Miftakhov
68. Vladislav Syomin (OA)
69. Jakub Skarek
70. Tyler Weiss
71. Jack McBain
72. Nikolai Kovalenko
73. Niklas Nordgren
74. Nicolas Beaudin
75. Logan Hutsko (OA)
76. Jacob Ragnarsson
77. Filip Kral
78. Filip Johansson
79. Ryan O’Reilly
80. David Gustafsson
81. Semyon Der-Arguchintsev
82. Riley Damiani
83. Philipp Kurashev
84. Sean Durzi (OA)
85. Dennis Busby
86. Milos Roman
87. Anderson MacDonald
88. Martin Fehervary
89. Xavier Bernard
90. Allan McShane
91. Benoit Olivier Groulx
92. Spencer Stastney
93. German Grachyov

I can understand much of what you have here, but....

McBain at #71 - really? Methinks you doth detest too much....

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

On Boqvist, I also don’t think that he is 5’11 165 lbs. I would definitely bet on that he is like 6’1 180, at least. He has matured a lot physically and just don’t look small on the De any more, not at all like he did last season.

5'11.5" 165.5 lbs.

Just measured in at those numbers at the combine a few weeks ago.

 

[eco's bones]

Sounds like no Boqvist....and the probable reason why is concern over his head injuries. To me he'd be a top 5 player otherwise. Maybe he will still be for another team.

Can't see the Canadiens trading down from 3 to 9 if Kotkaniemi is their guy. Jesperi still could be there at 9 but there's no guarantee. The Rangers might really have to pony up to make that happen.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Final rankings. June 93. Overagers are included with OA in parentheses next to their name. I likely forgot an obvious top three round player because I almost always do by accident.

1. Rasmus Dahlin
2. Andrei Svechnikov
3. Adam Boqvist
4. Filip Zadina
5. Jesperi Kotkaniemi
6. Noah Dobson
7. Bode Wilde
8. Ty Smith
9. Mattias Samuelsson
10. Vitaly Kravtsov
11. Oliver Wahlstrom
12. Quinn Hughes
13. Joe Veleno
14. Evan Bouchard
15. Jake Wise
16. Barrett Hayton
17. Joel Farabee
18. Brady Tkachuk
19. Jesse Ylonen
20. Filip Hallander
21. Dominik Bokk
22. Jonatan Berggren
23. Liam Foudy
24. Calen Addison
25. Alexander Alexeyev
26. Jared McIsaac
27. Rasmus Kupari
28. Jakub Lauko
29. Martin Kaut
30. Grigory Denisenko
31. Ty Dellandrea
32. Jay O’Brien
33. Grigori Dronov (OA)
34. Isac Lundestrom
35. Serron Noel
36. Jacob Bernard-Docker
37. Jacob Olofsson
38. Ryan Merkley
39. Ryan McLeod
40. Akil Thomas
41. Ruslan Iskhakov
42. Nils Lundkvist
43. Jan Jenik
44. Rasmus Sandin
45. Scott Perunovich (OA)
46. Danila Zhuravlyov
47. Blake McLaughlin
48. Bulat Shafigullin
49. Danila Galenyuk
50. Cam Hillis
51. K’Andre Miller
52. Lukas Dostal
53. Ivan Morozov
54. Ty Emberson
55. Jack Drury
56. Linus Nyman (OA)
57. Alex Khovanov
58. Adam Ginning
59. Kirill Marchenko
60. Albin Eriksson
61. Alexei Polodyan (OA)
62. Adam Mascherin
63. Jonny Tychonick
64. Alec Regula
65. Jett Woo
66. Cole Fonstad
67. Amir Miftakhov
68. Vladislav Syomin (OA)
69. Jakub Skarek
70. Tyler Weiss
71. Jack McBain
72. Nikolai Kovalenko
73. Niklas Nordgren
74. Nicolas Beaudin
75. Logan Hutsko (OA)
76. Jacob Ragnarsson
77. Filip Kral
78. Filip Johansson
79. Ryan O’Reilly
80. David Gustafsson
81. Semyon Der-Arguchintsev
82. Riley Damiani
83. Philipp Kurashev
84. Sean Durzi (OA)
85. Dennis Busby
86. Milos Roman
87. Anderson MacDonald
88. Martin Fehervary
89. Xavier Bernard
90. Allan McShane
91. Benoit Olivier Groulx
92. Spencer Stastney
93. German Grachyov

You listed Samuelsson at 9 just to troll us, right?

 

[DutchShamrock]

On Boqvist, I also don’t think that he is 5’11 165 lbs. I would definitely bet on that he is like 6’1 180, at least. He has matured a lot physically and just don’t look small on the De any more, not at all like he did last season.

No body under reports their size in hockey. Not by 15 pounds.

5'11.5" 165.5 lbs.

Just measured in at those numbers at the combine a few weeks ago.

 

[WilsonNY14]

Random question... does anyone know if the draft will have an audio feed on Sirius XM or another avenue? Traveling by car during the draft sadly...

 

[Ghost of jas]

Random question... does anyone know if the draft will have an audio feed on Sirius XM or another avenue? Traveling by car during the draft sadly...

Coverage on XM91 begins at 3:00 PM EST.

 

[Zibanejbread]

Pronman Mailbag: Final thoughts before the 2018 draft

Do you see any prospects sneaking into the top 10 that are not usually ranked there? For instance, could we see a team take Hayton, Kravtsov, Veleno, etc. in the top 10?
There are teams who have Barrett Hayton and Kravtsov in their top 10, but unless it’s Chicago or the Rangers, I don’t see the board lining up for that to happen.

 

[darko]

I hope there's a good stream. Just realised it won't be on tv over here.

 

[Irishguy42]

I hope there's a good stream. Just realised it won't be on tv over here.

NHL should have a stream on their website.

 

[Edge]

Personally, I think the Bouchard skating thing is a bit overdone.

I think people are so focused on the offensive numbers that they're concerned Bouchard can't be as successful offensively as the NHL level because of his skating.

I tend to think his offensive numbers are on the high side because his team needed him to be that player. I've always seen him as more of a two-way player at the NHL level, albeit one who can move the puck and put up some points.

If you're expecting 55-60 points out of Bouchard, you'll probably be disappointed and the skating will probably not help him hit that mountain peak.

If you're okay with 40-5o points, (Shattenkirk type numbers), then you'll probably be content.

The funny thing is that right now I really don't think there's much difference between Bouchard and Dobson's skating.

The key difference? The makeup of their teams and the role they're asked to play.

 

[offdacrossbar]

at #9 realistically with who will likely be there at 9.

wahlstrom. if gone,

boqvist. if gone,

one of dobson or bouchard. if both gone,

kravtsov. if gone,

farabee is the guy with a possible move down opportunity.

let me throw another thing out there, if ALL of our guys are gone at 9, do we move down and grab another 2nd or 3rd ?? i mean moving from 9 to say 14 or whatever gets us possible farabee and another pick in the top 75 players. i mean there are names in that 30-60 range that look very good.

just a thought and again im not advocating for that unless all the names we love are gone by 9

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

at #9 realistically with who will likely be there at 9.

wahlstrom if gone,

boqvist. if gone,

one of dobson or bouchard, if both gone,

kravtsov, if gone,

farabee is the guy with a possible move down opportunity.

let me throw another thing out there, if ALL of our guys are gone at 9, do we move down and grab and grab another 2nd or 3rd ?? i mean moving from 9 to say 14 or whatever gets us possible farabee and another pick in the top 75 players. i mean there are names in that 30-60 range that look very good.

just a thought.

Our guys or your guys? Because there’s most definitely going to be someone there at 9 if we’re adding Farabee and Kravtsov into it

 

[Edge]

at #9 realistically with who will likely be there at 9.

wahlstrom if gone,

boqvist. if gone,

one of dobson or bouchard, if both gone,

kravtsov, if gone,

farabee is the guy with a possible move down opportunity.

let me throw another thing out there, if ALL of our guys are gone at 9, do we move down and grab and grab another 2nd or 3rd ?? i mean moving from 9 to say 14 or whatever gets us possible farabee and another pick in the top 75 players. i mean there are names in that 30-60 range that look very good.

just a thought.

From what limited info they've revealed, I think the Rangers are comfortable at 9 and believe their guy will be there. I'm not getting the sense that a move-down is on the table, especially considering that they're not trading with the Islanders or Flyers. So that leaves Edmonton at 10 (in which they would really have to fear losing a guy to the Rangers to want to move up a single slot), and Dallas at 13 (which is a significant drop/risk from the 9 spot).

I think a move up is possible, if there's a guy they view as being in a higher tier on the board.

 

[offdacrossbar]

From what limited info they've revealed, I think the Rangers are comfortable at 9 and believe their guy will be there. I'm not getting the sense that a move-down is on the table, especially considering that they're not trading with the Islanders or Flyers. So that leaves Edmonton at 10 (in which they would really have to fear losing a guy to the Rangers to want to move up a single slot), and Dallas at 13 (which is a significant drop/risk from the 9 spot).

I think a move up is possible, if there's a guy they view as being in a higher tier on the board.

i agree, i dont see moving down as likely. moving up is possible but i dont like the idea of moving kevin hayes to draft tkachuck. at all.

having said that, to deal with dallas wouldn't be crazy, especially if they feel they can get joel farabee at 13- not out of the question btw and add another pick. #9 for #13 and #44 ??

there seems to be great value in that 30-70 range. adding more prospects never hurts.

but moving down seems unlikely.

 

[Inferno]

I love wahlstrom..I think he's going to put up a lot of points in the nhl...I also wonder if coaches will hate him with his game away from the puck....hmmm