Does anyone still think Marner is better than Matthews?

[Its not your fault]

Fans also question his ability to lead. His passion and the give a sh*t meter.

Some also didn't appreciate the offseason charges file against him by the woman whose car he tried to get into.





My bad. Nylander's deal ends in the same year as Matthews. Marner's is the year after.

NMC for Matthews kicks off in 3 years



You sure do know political words. Baseless. Biased. Unequivocal. And all the rest.

I can freely speculate that an American might want to play in America.

And I can also freely speculate that my team might need to look into the likelihood of resigning him. If they feel it's risky, I would prefer my team to explore trading options so that the team can maintain it's progress rather than have him walk for nothing.

I prefer my team to have a contingency plan.

As much as it ruffles your (biased) feathers.

Ruffles your biased feathers! Lol you started this talk with a one sided opinion on the matter. You sir just landed in the hypocrite pile pookie.

 

[supermann_98]

Entered this thread to read a possible Marner vs Matthews argument (does not make sense) and...

Exit.

I came in because every time I see the thread title it makes me chuckle:
Does anyone still think Marner is better than Matthews?

It’s the “still” part that gets me, like who EVER thought Marner was better than Matthews? And Matthews is still a year younger in his development as a player, it’s not even close.

Then i come in here and read some posts and I’m getting outta here real quick, not worth my time arguing with that <9%

 

[Notsince67]

Streaky [stree-kee]
varying or uneven in quality

As measured by?

 

[stickty111]

I came in because every time I see the thread title it makes me chuckle:
Does anyone still think Marner is better than Matthews?

It’s the “still” part that gets me, like who EVER thought Marner was better than Matthews? And Matthews is still a year younger in his development as a player, it’s not even close.

Then i come in here and read some posts and I’m getting outta here real quick, not worth my time arguing with that <9%

It's kind of cringe worthy you have people saying they would rather trade Matthews over Marner.

 

[zeke]

It's kind of cringe worthy you have people saying they would rather trade Matthews over Marner.

Kinda cringeworth that anyone wants to trade either tbh.

 

[Pookie]

This is nonsensical, because what another American player did or didnt do has zero relevancy on how Matthews personally feels about Toronto and the Leafs.

You're just doubling down on a bad point.

But it’s not nonsensical to name RFAs that stay with their teams and conclude that proves Matthews will stay here?

I’m just using the same tactics... and yes... it’s absurd. He’s a human who will make his decision independent of what others do.

When I do it, it’s nonsense.

When it agrees with your view, you don’t hesitate to pile on.

Maybe you should think about that.

 

[Pookie]

Ofcourse we can but it is a few years away. Why even bring up the topic now? There are other players like Reilly who is literally 2 yrs away from UFA or Andersen who will become a UFA next summer. It is like contemplating which career fields you want your kids to get into the moment your wife is pregnant. Instead of thinking will the house and Current area be suitable when the kids are ready for school. Like if you have been living in Downtown, would it make sense to move to the suburbs.

We started an RESP in the days after each kid was born. In addition to focusing on breast feeding and child care.

It’s possible to consider short and long term events at the same time.

 

[Pookie]

So does a lot of players. I really don’t see your point. It is like you are hoping Matthews will leave the Leafs when he hits UFA, just to prove your point.
Like I said, it is still 4 yrs, heck 3 yrs if you count the no trade clause away.
Honestly, when it comes to someone like Matthews, McDavid, Deai, even Marner or Jones or Eichel, unless they sucks and can’t produce, if he is made available today, all 30 teams will call with their offers. And it won’t be here is my crap for them.
Pretty sure you will use the Kessel trade for an example to say the Leafs got fleeced.
Lastly, you still have not answer my question

I don’t care if he leaves or stays. That’s the choice he will make.

Like Kwahi Leonard... who are we to say Toronto is his best option?

Maybe. Maybe not.

However, if I’m the team... I try to force his hand BEFORE the NMC kicks in.

Is he serious about resigning here or is he planning to test the UFA waters. And what price tag range is he in.

If they get the sense that he’s a flight risk... you had better bet we should take serious offers and create a bidding war of significant proportions.

If he enters into that NMC year with the intent of being UFA.... that will be a colossal failure of management.

 

[Gabriel426]

We started an RESP in the days after each kid was born. In addition to focusing on breast feeding and child care.

It’s possible to consider short and long term events at the same time.

Agree. Then I guess we can also plan the parade when the Leafs win the Cup this year or next or the year after and so on and on.
Also the Jays too. Bc it is always good to have a plan. Maybe the Leafs should start planning for Mack, when he hits UFA in a 3 years. And Avs fans should worry bc he has a modified NTC kicking in as soon as next season, and prepare or at least entertain the idea that Mack might be traded in order for the Avs not to lose him via UFA. bc 1. He is Canadian. 2. He spends his off season in the East. 3. He is one of the two Hockey players in Tim Horton commercial. 4. Apparently he is Sid protege and they are best bud. Will he go to sign with the Pens, since Both Zucker and Hornqvist combined 10.8mil deal runs out at the same time as Mack.
Tkachuk and Boeser signed bridge deals with their respective Canadians teams, should their fans be prepared they will leave their teams at this moment when it is 1 yr into their bridge deals. Certainly I don’t see that on their discussion boards.
There is no doubt that a lot can happen, like Player getting marry and want to settle down....but Matthews could meet a Canadian girl and fall in love and married and start family in Toronto. Or he could marry an actress and like to move to Hollywood but during his last year of that contract, his wife signs a deal for a TV series that will be shooting in Toronto for the following two years.
A lot of factors will be in play between now till the time his contract ends that we just can’t predict or foresee.

Like I posted a few pages ago, you are reaching.

Also, Kawhi is a poor example bc 1. He plays in the NBA. 2. He was only in TO for a year. 3. DD, and KL all signed extensions with the Raptors despite having the chance to play elsewhere.

 

[Buds17]

I don’t care if he leaves or stays. That’s the choice he will make.

Like Kwahi Leonard... who are we to say Toronto is his best option?

Maybe. Maybe not.

However, if I’m the team... I try to force his hand BEFORE the NMC kicks in.

Is he serious about resigning here or is he planning to test the UFA waters. And what price tag range is he in.

If they get the sense that he’s a flight risk... you had better bet we should take serious offers and create a bidding war of significant proportions.

If he enters into that NMC year with the intent of being UFA.... that will be a colossal failure of management.

In an ideal situation, I'd like to think any GM would rather get a return for a high end player instead of having them walk for no return. It becomes tougher though if the Leafs are in position to win, and perhaps to a even greater degree if they haven't won to that point. The contracts of Nylander, Tavares and Marner are also either expiring or getting closer to it around that time. Unless Matthews would be willing to commit long term upon any trade, a futures type trade return might not be that appealing to a win now team (assuming the Leafs are still in that situation).

 

[Gabriel426]

I don’t care if he leaves or stays. That’s the choice he will make.

Like Kwahi Leonard... who are we to say Toronto is his best option?

Maybe. Maybe not.

However, if I’m the team... I try to force his hand BEFORE the NMC kicks in.

Is he serious about resigning here or is he planning to test the UFA waters. And what price tag range is he in.

If they get the sense that he’s a flight risk... you had better bet we should take serious offers and create a bidding war of significant proportions.

If he enters into that NMC year with the intent of being UFA.... that will be a colossal failure of management.

None of us know what AM wants to do in a few years, heck, I don’t even think he is 100% in what he wants to do in 4 yrs. he might want to resign and extend now, but if the Leafs tank for the next 3 yrs, he might ask for a trade. He might still want to leave in a few years even if the Leafs win 3 straight Cups. Heck, he might want to retire from Hockey after Three-peat with the Leafs to play baseball like his dad, then come back in two years and win three more Cups again with the Leafs and Dubas becomes the villain that most here want him to be.

He might married a TO girl and settle in TO or an American girl and settle in TO or married a Japanese TO girl who wants to live in Hollywood. He might even married a TO girl this summer and have a divorce three years down the road. He might be single four years from now. He might even meet a guy and fall in love and get married in Niagara Falls. We just don’t know and I don’t think it is fair to use he might married an American girl and move back to the States as a reason he will leave 4 yrs from now, as he is not even married.
As for spending off seasons in Arizona, most players spend off seasons in their home cities.
Lastly, I don’t think any GMs Like to lose players for nothing. Even if the return is a 6th rounder for someone like Tima, pretty sure Dubas would rather have a 6th rounder. I don’t know what AM will be asking when his contract expires but one thing for sure, it will be a contract based on what he is doing and done instead of what his potentially could produce like his current contract. If he avg 50goals and 40 assists, and players with similar age and stats get 15mil/yr, he might take less or more just like any other players. But to think any players will say my worth is 15mil but I will sign for 8mil for the love of the game and team...that’s a fantasy.

 

[Morbo]

Two completely different Sports.
Basketball players movement are very common. It seems like every year, there will be at least one top UFA moving to a different team.

That wasn't the point though. It was more two completely different views on Canada.

 

[authentic]

I came in because every time I see the thread title it makes me chuckle:
Does anyone still think Marner is better than Matthews?

It’s the “still” part that gets me, like who EVER thought Marner was better than Matthews? And Matthews is still a year younger in his development as a player, it’s not even close.

Then i come in here and read some posts and I’m getting outta here real quick, not worth my time arguing with that <9%

How is Matthews still a year younger in his development as a player? Marner is only 3 months older, started in the NHL at the exact same time and Matthews actually played in a pro mens league before arriving to the NHL as opposed to the OHL for Marner.

 

[authentic]

arguing over which elite top tier player is better.. and both are Leafs.. good feeling.

Yes it is. It's pretty clear who's better, but it's not been by the whopping margin that many seem to think if you ask me.

 

[Menzinger]

But it’s not nonsensical to name RFAs that stay with their teams and conclude that proves Matthews will stay here?

I’m just using the same tactics... and yes... it’s absurd. He’s a human who will make his decision independent of what others do.

When I do it, it’s nonsense.

When it agrees with your view, you don’t hesitate to pile on.

Maybe you should think about that.

You came into this thread suggesting Matthews was likely not going to leave the team at his next opportunity - based on nothing but your own imagination- multiple folks respond by pointing out the reality that the majority of star players stay with their drafted teams.

And while yes, every individual may be different, without a a single shread of actual evidence that suggests otherwise (and no, a player's birthplace is not evidence), its a fair assumption to make in this point in time that your original claim is nothing but worrying over nothing.

 

[Pookie]

You came into this thread suggesting Matthews was likely not going to leave the team at his next opportunity - based on nothing but your own imagination- multiple folks respond by pointing out the reality that the majority of star players stay with their drafted teams.

And while yes, every individual may be different, without a a single shread of actual evidence that suggests otherwise (and no, a player's birthplace is not evidence), its a fair assumption to make in this point in time that your original claim is nothing but worrying over nothing.

Matthews was born in California.

Nope no evidence.

With respect to Arizona, he played his hockey there. Has an offseason home there. Was a major fan of the Coyotes growing up. And the Coyote org and Matthews camp kicked the tires on an offer sheet before he signed in Toronto.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Matthews was born in California.

Nope no evidence.

With respect to Arizona, he played his hockey there. Has an offseason home there. Was a major fan of the Coyotes growing up. And the Coyote org and Matthews camp kicked the tires on an offer sheet before he signed in Toronto.

Nope. No evidence. Just the sort of stuff that we said about Tavares.

Well, expect for the part about trying to get into a woman's car at 2am and being charged... we never said that about Tavares.

I am not at all worried if he leaves. If he stays, that's good too.

I would be disappointed if he left and we got nothing in return.

Good thing we have folks working on contingency plans... right?

This offer sheet never happened as Matthews was extended before he was an RFA, so that's just nonsensical.
At the end of the day, it seems like you don't like the player because of a drunk mistake he made as a kid with too much power that he probably has learned from and regrets. Regardless, that's fine for you to have that opinion but everything else is nonsense.
I don't see you making posts about "contingency plans" four years into the future for other players.

 

[weems]

Matthews was born in California.

Nope no evidence.

With respect to Arizona, he played his hockey there. Has an offseason home there. Was a major fan of the Coyotes growing up. And the Coyote org and Matthews camp kicked the tires on an offer sheet before he signed in Toronto.

Nope. No evidence. Just the sort of stuff that we said about Tavares.

Well, expect for the part about trying to get into a woman's car at 2am and being charged... we never said that about Tavares.

I am not at all worried if he leaves. If he stays, that's good too.

I would be disappointed if he left and we got nothing in return.

Good thing we have folks working on contingency plans... right?

Could you explain this one a little further?

 

[Pookie]

This offer sheet never happened as Matthews was extended before he was an RFA, so that's just nonsensical.
At the end of the day, it seems like you don't like the player because of a drunk mistake he made as a kid with too much power that he probably has learned from and regrets. Regardless, that's fine for you to have that opinion but everything else is nonsense.
I don't see you making posts about "contingency plans" four years into the future for other players.

You are reaching.

I posted quite a bit about other players and contingency plans. From Andersen to Kadri to Reilly to Marner to Nylander.... we have discussed trades at every junction. Hated the Marleau deal the moment it was signed, said it would be an issue in year 3 that we would need to address.

I think about the future. Other folks don't save a penny for retirement and think it will magically look after itself. We all coexist. It's just how I'm wired. Plan for what you can control.

Matthews may or may not leave. We control what we do with him for the next 3 years until that NMC kicks in.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Matthews was born in California.

Nope no evidence.

With respect to Arizona, he played his hockey there. Has an offseason home there. Was a major fan of the Coyotes growing up. And the Coyote org and Matthews camp kicked the tires on an offer sheet before he signed in Toronto.

Nope. No evidence. Just the sort of stuff that we said about Tavares.

Well, expect for the part about trying to get into a woman's car at 2am and being charged... we never said that about Tavares.

I am not at all worried if he leaves. If he stays, that's good too.

I would be disappointed if he left and we got nothing in return.

Good thing we have folks working on contingency plans... right?

this would be called tampering, as Matthews was still under contract

 

[Oscar Peterson]

You are reaching.

I posted quite a bit about other players and contingency plans. From Andersen to Kadri to Reilly to Marner to Nylander.... we have discussed trades at every junction. Hated the Marleau deal the moment it was signed, said it would be an issue in year 3 that we would need to address.

I think about the future. Other folks don't save a penny for retirement and think it will magically look after itself. We all coexist. It's just how I'm wired. Plan for what you can control.

Matthews may or may not leave. We control what we do with him for the next 3 years until that NMC kicks in.

You think about the future, which is why you have mentioned Matthews' past, non-hockey-related incident in multiple posts now? But sure I'm reaching.
What is your point? That he may or may not leave at the end of his contract? No one disagrees with that, this is true regarding any player. What are you actually trying to say here?

 

[Morbo]

Matthews was born in California.

Nope no evidence.

correct.

With respect to Arizona, he played his hockey there. Has an offseason home there. Was a major fan of the Coyotes growing up. And the Coyote org and Matthews camp kicked the tires on an offer sheet before he signed in Toronto.

This last would qualify as "made up evidence".

 

[Gabriel426]

I just don’t see the point to continue the discussions of will Matthews leave after his current contract bc that’s 4 yrs away.
Thinking long term is great but regardless of how long a player sign his contract unless it is a one-two yr deal. I don’t think any fan bases or GMs will think about the possibility said player leaving when he hasn’t even finish playing the first year of the contract.
Matthews was never OfferSheet bc he resigned before he had the chance. Would Arizona OS Matthews if they have the chance, probably but so will every other teams in the League. Same thing apply to McDavid.
Got a question, can anyone name me a Leafs player in their prime who left via UFA despite Leafs offering him a contract as good as the accepted offer?
JVR and Bozak don’t count as the Leafs didn’t offer them and just let them walk.

 

[Pookie]

This last would qualify as "made up evidence".

Friedman: Coyotes eyed Auston Matthews offer sheet before extension

Per Elliott Friedman:

“The Toronto Maple Leafs 100% believed that if Auston Matthews got to July 1 last year, Arizona was going to offer-sheet him seven years, the max,” Friedman said. “And I’ve looked at it, and people around the league have told me they believe that to be the case.

“Nobody has said to me that’s false. I think the Leafs believed it, I think the Coyotes were going to do it and I think the league knew it. So the attitude is moving.”


.... if the “league knew it” it would be beyond naive to think that word didn’t get to Matthews. Now, he obviously opted to take the extension and this never came to fruition.

But, we know Arizona is interested. And Matthews knows Arizona is interested.

Up to him from here. If he doesn’t sign an extension before the NMC kicks in... time to take serious offers.

 

[Pookie]

this would be called tampering, as Matthews was still under contract

Hehe... tampering.

As if that’s ever been a challenge in this league before.

UFAs signing new deals with teams at 12:01am July 1st for decades.