Does anyone still think Marner is better than Matthews?

[Maple Leaf]

Can Marner be unprotected

 

[LeafsNation75]

Can Marner be unprotected

He doesn't have a NMC until the 2023-24 season, so technically that can happen should Dubas choose to do that.

 

[kb]

correct.



This last would qualify as "made up evidence".

Well, I would more call it pure BS from someone whose posts on all subjects suggest some form of logic impairment.

 

[kb]

If you are responding to who I think you're responding to, then I can assure you that is not why he doesn't like the player. That's just his excuse.

Needed a new whopping boy because the Leafs traded Kadri.

And of course.....the GM too.....

 

[TheProspector]

I used to occasionally trolled Chicago and Pittsburgh forums when they were going through their mini dynasties.

This... this is just so alien. And so wrong.

 

[stickty111]

Needed a new whopping boy because the Leafs traded Kadri.

And of course.....the GM too.....

I thought he would have been more happy after Kadri was gone, but man was I wrong.

 

[FraumBallard]

Dude.

Tampering has been a part of the NHL as long as there has been ice.

Teams don’t talk to agents of players under contract.

The mentions their interest to mutual friends of the agent.

Tampering Team: Hey “Friend of Agent, hypothetically speaking we are interested in player x. What would it take to sign him?

Friend of Agent: Hey Agent. I think Tampering Team might be interested. What are you looking for?

Agent: we would want Xzy

Friend of Agent: hey Tamerinf Team, player D would be interested. But it would take ....

Tampering Team: hey Friend of Agent, we are prepared to do that.

That’s how tampering works without getting caught.

And it’s been going on for ages.

Agreed.
Anyone who follows any sport knows that.
So.
That leaves one option for some people.

 

[FraumBallard]

Only Mathews knows! I'm not loosing sleep on something I cannot control. Unless you have been living under a rock this is known and been talked about enough that it seems more like it would fall into the troll category. Imo if he wants to move on hopfully he's man enough to say. I think it's more he knows how good he can be and wants what he's worth. Retirement and big money after 30 is less and less. This would set him up for an 8 year contract that would bring him into his mid 30s. He's playing the system, he's aloud too.

Sounds about right.
Good post.

 

[FraumBallard]

This is nonsensical, because what another American player did or didnt do has zero relevancy on how Matthews personally feels about Toronto and the Leafs.

You're just doubling down on a bad point.

Nice.
I finally agree with you.
Sensible take.

 

[FraumBallard]

Ofcourse we can but it is a few years away. Why even bring up the topic now? There are other players like Reilly who is literally 2 yrs away from UFA or Andersen who will become a UFA next summer. It is like contemplating which career fields you want your kids to get into the moment your wife is pregnant. Instead of thinking will the house and Current area be suitable when the kids are ready for school. Like if you have been living in Downtown, would it make sense to move to the suburbs.

Good analogy.
Makes it simple to understand.
Well done.

 

[FraumBallard]

Nobody said this. Moving Matthews now or anytime soon would be extremely stupid. He is our best player and one of the best players in the league. Moving Matthews in 3-4 years can't be effectively evaluated at this point in time, because none of the necessary information exists yet.

We can discuss players with term remaining, but you are not actually bringing any discussion or point to the table. You are throwing out baseless, inflammatory speculation about something you know nothing about that isn't relevant for years, if ever. You even admit it's not something we will be doing anytime soon. Of course teams will have appropriate contingency plans in place at an appropriate time. Of course the team is going to inquire about Matthews' likelihood of re-signing and make appropriate decisions when that information is more known.

However, as has been shown to you, star players leaving their drafted team in the cap era is incredibly rare, especially for players of Matthews' caliber, and especially for a competitive team with resources. As has been shown to you, in the most similar comparable to this situation, the American sniper was re-signed to an 8 year contract as a UFA by Toronto after a 5 year post-ELC contract. As has been shown to you, there have been zero Americans in the top 100 in P/GP in the cap era that have left their Canadian teams in UFA, while multiple re-signed and one came from an American team to a Canadian team in UFA. Every indication and statement from Matthews is that he loves it in Toronto, and he wants to be here a long time.

Regardless of what happens in 3-4 years, we have a generational goal scorer and one of the best players in the league for the foreseeable future, and people are rightfully thrilled about that.

This is a solid post.
Like.

 

[ACC1224]

Is the thought train that Marner is better than Matthews because one day Matthews may leave?

 

[FraumBallard]

So, enjoy it.

Contingency plans absolutely have to be developed. It would be a colossal blunder... of the we think we can make the playoffs so won't tank for McDavid proportion.... to not consider the likelihood of resigning the player and take action accordingly.

The existence of a contingency plan shouldn't cause this much stress.

This whole discussion is insane.

Fair point.
You're getting a lot of pushback
here.
I can relate.
Debates are a good thing.
I respect the fact that you stand for what you believe.
Whether I agree or not.

 

[kb]

Is the thought train that Marner is better than Matthews because one day Matthews may leave?

This is possible. But also some may just be picking their favourite player, and Marner is a happy go lucky, easy to cheer for kid who just happens to be an outstanding young player in this league.

 

[LeafsNation75]

This is possible. But also some may just be picking their favourite player, and Marner is a happy go lucky, easy to cheer for kid who just happens to be an outstanding young player in this league.

The only thing Marner is currently better at is his play making ability.

 

[SlpLessInMuskoka18]

The only thing Matty does better than Mitchy is shoot better while having a height /weight advantage..

Wouldn't even be a discussion if Mitchy was 6'3 220 same stats as he's put up.

 

[SlpLessInMuskoka18]

The biggest factor for me.. I can see marner hitting 40/90 seasons in the future. Just by progression and strengthening his shooting.

Matty will never turn into the playmaker of marners caliber. Can barely see Matty getting 50/50 seasons.. the guy will need 60 or 70 goals to be the leagues top dog.

 

[LeafsNation75]

The biggest factor for me.. I can see marner hitting 40/90 seasons in the future. Just by progression and strengthening his shooting.

Matty will never turn into the playmaker of marners caliber. Can barely see Matty getting 50/50 seasons.. the guy will need 60 or 70 goals to be the leagues top dog.

Marner's already had a 94 point season, so he's done at least half that part. Can he also score 40 goals? Anything is possible, however every season he's had more assists than goals. Plus his highest goal total was 26 in the 2018-19 season when he had 94 points, because his assist total that year was 68.

 

[SlpLessInMuskoka18]

Its been beaten to death. Marner has played more defensive usage than Matty and has been on the pk for quite a long time now. Whether or not hes overall best def forward hes been used as it.

So if the guys our top def forward and he leads our offense for years.. how does he become the #2 guy.. because he's frail, skinny and goofy??

 

[IPS]

The biggest factor for me.. I can see marner hitting 40/90 seasons in the future. Just by progression and strengthening his shooting.

Matty will never turn into the playmaker of marners caliber. Can barely see Matty getting 50/50 seasons.. the guy will need 60 or 70 goals to be the leagues top dog.

How many players make major strides in their shooting beyond 23 years old?

Mitch's shot is a muffin, I don't ever see him scoring 40+ goals. Hope to be proven wrong of course.

 

[SlpLessInMuskoka18]

I agree with his shot.. its always been rough. Also most likely area to improve on.

I feel is shot selection and timing to pass or shoot is going to be the bigger factor in him ever achieving 40 as a career high goal guy.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I agree with his shot.. its always been rough. Also most likely area to improve on.

I feel is shot selection and timing to pass or shoot is going to be the bigger factor in him ever achieving 40 as a career high goal guy.

Here is an example of some Marner's goal using his shot, so it's not like he's completely horrible with it.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Matthews was the league leader in takeaways for forwards this season and highest scorer 5vs5. His defensive game improved leaps and bounds. Matthews lead the team in scoring for the second time also. Marner and Matthews now have 2 team scoring titles each.The list of accomplishments for Matthews this year gives him the title of best player.

Last season Marner popped and put up a career year,this year Matthews popped and put up a career year. Now if both pop and have career playoffs together it bodes very well.

I don’t like comparing teammates because it to often gets like guard the flag. We have both. That said,Willy was most improved this season and that’s really telling in how spoiled we are offensively

I am not omitting Tavares but he played with injuries nagging him so he gets a pass for playing excellent but it wasn’t his best ha. F*** we are solid if this ever all clicks at the same time. Like if Tavares is all healthy he could possible explode on this playin.

We have so many stars. I feel so fortunate but hell yeah, we deserve it.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I forgot to include this Marner goal from this past season against Carolina in that 8-6 win, when Matthews made that great pass to him.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I forgot to include this Marner goal from this past season against Carolina in that 8-6 win, when Matthews made that great pass to him.

Both ends of that goal was dirty ha. The pass and scoring off the knee. It looked like skill