Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations? Deux

[diceman934]

He's the second highest paid player in the league and is free at 26, the deal stinks.

It is a huge overpayment. That is 8 year term money for 5 years.

Using the McDavid contract as a comparable is a joke McDavid is a one man show and should win the MVP again. He has 80 points and his team has scored 156 goals . He is producing over 50% of his teams offence and should be the run away leader in the vote if people under stand hockey.

Effectively Mathews contract is vastly superior.

Dubas over paid twice thus far.

 

[JEI]

I'm of similar mindset in that you pay the big guys their worth and fill ranks with cheaper alternatives. Nylander, I have no issues with his contract. Matthews contract doesn't necessarily sit well with me on term, but I understand in terms of production and projection he was a hard one to nail down (elite center scorer). Still, I think longer term would have been way more ideal (7-8yrs) even if it means moving others out. Marner will be the one that is most interesting given what's transpired so far. I'm hoping he comes in at under 10m, but if he continues this pace it'll be difficult. So long as he doesn't expire at the same time Nylander/Matthews do.

 

[justafan22]

Thank god he didn't sign Kapanen during the season

 

[Menzinger]

I'm of similar mindset in that you pay the big guys their worth and fill ranks with cheaper alternatives. Nylander, I have no issues with his contract. Matthews contract doesn't necessarily sit well with me on term, but I understand in terms of production and projection he was a hard one to nail down (elite center scorer). Still, I think longer term would have been way more ideal (7-8yrs) even if it means moving others out. Marner will be the one that is most interesting given what's transpired so far. I'm hoping he comes in at under 10m, but if he continues this pace it'll be difficult. So long as he doesn't expire at the same time Nylander/Matthews do.

I agree - would especially prefer Marner and Matthews be up for renewal in different years.

Problem is I think some want “steals” when it comes to contracts and I don’t think that’s realistic. So far Dubas has signed his guys within the realm of their comparisons: it hasn’t lead to any amazing contracts but everything is manageable, which is all that matters.

Just pay the main guys their money and penny pinch elsewhere.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

$12.5m/8 is a very fair contract for both sides. Less then a million for an extra 3 years. And if Matthews really cared about the team like he said he does then he would have took less then that. He talked a big game a few day prior to signing, but the greed got the best of him.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The Shanaplan was for Shanny and Dubas to sell their stars on taking less $$ then market in order to create a strong competitive teams around them. Both Shanny and Dubas hit the media trail in the summer trying to sell the "We before Me" plan to the 3 Amigos, and claiming they're not interested it setting new high water market limits when resigning. They even claimed they required "team players" to buy into the plan or they wouldn't be here long-term.

I thought it was naive of Leafs management to believe this strategy was going to work, and I blame Shanny in a way for thinking a young inexperienced GM was going to be able to sweet talk and sell this plan to seasoned veteran player agents. This reminds me in a way of when Leafs replaced Quinn with JFJ and and then a rookie GM made endless signing mistakes that result in failure not success.

That plan has been a complete failure as Leafs kids are clearly not taking any discounts, and forcing Dubas to overpay, and also not willing to give away very many UFA years, while shattering the market comparables for their past production.

Wow. Well said. Dubas isn't delivering the vision.

Dubas has to wait til Aho signs to show Marner what other teams are doing.

I'm not sure why we think our team is going to do so well over the next 5 years when our best LW is Johnsson and we have one right shot D named Zaitsev.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

$12.5m/8 is a very fair contract for both sides. Less then a million for an extra 3 years. And if Matthews really cared about the team like he said he does then he would have took less then that. He talked a big game a few day prior to signing, but the greed got the best of him.

He definitely doesnt care. He stole Kapanen's lunch money. Bully.

 

[Mess]

naw , Dumbass actually believed he talked JT into coming here and thought he could talk the kids into taking discounts to balance out making JT the 2nd highest cap hit in the NHL

Have you seen the newest TV commercial portraying a young JT about 5-6 years old sitting on his couch with his father in TO cheering on the Leafs, watching Dougie Gilmour's famous behind the net playoff wraparound goal on Cujo, with the caption "making lifelong dreams come true"?

Goes nicely with the JT posting pictures of himself as a young boy on twitter after signing, in his Leafs PJs and Leaf bedspread captioned.. "When dreams come true".

Santa Claus could have been the Leafs GM and Johnny would have come home. Making him the highest paid UFA in a NHL history in a Cap World not something that needed specialty GM skills.

The credit of luring JT should be limited to setting the table of a future potential Cup team to join and that was done mainly through previous drafts.

 

[Menzinger]

How many childhood Leafs fans have hit UFA in recent years and didn’t want to sign with the Leafs?

The reality is the Leafs had a horrible record of attracting high profile UFAs, so this notion that JT was a “lock” for the Leafs doesn’t hold up to the least bit of scrutiny.

Y’all remember childhood Leafs fan Stamkos rejected Shanny’s offer to “come home” just a season prior....

 

[WTFMAN99]

It is a huge overpayment. That is 8 year term money for 5 years.

Using the McDavid contract as a comparable is a joke McDavid is a one man show and should win the MVP again. He has 80 points and his team has scored 156 goals . He is producing over 50% of his teams offence and should be the run away leader in the vote if people under stand hockey.

Effectively Mathews contract is vastly superior.

Dubas over paid twice thus far.

This.

 

[thewave]

How many childhood Leafs fans have hit UFA in recent years and didn’t want to sign with the Leafs?

The reality is the Leafs had a horrible record of attracting high profile UFAs, so this notion that JT was a “lock” for the Leafs doesn’t hold up to the least bit of scrutiny.

Y’all remember childhood Leafs fan Stamkos rejected Shanny’s offer to “come home” just a season prior....

The reason was hinted by both players during the process.

Starting family
Wives from Toronto and Tampa
Family of wives in Toronto and Tampa.

Thats ultimately the reason.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

his goal was to sign our top players to reasonable deals to be able to afford keeping the team together. Sure he could have played super hard ball with Matthews, but I don't think that would have been a smart approach. As long as he keeps the team together, there's no point criticizing him too much in my opinion

 

[Skin Tape Session]

Im not worried. Mats signed five years, Toews , crosby. In five years Matthews aint booking. Why would he want to? We will still be good. What if he's always injured? Locked in at 8. Then what? What if in say three years, well not if, When Connor wants out in a couple years and hes making 12 how do we fit him? My point is A LOT can change in 3 to five years.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

What do you all think Matthews ask will be after 5yrs in Cap%? Do you think it will be higher Cap% than he makes at the start of this contract? Let's say he plays at 40-50g, 90-100pts per 82gp per season.

 

[The Podium]

What do you all think Matthews ask will be after 5yrs in Cap%? Do you think it will be higher Cap% than he makes at the start of this contract? Let's say he plays at 40-50g, 90-100pts per 82gp per season.

Crosby signed for the same dollar 5 years later which was a signficantly lower cap%.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Crosby signed for the same dollar 5 years later which was a signficantly lower cap%.

I don't think this is a good comparable situation. Crosby quite obviously just signed for his lucky number repeatedly and used beneficial term to compensate into his aging years. Such term is not available as a cap balancing tool, and for the purposes of my question I think we can assume that won't be available for Matthews.

 

[The Podium]

I don't think this is a good comparable situation. Crosby quite obviously just signed for his lucky number repeatedly and used beneficial term to compensate into his aging years. Such term is not available as a cap balancing tool, and for the purposes of my question I think we can assume that won't be available for Matthews.

Agreed. But something has to be said for respecting a player at a younger age, and having them return the favour later on. 21 year old Matthews still hasnt made money, that is more important to him right now. At 26, his perspective likely changes. Winning, living situation, endorsements, all become easier sells in negotiations.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Agreed. But something has to be said for respecting a player at a younger age, and having them return the favour later on. 21 year old Matthews still hasnt made money, that is more important to him right now. At 26, his perspective likely changes. Winning, living situation, endorsements, all become easier sells in negotiations.

I don't think Crosby was necessarily return any favours. We know how these contracts go -- Crosby is signed for 9 years where he would feasibly want to play. The final 3 years are at $3m -- it is not unreasonable to believe that these are his Zetterberg years that he will not play. If you take the total amount of money on this contract and divide by the 9 feasibly "playable" years, he makes (12 + 12 + 12 + 10.9 + 10.9 + 10 + 9.6 + 9 + 9 + 3 + 3 + 3) / 9 = $11.6m/yr or a little over 18% of cap at the time. There were just more tools available to circumvent cap at the time by using term. If it is decided he would be retiring for those 3 $3m years, then we have about 16.5% of cap, right around Connor McD, and only slightly more than his RFA contract.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Matthews will want to make more Cap% or anything, but using the same _dollar_ amount from RFA to UFA is probably not a reasonable comparable, given the circumstances.

 

[socko]

Y’all remember childhood Leafs fan Stamkos rejected Shanny’s offer to “come home” just a season prior....

I've always believed that was because the Leafs won the draft lottery and Matthews. I think without Matthews, the Leafs overpay Stamkos and he comes. As it was, Stamkos chose the superior team and superior weather. It was a huge win for Yzerman that set the table for future team friendly deals.

 

[drewjenks]

Wow, nice recovery.

Recovery from .... the #FAX ?

Hey man I'm sorry they upset you! Maybe you should just block me ?

(There's no way to ensure that all my future posts will support your world view).

 

[nuck]

The reason was hinted by both players during the process.

Starting family
Wives from Toronto and Tampa
Family of wives in Toronto and Tampa.

Thats ultimately the reason.

The Leafs were trying to lure Stammer to the worst team in hockey and JT was coming to a playoff team with young stars. I think that was the deciding factor.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Recovery from .... the #FAX ?

Hey man I'm sorry they upset you! Maybe you should just block me ?

(There's no way to ensure that all my future posts will support your world view).

I’m sure they’ll be full of your own made up world. Ignore is pretty close behind, yea.

 

[Bluelines]

Have you seen the newest TV commercial portraying a young JT about 5-6 years old sitting on his couch with his father in TO cheering on the Leafs, watching Dougie Gilmour's famous behind the net playoff wraparound goal on Cujo, with the caption "making lifelong dreams come true"?

Goes nicely with the JT posting pictures of himself as a young boy on twitter after signing, in his Leafs PJs and Leaf bedspread captioned.. "When dreams come true".

Santa Claus could have been the Leafs GM and Johnny would have come home. Making him the highest paid UFA in a NHL history in a Cap World not something that needed specialty GM skills.

The credit of luring JT should be limited to setting the table of a future potential Cup team to join and that was done mainly through previous drafts.

WOW, your linear thought process has really flat-lined.

Lets go with NHL players who are fans of teams other than the one they currently play on as a child.

Who's this guy?

I'll give you a hint, he signed a 5 year contract after his RFA contract.
He was drafted by and continues to play with that team.
He does not play or has ever played with the Habs.

As the cap goes up the ceiling on who is the highest paid UFA goes up, kinda how life is in the cap world.

 

[4thline]

I think I'm developing a twitch from people comparing two things and concluding "they're not comparable".

 

[Dale Gribble]

TBH I don't trust Dubas with the cap. IMO he overpaid Tavares, Nylander, and Matthews. A lot of people are talking about 5-6 year run, but I could see if being only a 2-3 year run - a lot of money tied up in 4 players.