Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations? Deux

[Dale Gribble]

Management has been embarassing around the trio signings to begin with, from Shanahan begging players to the media to take discounts, to getting fleeced by the Matthews camp, and the lil ol' Nylander saga.

Matthews didnt deserve more than Tavares(even on his "discount") and leaves a lot to be desired in his play the last 2 years, even with his goal totals. Coming from a guy who would have paid him 13m at the beginning of the year when he looked like he had "it" back.


I know it's the early stages of what looks like a massive salary hike for the entirety of NHL players, but it's pretty rough and for as little talking as our front office does, it feels like sometimes they talk too much.

I had a good laugh when Shanahan was asking players to play ball/nice with the cap like he and others did in Detroit... completely "misremembering" that the Detroit years happened pre NHL Salary Cap lol.

Add in Dubas who likes to hear himself talk, and acts like he's the smartest guy in the room... how could this not work for years to come ?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Aho has 62 points in 55 games and Mitch has 66 in 54. Aho is the Canes #1C. Marner should slot closer to Aho than Matthews. I would wait until Aho signs before I sign Marner. If Marner then insists on Matthews money I tell his agent to go about the league and bring me back your best offersheet. I let him walk if compensation is 4 #1s and match otherwise.

I get it but why would Dubas play hardball now when he hasn't before?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I get it but why would Dubas play hardball now when he hasn't before?

Yea he never has played hardball. He's never set a record for holding out on RFA negotations until his player calls him 45mins before the deadline.

 

[RLF]

I'm just trying to figure out what would actually be good value for some. Personally I think Tavares is overpaid, maybe not today for some, but in 2-3 years when he slows down big time (not the greatest skater to begin with) that deal is going to look horrendous. Matthews I would have put at around $10.034/10.534 million AAV, but the second Tavares got $11 million AAV, I knew Matthews wouldn't except less. Marner probably could have been had for $9 million, and now I doubt he get under $10 million... Why should Marner be the only one who "sacrifices" ?

Tavares was all UFA years. You will pay more for that.

Considering when contracts were signed, will be signed. I will be off for some, but I think majority could handle the below. Just my take on things.

I would think Willy (considering he was also missing part of the season) 6X$6.25-$6.5
Matthews 5X$10 or 8X$12
Marner 7/8X$9-$9.5(for instance)

 

[gamer1035]

Yea he never has played hardball. He's never set a record for holding out on RFA negotations until his player calls him 45mins before the deadline.

He did that and still overpaid Nylander on non-max term.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

I'm just trying to figure out what would actually be good value for some. Personally I think Tavares is overpaid, maybe not today for some, but in 2-3 years when he slows down big time (not the greatest skater to begin with) that deal is going to look horrendous. Matthews I would have put at around $10.034/10.534 million AAV, but the second Tavares got $11 million AAV, I knew Matthews wouldn't except less. Marner probably could have been had for $9 million, and now I doubt he get under $10 million... Why should Marner be the only one who "sacrifices" ?

Tavares at 11 is fine with me. It's a UFA price and he's earned it. Im sure he'll be fine in his later stages too, it's not like he's relied on speed anyways.
Nylander I would be fine with 7 million but for 8 years. 6 years should have been $5.5m-6m imo
Matthews id be fine with 12.5 million for 8 years, it's still a slight overpayment but it's much better then his current contract.
Marner, who knows. Im not expecting a win for Dubas. I just hope there's enough scraps for Kap and AJ for a long contract.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Marner is the last guy who is going to sacrifice. Trust me on that one. If Leafs continue to decide to play hardball with him and not give him the extra mil give away he will sit. Maybe someone will offer sheet maybe not. Either way he sits.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

naw , Dumbass actually believed he talked JT into coming here and thought he could talk the kids into taking discounts to balance out making JT the 2nd highest cap hit in the NHL

he came up with his "we vs me" media campaign while low balling the kids behind the scene , it back fired and he's made himself the biggest joke in the league with only his fan club left to defend his moves

Sure looks like it's gonna be Me-lander, Me-tthews, and Me-rner ( alt I-Mitch) doesn't it? The three amegos.

 

[Dale Gribble]

Tavares was all UFA years. You will pay more for that.

Considering when contracts were signed, will be signed. I will be off for some, but I think majority could handle the below. Just my take on things.

I would think Willy (considering he was also missing part of the season) 6X$6.25-$6.5
Matthews 5X$10 or 8X$12
Marner 7/8X$9-$9.5(for instance)

All one has to do is look at Chicago with Toews and Kane, and Anaheim with Getzlaf and Perry. Paying $10+ million for players in there late 20's doesn't work out long term for the team. Odds are that by year 3 or 4, the Tavares deal will end up the same. The "Prime" range in the NHL now is 25- 30, after that it goes downhill. Heck even Crosby is starting to slow down - the NHL is a young man's game.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

The reason was hinted by both players during the process.

Starting family
Wives from Toronto and Tampa
Family of wives in Toronto and Tampa.

Thats ultimately the reason.

Fact- Wives Matter.

 

[RLF]

All one has to do is look at Chicago with Toews and Kane, and Anaheim with Getzlaf and Perry. Paying $10+ million for players in there late 20's doesn't work out long term for the team. Odds are that by year 3 or 4, the Tavares deal will end up the same. The "Prime" range in the NHL now is 25- 30, after that it goes downhill. Heck even Crosby is starting to slow down - the NHL is a young man's game.

Yes, it is trending younger, Tavares just turned 28. 60pts in 55 games -22nd overall

Kane age 30-81pts in 55games.2nd overall
Toews 30-56 in 56. 28th overall
Crosby 31-62 in 52. 18th overall
Malkin 32-55 in 50. 32 overall
Ovetchkin 33-61 in 54-19 overall

I'm not too worried about Tavares.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

More angst in this thread than Hamlet.

To pay, or not to pay. That is the question.

 

[Dale Gribble]

Yes, it is trending younger, Tavares just turned 28. 60pts in 55 games -22nd overall

Kane age 30-81pts in 55games.2nd overall
Toews 30-56 in 56. 28th overall
Crosby 31-62 in 52. 18th overall
Malkin 32-55 in 50. 32 overall
Ovetchkin 33-61 in 54-19 overall

I'm not too worried about Tavares.

LOL, using Kane was a bad example. As for the rest though... the younger guys are taking over for them.

 

[hotpaws]

Sure looks like it's gonna be Me-lander, Me-tthews, and Me-rner ( alt I-Mitch) doesn't it? The three amegos.

Don't forget Me-avaras who mgmt desperately tried to spin as a sub comparable deal to try to get the kids to take discounts , too bad the kids didn't believe him being the 2nd highest cap hit player in the league was a sweet heart deal for the team .

 

[57 Years No Cup]

.5 too high for Willy, 1-1.4 to high for Matthews.
1.5-1.9 total overpayment, on two top liners (one who is top 5ish by position)

Looking through the lineup is see a lot of places where 1.5-1.9 million was spent less efficiently.

Like I said. By no means a win, and that sucks. But also nowhere near the market re-defining hugely anomalous loss people are spouting

And now Marner will get 1- 1.5 mil extra which equals 3- 3.5 million = Johnsson or Kappy.

 

[Dale Gribble]

Don't forget Me-avaras who mgmt desperately tried to spin as a sub comparable deal to try to get the kids to take discounts , too bad the kids didn't believe him being the 2nd highest cap hit player in the league was a sweet heart deal for the team .

LOL, yet another hilarious thing during the Shanahan and Dubas era, not only did they spin, but a lot of media and fans bought that Tavares took a "discount" - $31.8 million in less than 14 months isn't much of a discount.

 

[Dale Gribble]

And now Marner will get 1- 1.5 mil extra which equals 3- 3.5 million = Johnsson or Kappy.

Dubas will just add another million dollars to everyone's contracts - it's the Dubas way...

 

[mikeo1]

Matthews and Nylander could make Dubas look good if they decided to show up and play, but alas they're too busy day dreaming about the expensive cars they might be able to buy with their new found millions.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Yea he never has played hardball. He's never set a record for holding out on RFA negotations until his player calls him 45mins before the deadline.

Yet he caved at the end.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Fact- Wives Matter.

There could not be more of a truism then that one. And all of us know it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is probably still single. Guys generally don't want to be sleeping in a guest bedroom or worse yet the coach. And they don't want to hear every day it is freakin cold here in Toronto. I couldn't even imagine Stammers wife and mom here for more than a weekend. F*ck they were chewing him up at the fathers day game at ACC and that was before they were even married. I hope we have heated seats in the limo ride to Niagara. And where da hell do we pick up this damn limo anyways. Text Stammer. Why da hell has he not got back to you. You have not trained him yet. OMG it was ridiculous. This was in 1st period alone.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Marner is the last guy who is going to sacrifice. Trust me on that one. If Leafs continue to decide to play hardball with him and not give him the extra mil give away he will sit. Maybe someone will offer sheet maybe not. Either way he sits.

Oh I agree. But what does "the extra mil" bring the expected AAV to? 10? 11? 12?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Don't forget Me-avaras who mgmt desperately tried to spin as a sub comparable deal to try to get the kids to take discounts , too bad the kids didn't believe him being the 2nd highest cap hit player in the league was a sweet heart deal for the team .

Me-vares fits better in your scenario. I just don't agree he's overpaid.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Oh I agree. But what does "the extra mil" bring the expected AAV to? 10? 11? 12?

I thought it was 10M which is what Paul told everyone he wanted. But now that Matty got 11.6M man it could be another mil more. I just don't know.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

LOL, yet another hilarious thing during the Shanahan and Dubas era, not only did they spin, but a lot of media and fans bought that Tavares took a "discount" - $31.8 million in less than 14 months isn't much of a discount.

You know what though Rags....can I call you Rags? I couldn't care less what these players make. I only care what happens with the cap.

No cap, no problem with any of this. I'm all in. MLSE has the money. Buy me a team. I think 99% of fans would feel the same.

 

[Al14]

Matthews and Nylander could make Dubas look good if they decided to show up and play, but alas they're too busy day dreaming about the expensive cars they might be able to buy with their new found millions.

Exactly!