Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations? Deux

[Arizonan God]

Yes. Much more than I would ever trust Lou.

It's simple; you pay your best players what they are worth. Because they are the ones that can't be replaced. Others can.

 

[The Podium]

Nylander is living up to his 7 mill over the last 10 games.

 

[The Podium]

TBH I don't trust Dubas with the cap. IMO he overpaid Tavares, Nylander, and Matthews. A lot of people are talking about 5-6 year run, but I could see if being only a 2-3 year run - a lot of money tied up in 4 players.

Only the Matthews deal is questionable, and the problem there isn’t that he was overpaid, more so that the Leafs gave Matthews favourable term and dollars. Also within that 5 year span, the Seattle expansion and new US TV deal can raise the cap ~15 mill, perhaps more.

Now add to the fact that Marleau and Horton deals will expire, the Kessel retention, etc. The Leafs will have nearly 20 mill in cap space before the end of the current Matthews deal. After year 5 when Matthews is set to be a UFA, Nylanders deal also expires so if Matthews demands more at that point they will have the means to pay him.

 

[Bluelines]

Only the Matthews deal is questionable, and the problem there isn’t that he was overpaid, more so that the Leafs gave Matthews favourable term and dollars. Also within that 5 year span, the Seattle expansion and new US TV deal can raise the cap ~15 mill, perhaps more.

Now add to the fact that Marleau and Horton deals will expire, the Kessel retention, etc. The Leafs will have nearly 20 mill in cap space before the end of the current Matthews deal. After year 5 when Matthews is set to be a UFA, Nylanders deal also expires so if Matthews demands more at that point they will have the means to pay him.

You wont get that much of a bump but the premise of the point is valid, we are about to see an unprecedented growth in the cap ceiling. The belly aching about Matthew's and Marner's contract is really much ado about nothing.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Only the Matthews deal is questionable, and the problem there isn’t that he was overpaid, more so that the Leafs gave Matthews favourable term and dollars

which is overpaid. unless you think he's leaving after the contract.

he was overpaid for the short deal.

 

[Al14]

I'm not inviting Dubas to hand our candy on Halloween day anytime soon! He'll bankrupt me with the amount of candy he shares with every kid that has a good costume!

 

[rumman]

I'm not inviting Dubas to hand our candy on Halloween day anytime soon! He'll bankrupt me with the amount of candy he shares with every kid that has a good costume!

yup, your house would definitely get egged for running out of candy before the street lights came on.

 

[pucksakes666]

He made a few questionable signings but dubas is a lot better with the cap than dave nonnis, I remember when they were maxed out after he got Robidas.

 

[Dale Gribble]

He made a few questionable signings but dubas is a lot better with the cap than dave nonnis, I remember when they were maxed out after he got Robidas.

That's like the Sens COO Nicolas Ruszkowski saying that the Sens with Melnyk as owner win 10% more than they did pre Melnyk.

Nonis was horrible I think we all know that, but Dubas is not off to a great start. I think a lot of people are so enamored with the Tavares signing, because it's a homegrown player finally coming home, but I think that deal and a couple of others as of late are going to kick some people in the teeth within the next few years.

 

[GoonieFace]

Anyone that has issues with the Matthews contract, please explain:

What you would have done differently, and how would you have gotten him for cheaper over a longer term?

Do you think the negotiations went like this?

Matthews: "Hey Dubie, give me $12/yr over 8 years.
Dubas: "Auston, you nuts, I will give you $11.6/yr over 5 years
Matthews: "Ahhhhhhhhh....OK thanks, done deal"

I'm just not sure what people are thinking. Do people honestly believe a better deal was on the table for the Leafs and Dubas just decided to go with a worse one?

Mind boggling

 

[thewave]

Anyone that has issues with the Matthews contract, please explain:

What you would have done differently, and how would you have gotten him for cheaper over a longer term?

Do you think the negotiations went like this?

Matthews: "Hey Dubie, give me $12/yr over 8 years.
Dubas: "Auston, you nuts, I will give you $11.6/yr over 5 years
Matthews: "Ahhhhhhhhh....OK thanks, done deal"

I'm just not sure what people are thinking. Do people honestly believe a better deal was on the table for the Leafs and Dubas just decided to go with a worse one?

Mind boggling

He accepted McDavid as his comparable. He is not. Matthews has been trending down for weeks and instead of seeing what the deal was, he rushed in and paid above full price.

 

[ToneDog]

That's like the Sens COO Nicolas Ruszkowski saying that the Sens with Melnyk as owner win 10% more than they did pre Melnyk.

Nonis was horrible I think we all know that, but Dubas is not off to a great start. I think a lot of people are so enamored with the Tavares signing, because it's a homegrown player finally coming home, but I think that deal and a couple of others as of late are going to kick some people in the teeth within the next few years.

Toronto may no longer be the Valhalla it was looking to be for fans but it sure is for the players who need to win a playoff round to make these contract talks go away

 

[ToneDog]

He accepted McDavid as his comparable. He is not. Matthews has been trending down for weeks and instead of seeing what the deal was, he rushed in and paid above full price.

McDavid has one gear and he stays in that gear most nights. Right now Matthews has low and high gears but is stuck in low lately. We need him in high gear in the playoffs.

 

[GoonieFace]

He accepted McDavid as his comparable. He is not. Matthews has been trending down for weeks and instead of seeing what the deal was, he rushed in and paid above full price.

So you base contract negotiations on a two week downward trend?

Like it or not, Matthews is the face of the franchise and is compensated based on that, and what they hope he does over the next 5 years. There really is no wiggle room when you are dealing with your star players, they hold all the cards.

 

[hotpaws]

He accepted McDavid as his comparable. He is not. Matthews has been trending down for weeks and instead of seeing what the deal was, he rushed in and paid above full price.

even if he accepted McD as a comparable which he isn't how does Dumbass give him a much better deal than McD ?

AM should have gotten roughly this cap hit on a 8yr term , i have no idea how weak you have to be to give him this cap hit on a 5yr term and also a full nmc on the only ufa yr included . The team can't even start negotiations before he has total control in his final year and if they feel he'll walk then it's up to AM whether he will let them deal him and where he'll accept a trade .

Dubas must have been terrified of an offer sheet and/or another hold out after how poorly he handled the Nylander negotiation .

 

[thewave]

So you base contract negotiations on a two week downward trend?

Like it or not, Matthews is the face of the franchise and is compensated based on that, and what they hope he does over the next 5 years. There really is no wiggle room when you are dealing with your star players, they hold all the cards.

No i base it on injuries every season and long stretches of performance issues every season. I also look at the terrible PO he had vs Boston. That there already takes him out of the McDavid contract. Stamkos and Toews got 11% on 5 year deals, that would be fair for AM.

 

[thewave]

even if he accepted McD as a comparable which he isn't how does Dumbass give him a much better deal than McD ?

AM should have gotten roughly this cap hit on a 8yr term , i have no idea how weak you have to be to give him this cap hit on a 5yr term and also a full nmc on the only ufa yr included . The team can't even start negotiations before he has total control in his final year and if they feel he'll walk then it's up to AM whether he will let them deal him and where he'll accept a trade .

Dubas must have been terrified of an offer sheet and/or another hold out after how poorly he handled the Nylander negotiation .

Its embarrassingly bad. As a contract its a distraction to players working towards contracts. How does KK feel? Like he will be offered 2m a year? It cant be nice for Lilj and Sandin either. Dermott too! Oh and booing aside, Jake G doesnt even bother skating hard anymore. He checked out, no hope of staying here.

 

[hotpaws]

Its embarrassingly bad. As a contract its a distraction to players working towards contracts. How does KK feel? Like he will be offered 2m a year? It cant be nice for Lilj and Sandin either. Dermott too! Oh and booing aside, Jake G doesn't even bother skating hard anymore. He checked out, no hope of staying here.

I have a feeling the Dube will try to get a shred of credibility back by going hard on KK/AJ but that could easily backfire since a team can present an offersheet up to 4m per x 5 yrs and it'll only cost them a 2nd .

The Dube basically bs'd and self promoted his way to our GM job , unfortunately he started to believe his own bs and screwed himself . You can tell reality has sunk in by how quiet he's become lately . This is going to be a huge playoff for him , if we win at least a round or two it'll afford him a longer leash . Another first rd exist and he'll really have to have a good summer or the heat will get turned up on him next year and no amount of catchy slogans on t-shirts will appease the fans or the board .

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

I don't think Nylander is overpaid at 6.9 he is an elite winger that got off to a slow start.
John Tavares took a discount to come here so Dubas can't be blamed for a "No-Duh" signing.
Matthews deserves every penny and the style of how great RFAs get paid is changing. I would not have been down for 8x14M
Every other signing has been for depth and hat. Ennis is a steal and Moore is a great contract. Lindholm not so much but that was such a minor deal I don't hold it against him.

It hasn't been roses and dandelions but most of these deals are fair with the potential to be great.

This Marner contract is going to be horrible though.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Matthews stole Kapanen's lunch money. Greedy. Not team fair, let alone friendly. No team chemistry... Players hate management so bad you see pure ass moves like the Nylander holdout.

Something is wrong.

Young stars don't care about winning the cup.

Dubas was too kind to Sparks and gave away AAV to Matthews and Nylander. Tavares landed in his lap. Muzzin looks like a god trade. Dubas knows stats, not contract negotiations.

 

[Dale Gribble]

Toronto may no longer be the Valhalla it was looking to be for fans but it sure is for the players who need to win a playoff round to make these contract talks go away

LOL
Leafs have a good team; I just wonder if it's good enough to go deep in the playoffs for the next 5-6 years.

 

[ToneDog]

LOL
Leafs have a good team; I just wonder if it's good enough to go deep in the playoffs for the next 5-6 years.

Not yet for my liking. People keep insisting the team does not need some sandpaper but I think we need at least one more gritty player. In worst case I would like them to add McQuaid. He gives you depth and could push/replace Hainsey and Z.

 

[Menzinger]

I have a feeling the Dube will try to get a shred of credibility back by going hard on KK/AJ but that could easily backfire since a team can present an offersheet up to 4m per x 5 yrs and it'll only cost them a 2nd .

The Dube basically bs'd and self promoted his way to our GM job , unfortunately he started to believe his own bs and screwed himself . You can tell reality has sunk in by how quiet he's become lately . This is going to be a huge playoff for him , if we win at least a round or two it'll afford him a longer leash . Another first rd exist and he'll really have to have a good summer or the heat will get turned up on him next year and no amount of catchy slogans on t-shirts will appease the fans or the board .

If this roster can’t get passed the first round it’s problems will be a lot broader than just the GM

 

[Menzinger]

Basing contracts off playoffs is how you end up paying guys like Seabrook 6 million a year.

Team accomplishments shouldn’t determine the value of individual contracts

 

[RLF]

Anyone that has issues with the Matthews contract, please explain:

What you would have done differently, and how would you have gotten him for cheaper over a longer term?

Do you think the negotiations went like this?

Matthews: "Hey Dubie, give me $12/yr over 8 years.
Dubas: "Auston, you nuts, I will give you $11.6/yr over 5 years
Matthews: "Ahhhhhhhhh....OK thanks, done deal"

I'm just not sure what people are thinking. Do people honestly believe a better deal was on the table for the Leafs and Dubas just decided to go with a worse one?

Mind boggling

I don't think anyone figured it went like that. I think for some it feels like the worst case based on term. Same with Nylander. I think if Matthews wanted 8X$12M, most would be ok with that. The 5 year term seemed more like a $10-$10.5 deal as a fair deal. Especially when you consider only 1 year of UFA and a NMC clause that year. It seems when talking comparable, he got everything you would expect on a 7 year deal. He got huge bonuses paid out heavy front ended, a NMC in his final year and the shortest term you could think of if he was getting 10M+.

Add this to Nylander getting max money as well with all considered. Let's remember with Nylander you are only really getting about 5 1/2 years of service for the money when you take all into account. It does seem like Dubas is giving out max deals and hasn't won a negotiation yet. As I have said before, unless he is sure the cap is jumping drastically after next season, then it should be fine. If not, he needs to hit a homerun or two team side as well. So far, the players are winning.