OT: Do you think Blackhawks will change jersey/logo/name?

[Wally1112pac]

Not a great comparison seeing as Japan has never committed genocide against Italians

That's not the comparison I was making. I said people group X is making a fortune off of people group Y's imagery. It has nothing to do with the wrong's of the past.

And if you know your history, no people group is innocent of committing atrocities.

 

[bwanajamba]

That's not the comparison I was making. I said people group X is making a fortune off of people group Y's imagery. It has nothing to do with the wrong's of the past.

And if you know your history, no people group is innocent of committing atrocities.

It does have a lot to do with the wrongs of the past specifically because in this case group X systematically massacred group Y and destroyed their way of life. It is not a unique situation in history by any means but for group X to then profit off of group Y's culture centuries later is a clear ethical problem.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

The logo looks honorable, nothing to me looks offensive at all. It’s stunning. It’s not like the old Cleveland Indians logo, which could be construed as offensive and racist. I’m not a Native American so can’t speak for them but hearing opinions of some Native Americans combined with today’s society finding discrimination and insult in pretty much everything it’s just a small group of people who want it changed, and my guess is it’s most people who have no Native American in them.

 

[HallOfGreatness4]

The logo looks honorable, nothing to me looks offensive at all. It’s stunning. It’s not like the old Cleveland Indians logo, which could be construed as offensive and racist. I’m not a Native American so can’t speak for them but hearing opinions of some Native Americans combined with today’s society finding discrimination and insult in pretty much everything it’s just a small group of people who want it changed, and my guess is it’s most people who have no Native American in them.

It really is stunning. That’s the word I would use to describe it. Probably why Wirtz has tried to hang onto it

 

[Putt Pirate]

People sure try and find any way/opportunity to get mad it seems. Enjoy the game/team and relax. I don't get pissed the Vikings are still an NFL team. But....white and all it is OK I guess.

 

[HallOfGreatness4]

People sure try and find any way/opportunity to get mad it seems. Enjoy the game/team and relax. I don't get pissed the Vikings are still an NFL team. But....white and all it is OK I guess.

What if I feel like I can only enjoy us as the Blackhawks with chief on the front

 

[Putt Pirate]

What if I feel like I can only enjoy us as the Blackhawks with chief on the front

Your journey. But I don't like my individual needs to affect the masses. I taker care of that myself.

 

[vegarover]

I think it's inevitable that the logo will change. The Hawks are the very last pro team in the U.S. to have an "Indian head" logo. And most NCAA teams have removed them as well.

That being said, there's no reason to change the name of the team or change the design of the uniform. When the day comes I'd like to see them have some sort of classic looking letter logo like the Habs or Bruins. That way they can still say their name honors Black Hawk, instead of some generic black bird like most people suggest.

 

[HallOfGreatness4]

I think it's inevitable that the logo will change. The Hawks are the very last pro team in the U.S. to have an "Indian head" logo. And most NCAA teams have removed them as well.

That being said, there's no reason to change the name of the team or change the design of the uniform. When the day comes I'd like to see them have some sort of classic looking letter logo like the Habs or Bruins. That way they can still say their name honors Black Hawk, instead of some generic black bird like most people suggest.

What would be the event that would cause the change though? I mean it seems like the conversation has kind of gone quiet

 

[u2wojo]

Nothing would surprise me as we live in a time and age where someone can be "outraged" over literally anything and if enough of the vocal minority squeal loudly enough, people in power tend to cave and lack the backbone to standup to the noise. Compared to the Cleveland Indians (the logo was cartoonish) and Washington Redskins (where the redskin name itself had negative racist overtones), I don't see the same negativity surround the Blackhawks name or logo.

At some point the issue is money and where FSU has paid off the tribes for support, others like U of I and North Dakota chose not to pay/fight and caved to the political correctness...despite the obvious irony of the state name portion of the schools being directly derived from Dakota and Illini indian tribes.

Short answer....absolutely should not but who knows.

 

[hawksfan50]

I can only surmise why this dumb question keeps showing up by ignorant radical pc activists...IGNORANT because the tare too dumb to DISTIGUISH between honoring a Native American Chief for his bravery in defending his people's way of life ratger than bei g anything racist..If you cannot see tge difference and only jump at the Lowest common denominator of instant outrage over a misunderstood use of the name and logo brand then there is no hope for you in sich indiscromate thinking...borders g on indignant derange.ent because logic goes out tgd window to slavery to an ideology.

NOTHIBG is surface simple...the mere use of honoring native symbols just like people buy art from Native American artists whose talent they honour with such purchases is a valid use of their symbols as a brand...IF the Bkackhawks organization needs to akso pay for such usage then it cN be paid by either cash donations to tgeir causes or by promoting their causes and charities ...

Tge Bkacks I deed do various promotional eve to for Native American causes so there is NoTHING racist involved using this logo and brand if done in this proper way of helping and honoring them..

You must distinguish cas by case and understand tgd context..if it is honoring instead of hurtful to thecactual native Americans (not to the non-native s Americans who are "offerended" by anyone other than natives actualky using some reference to the natives in their brand or their purchases,then it is tge wrong people who take offense..PNLY if something is done with distaste to tge actual native AMERICANS who might be offended,then it woukd be appropriate to force a change of branding ...But if the context is appropriately used in a form of honoring,then the PC nut cssez who are nit native Americans but claim sone offenses taken on their behalf ,are actualky racist in de idibg for the native Americans what they should be offended about.
So unless the original poster us a native American who somehow us offended ,then this entire tgreD shoukd never have been started in the first place.

If the poster who started thus thread is a native american,then he ir she should explain why honoring tge memory of a trial chief and a trial history is offensive in any way.

Dumb purple co.plain about everything often not considering the context.

Obviously Washington Redskins had no good context ..so there a change made perfect sense.And Cleveland Indians had no goid context as tgeir logo was mockery of the smiling "Indian"...but tge Blackhawks have honored a tribe and their history and you can see that in thd logo of Chief Blackhawk there us a tear in his eyes...Lamenting what yge European colonization of te native lands forced cultural and residential change on them...There us no mockery...rather a testament to historical events that hopefully today are not beibg repeated..Goid relations with tge Bative Americans is the proper goal and to the extent the Blackhawks are promoting good relations with these tribes,ther is no reason to change tge name if thd teM nor the logo.

Understand tge context
..if it us for good purpose,leave it stay.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

If the Sauk don't mind I don't mind.

 

[HallOfGreatness4]

CHGO said on their podcast today they’ve had off the record convos about us tweaking or rebranding the logo. 19 minute mark of Monday mailbag pod

 

[HagelsBagels]

We as a society need to stop listening to a small group of people with loud opinions. The Indians changing their logo and the Redskins changing their name are completely different, those were offensive.

If you're changing the Blackhawks logo, you pretty much have to change the team name too. Why is one offensive and the other isn't?

 

[vegarover]

What would be the event that would cause the change though? I mean it seems like the conversation has kind of gone quiet

It definitely hasn't gone quiet on social media. And the fact that this thread was even created in the first place and has a lot of interaction points to that.

As for your question though, there probably wouldn't need to be a single event to change it. That wasn't the case for the Commanders or Guardians (at least as far as I'm aware). It just slowly simmered over time.

Now that the Hawks got Bedard and are going to be in the spotlight more, I would expect the logo talk to ramp up again.

 

[Malaka]

This says a lot about society

 

[HallOfGreatness4]

 

[piteus]

I went to University with a.bunch of Washington football fans. Some of their parents were season ticket holders. Yes, the "Redskin" name was offensive as heck ... especially if you know the history of their founder, George Preston Marshall. That person was a well known segregationist and was the last to Integrate in the NFL. In fact, there's a reason so many African American old timers in the Virginia, Maryland, DC area are Cowboys fans. The Washington football team has a bad track record.

Regardless, the "Redskins" needed to change although some fans said it was acceptable language back in the day. No joke. LOL. Surprisingly, much of the native tribes did not have a problem with the name. They were far more concerned with financial aid for their communities. As for the Washington logo, I didn't have an issue with it. I thought it was tastefully done. However, I understand why some would have an issue ... especially when RFK and FEDEX allowed fans to enter the stadium in their Native American costumes.

Washington opted for the double switch. Change name and logo.

That said, I understood why people were offended by Chief Wahoo logo: it was offensive. That's why Cleveland did the double switch.

As for the Blackhawks, we all know the history. Military name, etc. The name isn't the issue. It's the logo ... although like Washington, it's tastefully done. I doubt our Native Tribes, like DC, really care. They are far more concerned with financial/infrastructure aid for their communities. Should we change the logo? There's a good argument for it. That said, the Blackhawks are far more respectful than other teams. We don't do the lame tomahawk chant like the Chiefs, Braves, or Seminoles. Fans don't dress in Native American garb. The only Native American association is the logo and our C with 2 tomahawks. The Blackhawks are not in the same position as Clevleand and Washington. However, I don't have a problem if people want a logo change. It's fair game. However, I don't think it's absolutely necessary as long as we remain respectful and donate to native tribes (for the use of logo).

 

[piteus]

Which is ironically the vast majority of people who want it changed.

The vast majority of people lobbying to change it are "woke" white people who try to find offense in everything they can. We've been over this a million times on this board, though, I don't see the need for another thread for it. I don't see it even coming close to being changed in the next 5-7 years, and thinking that it'll be changed by the time Bedard is contending for a Cup is just silly to me.

Can we keep the "woke" out of this discussion. That has nothing to do with it. You can't have a rational discourse with that point of view ... and I'm one who is NOT offended by our logo.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Can we keep the "woke" out of this discussion. That has nothing to do with it. You can't have a rational discourse with that point of view ... and I'm one who is NOT offended by our logo.

I used the term in quotes because it's applicable. I'm as socially liberal as one can be. I can't stand these stupid ass people who have to go over the top and find offense or cancel every little thing they can. It's more harmful than it is helpful. And in most cases, it's a bunch of stupid ass white people doing it.

The vast majority of the people I've seen complain about the Blackhawks name or logo... are exactly what I said. "Woke" white people.

 

[Wally1112pac]

I grew up in Caledonia, Ontario and went to high school there. The town is right beside a Native Reservation. There was a fair amount of Natives in the school as well.

In high school (around '97 or so) the whole school got called to the cafeteria because a high ranking Native was coming to talk to the school about sports team names and symbolism.

After listening to his talk and digesting what he said, I would have to say that I agreed with his opinion and still share it to this day.

He said (I'll paraphrase) when you look at all the team names and symbolism that are associated with Native Americans they are all done from a position of strength and honor. No one is going to name their team the losers or the weaklings. No team is going to have a symbol of weakness represent them. He said when you see teams with names like Fighting Irish, Spartans, Hornets and Hawks they are supposed to strike fear into the other team. So apply that standard to names like Blackhawks, Braves, Indians, Seminoles and all the rest and you have teams honoring the Natives. He said he had no problem with any team name or imagery. Even the Redskins.

That has stuck with me for almost 30 years. I always mention that story if someone asks me about my 'Hawks hat.

 

[CallMeShaft]

I used the term in quotes because it's applicable. I'm as socially liberal as one can be. I can't stand these stupid ass people who have to go over the top and find offense or cancel every little thing they can. It's more harmful than it is helpful. And in most cases, it's a bunch of stupid ass white people doing it.

The vast majority of the people I've seen complain about the Blackhawks name or logo... are exactly what I said. "Woke" white people.

To be fair, those who are socially conservative also have a tendency to get fired up and offended over shit too, just at vastly different topics.

In regards to the Hawks logo, the controversy does stem from some on the left viewing it as insensitive. But until it's Native Americans themselves that are up in arms over it, might as well leave it as is.

When we start seeing tribes asking for the logo to be changed, then we can start looking at replacements.

 

[LavalPhantom]

I grew up in Caledonia, Ontario and went to high school there. The town is right beside a Native Reservation. There was a fair amount of Natives in the school as well.

In high school (around '97 or so) the whole school got called to the cafeteria because a high ranking Native was coming to talk to the school about sports team names and symbolism.

After listening to his talk and digesting what he said, I would have to say that I agreed with his opinion and still share it to this day.

He said (I'll paraphrase) when you look at all the team names and symbolism that are associated with Native Americans they are all done from a position of strength and honor. No one is going to name their team the losers or the weaklings. No team is going to have a symbol of weakness represent them. He said when you see teams with names like Fighting Irish, Spartans, Hornets and Hawks they are supposed to strike fear into the other team. So apply that standard to names like Blackhawks, Braves, Indians, Seminoles and all the rest and you have teams honoring the Natives. He said he had no problem with any team name or imagery. Even the Redskins.

That has stuck with me for almost 30 years. I always mention that story if someone asks me about my 'Hawks hat.

Cool story bro, but the white girl with blue hair and a nose ring over there said it’s offensive. When will you start quoting her instead?

 

[vandymeer13]

No. I've even heard discussion of the redskins name coming back. You don't name a team after something you despise or try to belittle. The redskins were named after Lone Star Dietz who was hc and Indian along with four other players. Same with Cleveland if people knew how the teams originated, everyone was just trying to be as PC as possible and virtue signal. Now more people are pushing back on the wokeness agenda and worrying about issues that actually matter.

 

[CallMeShaft]

No. I've even heard discussion of the redskins name coming back. You don't name a team after something you despise or try to belittle. The redskins were named after Lone Star Dietz who was hc and Indian along with four other players. Same with Cleveland if people knew how the teams originated, everyone was just trying to be as PC as possible and virtue signal. Now more people are pushing back on the wokeness agenda and worrying about issues that actually matter.

Wokeness agenda?

Also, please don't compare us to the Redskins and Indians. Are you trying to convince us to change?!?