Dion Phaneuf This Season

[Faltorvo]

I have never been a fan of Dion (unless you count his break through years when every one loved him) but I have a good feeling about him this year and moving forward.

My main problem with him has always been his lack of hockey smarts. Can Babcock make him smarter? No, but he can implement a system that will have the forwards help the defenders (the way hockey is meant to be played) and not only when we dont have the puck but also give him (and the other defenders as well of course) more options when we do have the puck.

I have a sneaky feeling we who wanted Dion out will have to eat some crow when this or next season is up. And I am looking forward to it.

I'm banging my head on the table so hard it hurts jonny.

don't you see the hilarity in the bolded comment?

we can't trade dion right now because no other team wants him and his unearned 7 million dollar cap hit, no one.

the only way we manage to trade dion is IF he can raise the bar and maybe be seen as 6 million cap worthy and of that I even have massive grave doubts about.

the only way dion gets out is if he plays better, better to the point where a 6 million dollar cap hit does not look crippling.

so there comes the double edged sword, right

dion plays better and it will be for some fans "oh oh gotta keep em now, look at em"

where the smarter fans will actually realise, "oh oh, we can now finally trade him, someone might actually want him"

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Giordano 6.75M
Boychuck 6M
Green 6M
Marc Staal 5.70M
Seabrook (UFA 2016 summer)stands to get a raise from 5.80M

All D either 30 or 30+ or pushing 30.

Dion is maybe only .5M overpaid given the comparables. If he excels under Babcock, and he Babcock is confident he will. WHy trade him and take back .5M? We already are taking back 1.2 for Kessel.

Again it makes little sense. Not unless someone can convince me why those other players on the list are washed up.

And given my previous examples of players ages of Chara, Neidermayer, and Pronger. The latter 2 10+ years older than Getzlaf and Perry when Anaheim won the cup.

1-Not all core players have to be 22.
2-30+ year old D men are not washed up.

 

[Menzinger]

Nobody is denying that Pronger-Neidermayer weren't great players at 30+ but the problem is that Dion is simply not on their skill level - not even close - those were two of the best defenders to ever play the game. Further, they are still just the exception to the norm when it comes to players declining as they age. It's not controversial to say most player at 35 aren't as good as they were at 25.

Gio, Staal, Seabrook also all play on much better teams than the Leafs (thus management can actually get good use out of their play). Leafs will be lousy for the next year or two as well, meaning we're just wasting what's left of Dion's prime - same argument was made in favour of the the Kessel trade. Why keep an expensive veteran when you don't need to?

Let Dion find his game again under a good coach with Babcock and flip him for some assets that will actually help the team become a contender.

 

[Daisy Jane]

1-Not all core players have to be 22.
2-30+ year old D men are not washed up.

1: no one in this thread said that the core players have to be 22. at all.

2: no one said in this thread that 30+ defensemen were washed up.

so continue to stress these two points when no one ever discounted that makes no sense.

Dion however is a decent player. if Dion becomes a better player, I feel that we should maximize his value and trade him because I feel we can get a better player than Dion. Dion doesn't skate very well, Dion doesn't think very well, I don't think he fits here as captain at all (I don't think it benefits him or his game at all here). I think when things get bad his personal game implodes (it doesn't help that his support system sucks bananas).

Babcock can help with certain aspects - his system, take more of the heat. all of that. but he can't make Dion think smarter/faster/better. He can't make Dion skate faster. He can't remove a lot of the pressure with what it takes to be captain here. (well maybe. we'll see).

I feel if Dion gets better - he's not getting better based off his indvidual play - he 's getting better based on the system that is here. I would think what would be best for the organization is to capitalize on that fact and remove his contract and get better options.

I would love for Dion to prove me wrong and that that he would have awesome - I don't see it. Again. when most teams start over. predominately most people get traded. Tampa: Stamkos and Hedman are the only ones left from the team five years ago. Buffalo: I can't even tell you who was on that team that made the eastern conference finals now (I think Tyler Myers was the last remaining link to that old regime, and he got moved last season).

So it stands to reason when it is all said and done. I don't think Dion is going to be the soul (or co) survivor in all of this.

 

[diceman934]

1: no one in this thread said that the core players have to be 22. at all.

2: no one said in this thread that 30+ defensemen were washed up.

so continue to stress these two points when no one ever discounted that makes no sense.

Dion however is a decent player. if Dion becomes a better player, I feel that we should maximize his value and trade him because I feel we can get a better player than Dion. Dion doesn't skate very well, Dion doesn't think very well, I don't think he fits here as captain at all (I don't think it benefits him or his game at all here). I think when things get bad his personal game implodes (it doesn't help that his support system sucks bananas).

Babcock can help with certain aspects - his system, take more of the heat. all of that. but he can't make Dion think smarter/faster/better. He can't make Dion skate faster. He can't remove a lot of the pressure with what it takes to be captain here. (well maybe. we'll see).

I feel if Dion gets better - he's not getting better based off his indvidual play - he 's getting better based on the system that is here. I would think what would be best for the organization is to capitalize on that fact and remove his contract and get better options.

I would love for Dion to prove me wrong and that that he would have awesome - I don't see it. Again. when most teams start over. predominately most people get traded. Tampa: Stamkos and Hedman are the only ones left from the team five years ago. Buffalo: I can't even tell you who was on that team that made the eastern conference finals now (I think Tyler Myers was the last remaining link to that old regime, and he got moved last season).

So it stands to reason when it is all said and done. I don't think Dion is going to be the soul (or co) survivor in all of this.

Watching Dion....Babcock would have to be able to improve not only Dion's skating and his hockey I Q but also his bravery....he is second to almost all pucks or he ignores them and lets his partner take the checks. When he is hit with a clean hit he responds with a two hander.

I do not see Babcock coming in and having a major impact on Dion's game. I can see a better structure being implemented over all, but again that will aid the players with the skill set to implement the structure.

I can see Dion having a better season points wise, but not defensively. He just does not think the game well enough and lacks the characteristics of a player that can over come his weaknesses.

Do not be drawn into an age debate that has nothing to do with Dion....if we had a 30 year old Pronger as our captain we would not be in a hurry to move him. The whole premise of this thread is based on a opinion that is not supported by any fact.

We shopped Dion all around the League and we did not get any suitable offers. That is a fact.

 

[Pookie]

Dion is the one guy from this core that I am pulling for. Expectations are high with him and he may never play up to the contract he was offered…. but he's the only guy that I can point to in the dumpster fire that was last season and say that he tried. Well, him, Rielly, Carrick and Sill.

Older defensemen are less of a concern than older forwards. Dion as a #3-4-5 in 5 years could still be a very useful part of the eventual resurgence.

 

[Parkdale]

He doesn't have it anymore. The Dion Phaneuf of Calgary who was one of the fastest skaters and had one of the hardest shots ever is actually nowhere to be found. He hasn't had it at all since coming to Toronto.

I don't recall Phaneuf was ever a great skater, but will take your word for it as I didn't follow his Calgary days. Given where he is now though, the degradation is staggering. His shot is still pretty hard but inaccurate or unpredictable. I think he is best when playing a simple game at a high compete level.

 

[moon111]

He won't have Kessel on the ice with him. That in itself will make life easier for him.

 

[Menzinger]

Dion is the one guy from this core that I am pulling for. Expectations are high with him and he may never play up to the contract he was offered…. but he's the only guy that I can point to in the dumpster fire that was last season and say that he tried. Well, him, Rielly, Carrick and Sill.

Older defensemen are less of a concern than older forwards. Dion as a #3-4-5 in 5 years could still be a very useful part of the eventual resurgence.

But if he declines down to a #4-5 player the Leafs still have to pay him 7 million a season.

I'd personally feel safer moving him off the team this year or next. We know the current management team has already tried to trade him - I'm not so sure how much longer he'll be with the team.

 

[Pookie]

But if he declines down to a #4-5 player the Leafs still have to pay him 7 million a season.

I'd personally feel safer moving him off the team this year or next. We know the current management team has already tried to trade him - I'm not so sure how much longer he'll be with the team.

Unless the cap comes down… and it might… I wouldn't worry about the cap charge.

Anyways, you may be right and they move him. Just saying that I am pulling for him. He takes a lot of flack from supposedly intelligent hockey fans. Eg, he gets criticized for his "poor" passing in his own zone but the geniuses don't realize that all 3 forwards have left the zone the moment he gets the puck… leaving a very small target and even fewer options.

 

[dballislife2]

dont be too stupid guys come on, yes we suck as a team and that sucks...dion is being paid a lot yes, but this is a great D in hockey, whos just under the elite dmen group in nhl...and u win with a great defensive core

we dont have a great number 1 D, or a great number 3 or 4 D, on a contending team...i do have faith that rielly and gardiner will eventually get there and fill one of those slots...so we cant afford to just lose a number 2, Ds are super super hard to find, thats why ours have always sucked

 

[The Winter Soldier]

1: no one in this thread said that the core players have to be 22. at all.

2: no one said in this thread that 30+ defensemen were washed up.

so continue to stress these two points when no one ever discounted that makes no sense.

That's fine and all. But it is a complete contradiction to your statement here.

Daisy Jane;106579877]that's good. I hope he does.
then we can trade him

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106579877&postcount=8

We already know no one referenced HOF Dman but yourself. We already know I have posted many non HOF comparables in this thread. IE. Seabrook, Giordano, Boychuck ect…

So pardon me if I am a little confused in your position. All I know is you want to deal Dion regardless of what you claim your beliefs are. So might as well just say it.

It doesn't matter to you if 30 year old defencemen have proven to be very useful, they can be core players, Dion can bounce back to be the best we have seen him under Babcock, that you do not believe a team has to all be 22 to succeed, that he compares favourably to the caphits I posted.

There is nothing that Dion can do that will convince you that we should keep him. To me this is just illogical.

 

[Purity*]

That's fine and all. But it is a complete contradiction to your statement here.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106579877&postcount=8

We already know no one referenced HOF Dman but yourself. We already know I have posted many non HOF comparables in this thread. IE. Seabrook, Giordano, Boychuck ect…

So pardon me if I am a little confused in your position. All I know is you want to deal Dion regardless of what you claim your beliefs are. So might as well just say it.

It doesn't matter to you if 30 year old defencemen have proven to be very useful, they can be core players, Dion can bounce back to be the best we have seen him under Babcock, that you do not believe a team has to all be 22 to succeed, that he compares favourably to the caphits I posted.

There is nothing that Dion can do that will convince you that we should keep him. To me this is just illogical.

Excuse me????

I agree with you. Chara was 29 when he signed with Boston. He was 34 when the Bruins won the cup.

Neidermayer was 33 when he signed with Anaheim and was 34 when they won the cup.

Heck, Lidstrom was 38 when he won his last cup.

Now that's pure hypocrisy if I've ever seen it.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Excuse me????



Now that's pure hypocrisy if I've ever seen it.

They were referenced for only their ages. As noted in this post you replied to. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106592593&postcount=64

Funny I have to explain this twice to only you. Also, there were many other non HOF D men mentioned in this thread that you just conveniently missed.

 

[Purity*]

They were referenced for only their ages. As noted in this post you replied to. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106592593&postcount=64

Funny I have to explain this twice to only you. Also, there were many other non HOF D men mentioned in this thread that you just conveniently missed.

Why in god's name are you accusing Daisy of "being the only one" who referenced HOF D-men when it was clearly you who brought them up in the first place WITHOUT giving your little disclaimer that "they were only referenced for their ages?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Why in god's name are you accusing Daisy of "being the only one" who referenced HOF D-men when it was clearly you who brought them up in the first place WITHOUT giving your little disclaimer that "they were only referenced for their ages?

Maybe it would be helpful to let her and I discuss things without someone trying to add to discussions by fuelling it with inaccuracies. We already cleared that up BTW. You just wanted to jump in I think.

As for both these statements. Where was there any mention or inference of HOF credentials by me. BTW Seabrook is not in the HOF. I even clariifed this but you keep insisting there was. Why?

The only thing I see here are players ages.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106588017&postcount=37

And salaries.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106597775&postcount=77

 

[Purity*]

Maybe it would be helpful to let her and I discuss things without someone trying to add to discussions by fuelling it with inaccuracies. We already cleared that up BTW. You just wanted to jump in I think.

LOL you trying to play moderator now? Do I have to ask your permission before replying to your posts?

As for both these statements. Where was there any mention or inference of HOF credentials by me. BTW Seabrook is not in the HOF. I even clariifed this but you keep insisting there was. Why?

Looks to me like you got called out on them being bad comparisons and then later on covered yourself by giving more reasonable comparisons that still barely make sense (Seabrook, Giordano, Marc Staal etc... do not have comparable cap-hits to Phaneuf).

The only thing I see here are players ages.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106588017&postcount=37

And salaries.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106597775&postcount=77

I find your bit on Dion being only .5 overpaid to be inaccurate. He played like a 4M$ guy last season. He's got a hell of a lot to improve upon before he can live up to only being .5 overpaid. Mark Giordano was a Norris-lock before injury last season which is why he got his nice pay-day. So yeah, bad comparison.

But as always, feel free to send me a PM any time.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

LOL you trying to play moderator now?



Looks to me like you got called out on them being bad comparisons and then later on covered yourself by giving more reasonable comparisons that still barely make sense (Seabrook, Giordano, Marc Staal etc... do not have comparable cap-hits to Phaneuf).

The only thing I see here are players ages.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106588017&postcount=37

And salaries.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106597775&postcount=77

[/QUOTE]

No, are you?

If you want to create a thread that Dion belongs in the HOF or not? Be my guest. No one was comparing him to HOF players or that he is even remotely HOF worthy.

The point was and still is. 30 years old is not too old to be a core D man. There are plenty of players I have cited that prove this. And Babcock is confident Dion will have his best year in a long time as outlined in the OP.

And

 

[Purity*]

No, are you?

If you want to create a thread that Dion belongs in the HOF or not? Be my guest. No one was comparing him to HOF players or that he is even remotely HOF worthy.

The point was and still is. 30 years old is not too old to be a core D man. And there are plenty of players I have cited that prove this.

It lacks context tme. 30 years old too old to be a core d-man? No.

A D-man of Dion's caliber being paid 7M at 30 years old too old to be a core D-man? Yeah, I think so. Just my opinion though. You gotta remember, the last 2 seasons he's showed clear signs of decline so he's got a lot of backtracking to do under Babcock before he can get up to speed to live up to that pricetag.


Feel free to send me a PM anytime.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It lacks context tme. 30 years old too old to be a core d-man? No.

A D-man of Dion's caliber being paid 7M at 30 years old too old to be a core D-man? Yeah, I think so. Just my opinion though. .


Feel free to send me a PM anytime.

Why? Have you changed your mind and decided to courage up on Holland/Kadri bet now?

If you have followed the thread, The point was always about you do not need to ice all 22 year olds to succeed(which Cor posted and I agreed) where it was always about Dion and his age being too old for this core.

Again, incase you missed it. How old were Niedermayer and Pronger when Anaheim won the cup? How old were Getzlaf and Perry. 10+ years younger than 2 core D men?

 

[Daisy Jane]

That's fine and all. But it is a complete contradiction to your statement here.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106579877&postcount=8

We already know no one referenced HOF Dman but yourself. We already know I have posted many non HOF comparables in this thread. IE. Seabrook, Giordano, Boychuck ect…

So pardon me if I am a little confused in your position. All I know is you want to deal Dion regardless of what you claim your beliefs are. So might as well just say it.

It doesn't matter to you if 30 year old defencemen have proven to be very useful, they can be core players, Dion can bounce back to be the best we have seen him under Babcock, that you do not believe a team has to all be 22 to succeed, that he compares favourably to the caphits I posted.

There is nothing that Dion can do that will convince you that we should keep him. To me this is just illogical.

I have. several time. I'd trade Dion in a New York Minute. Didn't hide it, didn't stutter it, so I don't know why you're telling me to just "say it." I have been. Here i'll say it again: If Dion Phaneuf has a really great year - I think that Lou Lamoriello should trade him. There. all clear.

I did not say that the core has to be 22 years or younger.
me wanting to trade Dion Phaneuf has nothing to do with the age being 22 years old or younger. is that clear enough for you now?

I have wanted for three + years for the Leafs to get quality older players to help support the youth of this core. I have constantly stated this so please assume or just tell me what "does? or "doesn't" matter. I' never once stated that A: older players couldn't be core players or that B: they can't be useful.

What I am saying - so you can kindly stop putting words in my mouth - is that I do not think Dion Phaneuf is of the quality of the players you are naming. I do not think he is better than Seabrook. I do not think he's better than Gio. I do not believe that even at his best he'll be as impactful as those two for as long as they have.

Why?

Because I feel Dion Phaneuf thinks slowly. I do not believe Babcock can help with that.

I think Dion Phaneuf skates slowly. I don't see how after 3+ years with Barb here how that is going to improve.

I don't think being captain benefits Dion Phaneuf. it's not helping him. it's not helping his game. Not liking some of the aspects about his decision, but out of everything kinda minute on the grand scheme of things.

So. Unlike other players, I do not believe Dion Phaneuf will be the kind of player that gets better with age. Of course. my opinion. If Lamoriello doesn't trade him and he proves me wrong. great. wonderful. I'm wrong. I will take my crow with glee. though again. I think Babcock can hide his deficiencies for a while but I think it would better the team in the long run to capitalize on the bestest that Dion can be and supplement elsewhere (and one more time just so we're clear: including trying to find quality players over the age of 30 because I do feel it could benefit the team).


so I am sorry if you find it it's illogical to keep a Dion Phaneuf past 30 who already skates slow, and thinks slow and not capitalize on their maximum asset getting potential.

 

[Daisy Jane]

It lacks context tme. 30 years old too old to be a core d-man? No.

A D-man of Dion's caliber being paid 7M at 30 years old too old to be a core D-man? Yeah, I think so. Just my opinion though. You gotta remember, the last 2 seasons he's showed clear signs of decline so he's got a lot of backtracking to do under Babcock before he can get up to speed to live up to that pricetag.


Feel free to send me a PM anytime.

it's not even that.

when the team was in the crapper, Dion's play basically imploded. he was awful. And again yes. context. forwards weren't helping minimize his mistakes, he didn't always have the best of partners. but Dions own play was not that good. At all.

 

[Purity*]

Why? Have you changed your mind and decided to courage up on Holland/Kadri bet now?

If you have followed the thread, The point was always about you do not need to ice all 22 year olds to succeed(which Cor posted and I agreed) where it was always about Dion and his age being too old for this core.

Again, incase you missed it. How old were Niedermayer and Pronger when Anaheim won the cup? How old were Getzlaf and Perry. 10+ years younger than 2 core D men?

Why? Have you changed your mind and decided to courage up on Holland/Kadri bet now? (It was me who bet you LMFAO)

I know the point of the thread. Ofc you don't need all 22 year olds to win a cup. BUT, understand this; Dion being paid 7M for the caliber of defensemen is a detriment to any team wanting to contend for a cup. You're trying to argue a hypothetical where Dion improves under Babock enough to live up to his pricetag. Me and several other posters just don't see that happening, hence why we want to trade him the first offer we get (not to mention this guy utterly crumbles under pressure, you don't want that do you?).

And again, you just CAN'T use those examples. HOF D-men with incredible hockey IQ's who aged like wine thanks to their smarts (Niedermayer anyway, not sure if you brought up Pronger before). Dion aint' anywhere close to those guys.

Surely you can see where we're coming from.

it's not even that.

when the team was in the crapper, Dion's play basically imploded. he was awful. And again yes. context. forwards weren't helping minimize his mistakes, he didn't always have the best of partners. but Dions own play was not that good. At all.

More than once as well. 13'14 season Dion played his worst hockey during those last 14 games. And let's not forget about game 7 vs Boston in the last 12 minutes where he looked utterly terrified of Boston when we needed him to come through the most. I can't think of any GM in their right mind who would want that on their cup-contending team.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I have. several time. I'd trade Dion in a New York Minute. Didn't hide it, didn't stutter it, so I don't know why you're telling me to just "say it." I have been. Here i'll say it again: If Dion Phaneuf has a really great year - I think that Lou Lamoriello should trade him. There. all clear.

I did not say that the core has to be 22 years or younger.
me wanting to trade Dion Phaneuf has nothing to do with the age being 22 years old or younger. is that clear enough for you now?

I have wanted for three + years for the Leafs to get quality older players to help support the youth of this core. I have constantly stated this so please assume or just tell me what "does? or "doesn't" matter. I' never once stated that A: older players couldn't be core players or that B: they can't be useful.

What I am saying - so you can kindly stop putting words in my mouth - is that I do not think Dion Phaneuf is of the quality of the players you are naming. I do not think he is better than Seabrook. I do not think he's better than Gio. I do not believe that even at his best he'll be as impactful as those two for as long as they have.

Why?

Because I feel Dion Phaneuf thinks slowly. I do not believe Babcock can help with that.

I think Dion Phaneuf skates slowly. I don't see how after 3+ years with Barb here how that is going to improve.

I don't think being captain benefits Dion Phaneuf. it's not helping him. it's not helping his game. Not liking some of the aspects about his decision, but out of everything kinda minute on the grand scheme of things.

So. Unlike other players, I do not believe Dion Phaneuf will be the kind of player that gets better with age. Of course. my opinion. If Lamoriello doesn't trade him and he proves me wrong. great. wonderful. I'm wrong. I will take my crow with glee. though again. I think Babcock can hide his deficiencies for a while but I think it would better the team in the long run to capitalize on the bestest that Dion can be and supplement elsewhere (and one more time just so we're clear: including trying to find quality players over the age of 30 because I do feel it could benefit the team).


so I am sorry if you find it it's illogical to keep a Dion Phaneuf past 30 who already skates slow, and thinks slow and not capitalize on their maximum asset getting potential.

You have made up your mind even though Babock is confident that Dion will be better than we have ever seen him in awhile. I think this is premature and closeminded. You are not even allowing the chance for Dion to succeed. To me this is illogical.

How would Dion compare to these D men if Dion has his best year since early Calgary years when he was up for Rookie of the year to Ovie?

Giordano 6.75M
Boychuck 6M
Green 6M
Marc Staal 5.70M
Seabrook (UFA 2016 summer)stands to get a raise from 5.80M

All D either 30 or 30+ or pushing 30.

As for slow, Dion is not Franson. He may not be Rielly fast, but Rielly doesn't have his physical attributes either.

Point is, you are closed to Dion being a Leaf. That's okay, it is your right, but just admit there is nothing he can do that will put him on your side. Despite all the reasons I put up if he has a great year under Babcock.

I think he can be a 30-something D man on this team when it turns around. Remember, Shanny has said the plan can change at any moment. We may have Stamkos next year. We may need a Babcock improved Dion somewhere down the line. Is this not possible?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Why? Have you changed your mind and decided to courage up on Holland/Kadri bet now? (It was me who bet you LMFAO)

I know the point of the thread. Ofc you don't need all 22 year olds to win a cup. BUT, understand this; Dion being paid 7M for the caliber of defensemen is a detriment to any team wanting to contend for a cup. You're trying to argue a hypothetical where Dion improves under Babock enough to live up to his pricetag. Me and several other posters just don't see that happening, hence why we want to trade him the first offer we get (not to mention this guy utterly crumbles under pressure, you don't want that do you?).

well that's the point I am trying to make.

Like - does Dion go all the way back to the double Dion-ing Calgary, "I was nominated for a Norris" days? Probably not, because I think he's too old, and he doesn't want to play that game any more. To me he wants to be more of the "point" getter defenseman but I don't think his game is that strong either.

And I do not see in what world how Babcock can make a player be that good. He can give a system that can play more to Dion's strengths. but we're just going to assume all of his weaknesses (which are many) just poofs away ? that he and Babcock will wear footsie pjs and talk over hot chocolate how now to implode his game under pressure?

[again: HIS personal game. under pressure.]

And again, you just CAN'T use those examples. HOF D-men with incredible hockey IQ's who aged like wine thanks to their smarts (Niedermayer anyway, not sure if you brought up Pronger before). Dion aint' anywhere close to those guys.

Surely you can see where we're coming from.

well that was my original point. I don't know why that had to be flung back into "well you're the only one who mentioned hall of famer" like I was just supposed to go "oh, okay, yeah. they were all old. let's ignore the fact that they are ALSO hall of famers who never really missed a step" hence why I said Gio etc would have been better , and dropped the whole hall of fame thing, . I didn't see the age disclaimer.

More than once as well. 13'14 season Dion played his worst hockey during those last 14 games. And let's not forget about game 7 vs Boston in the last 12 minutes where he looked utterly terrified of Boston when we needed him to come through the most. I can't think of any GM in their right mind who would want that on their cup-contending team.

exactly.

I am sorry. yes. the team is bad. and not talented enough and all of that. but it's not like Dion was a rose in a bed of thorns here. when the going gets tough, Dion looks really bad. (that St Louis game two years ago was the crux of it). sure does he get a cookie for really being all "pro" last season during the final stretch, sure?

but - i am sorry. he's been captain of a team that melts down under pressure (constantly) and he along with it. A lot of stuff happened last year, that I personally feel shouldn't have happened, should have been squashed. I don't think personally being a captain fits him and he's in the one market that you can't strip it and leave him here because it would be a constant talk point, and I don't think he'll ever wear it here like a glove. I think it will always be like a too small (or too big) shoe for him.


get better. go to a place where it fits him and he's not to go to guy. He's always going to be the go to guy here.