Dion Phaneuf This Season

[Daisy Jane]

Hm. regarding the one day off from the media thing.

 

[Menzinger]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it said that Babcock had little say in player management with Detroit (perhaps one of the main reasons why he wanted to leave).

Is there any evidence that says that Babcock actively WANTED Dion with the Wings?

 

[burpsalot]

There are two things that I think Babcock will do that will positively affect Phaneuf.

1. Reduce his icetime by 2-3 mins/ game. I don't think he has the stamina to be playing the amount of time he did & at times looked too tired both physically & mentally. This leads into #2.

2. Make the game less challenging to ALL the D. Rather than have the forwards take off & then be circling by the offensive blue line hoping the D can get the puck out, they will now help their D. Babcock will make the forwards come back lower into the defensive zone to provide the outlet pass & simplify the game for the D. This will enable the D to concentrate more on their defensive game & less on the simplified transitional game.

This then leads back to 1, if the D's game becomes easier, then the reduced icetime isn't going to be as necessary.

 

[Menzinger]

There are two things that I think Babcock will do that will positively affect Phaneuf.

1. Reduce his icetime by 2-3 mins/ game. I don't think he has the stamina to be playing the amount of time he did & at times looked too tired both physically & mentally. This leads into #2.

2. Make the game less challenging to ALL the D. Rather than have the forwards take off & then be circling by the offensive blue line hoping the D can get the puck out, they will now help their D. Babcock will make the forwards come back lower into the defensive zone to provide the outlet pass & simplify the game for the D. This will enable the D to concentrate more on their defensive game & less on the simplified transitional game.

This then leads back to 1, if the D's game becomes easier, then the reduced icetime isn't going to be as necessary.

Agreed.

The easiest way to get him to play better is to stop treating him like a #1. Spread out his icetime a bit - and let him simplify his game and focus a bit more on offense (where he excels)

 

[Daisy Jane]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it said that Babcock had little say in player management with Detroit (perhaps one of the main reasons why he wanted to leave).

Is there any evidence that says that Babcock actively WANTED Dion with the Wings?

i think the theory is - Detroit wanted to get Dion (but deal didn't go through at deadline). then they kinda sorta went for it at draft (July 1st?) but it fell through again.

and that because Babs was in Detroit he wanted Dion, and now that he's here he has Dion so why give him up?

 

[ACC1224]

Agreed.

The easiest way to get him to play better is to stop treating him like a #1. Spread out his icetime a bit - and let him simplify his game and focus a bit more on offense (where he excels)

A competent partner would go a long way as well.

 

[hotpaws]

A competent partner would go a long way as well.

being able to skate and think the game at a higher level would go a long way also

 

[Nithoniniel]

In a way, most of Dion's problems come from not being able to move the puck out of the defensive zone. Pairing him with someone that is proficient at zone exits (like Rielly) should always have been a priority.

 

[AvroArrow]

Saw him on the golf course about a week ago. Really stiff and awkward movements if you've ever seen him in person. He's kind of robotic and not so smooth

 

[hotpaws]

In a way, most of Dion's problems come from not being able to move the puck out of the defensive zone. Pairing him with someone that is proficient at zone exits (like Rielly) should always have been a priority.

Pairing him with an better partner would help any D but that still leaves the question of what he actually does to help the pairing ?

He's has very poor lateral mobility which leads him to giving a huge buffer to the puck carrier and easy entry deep into our zone .

He has a low iq which causes him to lose position any time he strays away from the front of our net .

He moves the puck poorly under pressure and really can only make simple passes when not pressured .

When he rushes the puck his lack of speed gets him trapped if the puck is turned over . He can't qb the pp and is a shooter without an accurate shot .

basically DP doesn't do anything at a high level , he's gotten by for years on name recognition with the fans but the rest of the league seems to know his limitations and that's why we couldn't move him for anything but scraps and cap dumps

Saw him on the golf course about a week ago. Really stiff and awkward movements if you've ever seen him in person. He's kind of robotic and not so smooth

he looks stiff and robotic and not smooth on the ice as well

 

[ACC1224]

Saw him on the golf course about a week ago. Really stiff and awkward movements if you've ever seen him in person. He's kind of robotic and not so smooth

Wasn't he once known as Robo Cop?

 

[Parkdale]

Pairing him with an better partner would help any D but that still leaves the question of what he actually does to help the pairing ?

He's has very poor lateral mobility which leads him to giving a huge buffer to the puck carrier and easy entry deep into our zone .

He has a low iq which causes him to lose position any time he strays away from the front of our net .

He moves the puck poorly under pressure and really can only make simple passes when not pressured .

When he rushes the puck his lack of speed gets him trapped if the puck is turned over . He can't qb the pp and is a shooter without an accurate shot .

basically DP doesn't do anything at a high level , he's gotten by for years on name recognition with the fans but the rest of the league seems to know his limitations and that's why we couldn't move him for anything but scraps and cap dumps

Endurance seems to be a problem too. He supposedly has worked out really hard this off season, so hopefully there will be improvements in this area. (Some may question what he's been doing in previous years though). Also he can look hyper aggressive against smaller or softer players, but much different against tougher players. Hope to see less of this in the upcoming season.

 

[ACC1224]

Endurance seems to be a problem too. He supposedly has worked out really hard this off season, so hopefully there will be improvements in this area. (Some may question what he's been doing in previous years though). Also he can look hyper aggressive against smaller or softer players, but much different against tougher players. Hope to see less of this in the upcoming season.

Endurance is another thing that would be solved by having a quality partner.

 

[hotpaws]

Endurance seems to be a problem too. He supposedly has worked out really hard this off season, so hopefully there will be improvements in this area. (Some may question what he's been doing in previous years though). Also he can look hyper aggressive against smaller or softer players, but much different against tougher players. Hope to see less of this in the upcoming season.

I think he trains hard every year , he may however not be training properly . Instead of hitting the weights hard he may be better off working more on his cardio and flexibility . Who knows maybe he does but his labored skating just takes too much out of him .

DP plays like a ***** , he refuses to be first on the puck and you're right he's a tough guy with smaller players and very docile against bigger guys or tougher teams .

 

[RLF]

Endurance is another thing that would be solved by having a quality partner.

As true as that may be, if he is our number 1 d-man like he is paid...he is supposed to make his partner look better, not the other way around. We can't pay for (2) number 1 d-men.

Very few teams have (2) legitimate 1'st pairing D-men on the team. They have a true number 1 that makes a #4 look like a number 2. That's what we hope Reilly can become, a true number 1 that only needs a #4 as a partner. Then Dion would be slotted into a #3, which is way too much to pay a #3. There is the problem with Dion as a future Leaf...He is not good enough to truly carry a first pairing, and paid too much to eventually be a #3.

 

[diceman934]

Endurance seems to be a problem too. He supposedly has worked out really hard this off season, so hopefully there will be improvements in this area. (Some may question what he's been doing in previous years though). Also he can look hyper aggressive against smaller or softer players, but much different against tougher players. Hope to see less of this in the upcoming season.

Endurance has been an issue, he often just stands net front allowing his D partner to do all the heavy lifting. He needs to be on the 2nd pair and see a reduction in his 5on5 minutes and a lower level of QOC.

I just hope that he is not paired with Rielly....as I'm not interested in seeing Rielly being hammered in the wall game after game as a result of his partner not willing to go back for the puck. As well as it would limit Rielly's options when he had the puck as Dion does not make great puck support reads.

 

[ACC1224]

As true as that may be, if he is our number 1 d-man like he is paid...he is supposed to make his partner look better, not the other way around. We can't pay for (2) number 1 d-men.

Very few teams have (2) legitimate 1'st pairing D-men on the team. They have a true number 1 that makes a #4 look like a number 2. That's what we hope Reilly can become, a true number 1 that only needs a #4 as a partner. Then Dion would be slotted into a #3, which is way too much to pay a #3. There is the problem with Dion as a future Leaf...He is not good enough to truly carry a first pairing, and paid too much to eventually be a #3.

Can't believe that is an accurate statement.

How many defensemen "truly carry a first pairing"?

 

[ACC1224]

In a way, most of Dion's problems come from not being able to move the puck out of the defensive zone. Pairing him with someone that is proficient at zone exits (like Rielly) should always have been a priority.

I imagine that would be a dream come true for the young defenseman.

 

[burpsalot]

In a way, most of Dion's problems come from not being able to move the puck out of the defensive zone. Pairing him with someone that is proficient at zone exits (like Rielly) should always have been a priority.

I mentioned yesterday what I think Babcock will be doing with the D.

2. Make the game less challenging to ALL the D. Rather than have the forwards take off & then be circling by the offensive blue line hoping the D can get the puck out, they will now help their D. Babcock will make the forwards come back lower into the defensive zone to provide the outlet pass & simplify the game for the D. This will enable the D to concentrate more on their defensive game & less on the simplified transitional game.

Responsibility of exiting the defensive zone will be put more on the forwards.

 

[RLF]

Can't believe that is an accurate statement.

How many defensemen "truly carry a first pairing"?

Check out who plays with who on most teams. Just because guys like Muzzin and Methot play on the first pair does not make them "true" 1st pairing d-men. Would they survive with a lesser partner if they were the number 1?
Chicago will split Keith and Seabrook quite often because Keith can play with a #4...or worse.
You got McDonaugh and Girardi(questionable), Piet and Bouw, Weber/Josi...who else plays 2 legit 1st pairing guys together?

We have at best a $7mil a year #2...and that isn't good enough.

 

[Parkdale]

If the leafs could flip Dion for nothing except the other team totally taking on his contract (no salary retention), I think they might go for it given where this team is in its rebuild. They could accomplish this by trying waivers, but the risk is that no-one would put in a claim (or no-one currently has the cap space to do so) and the Leafs would be left with a PR nightmare and an even more diminished asset. Clearly they would hope for a better return, which is why it's important he comes out gangbusters this season.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Pairing him with an better partner would help any D but that still leaves the question of what he actually does to help the pairing ?

He's has very poor lateral mobility which leads him to giving a huge buffer to the puck carrier and easy entry deep into our zone .

He has a low iq which causes him to lose position any time he strays away from the front of our net .

He moves the puck poorly under pressure and really can only make simple passes when not pressured .

When he rushes the puck his lack of speed gets him trapped if the puck is turned over . He can't qb the pp and is a shooter without an accurate shot .

basically DP doesn't do anything at a high level , he's gotten by for years on name recognition with the fans but the rest of the league seems to know his limitations and that's why we couldn't move him for anything but scraps and cap dumps

Endurance is another thing that would be solved by having a quality partner.

I imagine that would be a dream come true for the young defenseman.

The way I see it for Dion is that he's got some weak parts in his game that become problems when he gets stuck in his own zone.

First of all he doesn't seem to have a lot of endurance. He gets noticeably fatigued quicker than usual. I think this leads him to playing a more cautious game when opponents get the puck under control in our zone, reserving energy. You'll notice this with Dion mostly covering slot and not going full out into corners, as mentioned above.

Tired minds also make more mistakes. His decision-making is not the best from the start, and when he spends so many shifts being stuck in his own zone getting tired, it just gets worse.

So the logical thing to do is make sure that break that cycle, get him support and a partner that alleviates this issue.

As for what Dion can bring? Defensively, I see crease clearance, physicality, defensive conscience. In the transition, I see how he can help out with his passing game, that I think is distinct but somewhat lacking in vision. Offensively, he gives us another threat with his shot, plus that he likes to jump into space and is actually quite good at that when he plays that game.

I think Dion has been rather weak the last few seasons, his reputation not taking the hit it deserves by not getting absolutely wrecked playing "hard" minutes. However, I do think he's got qualities and no matter how we proceed with him, trading or keeping, we'd do well to dig them up and use them. We've squandered him so far, it's time to stop that.

I mentioned yesterday what I think Babcock will be doing with the D.

Responsibility of exiting the defensive zone will be put more on the forwards.

Which will help everyone not Gardiner and Rielly, and most likely them too (more options).