Confirmed with Link: Dillon Dube takes leave from Calgary Flames (TSN reports he's been asked to Surrender to London ON Police)

[Lunatik]

If he shows up at work with a "doctor's note" recommending time off (which would be the equivalent for plebs like you and I) the team pretty much has no choice but to take him at his word and let him have time off. The tweet / podcast / whatever from Serivalli also points to a leak from the team, who are going on what they were told.

As Super pointed out earlier, no need for the team to provide any details about his reason for leave request. Just f***ing say "personal matter and no further comment at this time".

Mental health leave gives a LTIR possibility, a leave for personal reasons may not. It's likely as simple as that. But since Dube was the first of the 5 to take leave, the Flames likely had no idea this was coming and they're not going to release a new statement based on rumors.

 

[Some Other Flame]

 

[DFF]

If your argument is that we shouldve let Dube go the when the incident first come to light last year then whats a different story. Formenton just happend to be a FA and sens decided to let em go, Dube was alr signed at that point. This is a completely different matter. Flames as the employer isnt getting up to date info from the police about the investigation where they knew the charges are being laid next week, all they heard was prob dube stating its a mental health issue (players seem to think thats the issue) and reported as such. Theres no benefit to hiding SA charges thats coming to light in a week as mental health from the flames perspective, literally non.

no my argument is it’s bullshit to say they didn’t suspect anything. Dube has been a suspect from the beginning. He never explicitly denied being there. He just denied being guilty. Everyone knew the investigation is close to be finish and the announcement was coming any time. They had to be stupid not to suspect something.

I am not accusing the Flames of doing anything wrong legally but they had suspicion

 

[Double Dion]

Tough situation. I always like to reserve judgement. To say hockey doesn't have a problem with drunken sexual assault is denial. To say famous/wealthy people don't have a problem with false allegations is also denial. Let it play out.

 

[DomBarr]

The longer they take to address the mental health tweet the worse it looks. If they thought it was the best way to address it then they need to apologize. IF Dube misled/lied to them about the reason throw him under the bus with a statement like “we are extremely disappointed that Dylan decided to use mental health as an excuse to take a leave to address his legal troubles and would like to apologize to our fans and the general public for this.”

 

[crackdown44]

Mental health leave gives a LTIR possibility, a leave for personal reasons may not. It's likely as simple as that. But since Dube was the first of the 5 to take leave, the Flames likely had no idea this was coming and they're not going to release a new statement based on rumors.

I think if they’re serious about mental health in any capacity they have to release a new statement saying that they were in the dark about what was happening if that’s actually the case

 

[Lunatik]

I think if they’re serious about mental health in any capacity they have to release a new statement saying that they were in the dark about what was happening if that’s actually the case

No organization will do that before the 5th, because until them it's speculation and not official and the NHL may ask teams to say nothing and release a league wide statement themselves

Edit: didn't see Dube's lawyer made a statement.

Flames could issue a statement, but if they recant the mental health stuff it looks bad to other players in the NHLPA for not supporting their player and if they don't recant, it's bad PR.

Dube has put the Flames in a no win situation

 

[crackdown44]

No organization will do that before the 5th, because until them it's speculation and not official and the NHL may ask teams to say nothing and release a league wide statement themselves

Edit: didn't see Dube's lawyer made a statement.

Flames could issue a statement, but if they recant the mental health stuff it looks bad to other players in the NHLPA for not supporting their player and if they don't recant, it's bad PR.

Dube has put the Flames in a no win situation

I think the bottom line is that if they don’t recant, it makes it seem like they knew what the reason was and went along with it

I think you’d rather piss off the NHLPA than make it seem like you willingly carried water for a dude being charged with sexual assault

 

[Lunatik]

I think the bottom line is that if they don’t recant, it makes it seem like they knew what the reason was and went along with it

I think you’d rather piss off the NHLPA than make it seem like you willingly carried water for a dude being charged with sexual assault

Bad PR in sports goes away very quickly.

Pissing off players in the players association, doesn't as quickly.

Believe me I'm a bigger mental health guy that most on here since I struggle with it constantly. But I'm also realistic and logical.

It makes no sense for the Flames to piss off the other players in the league when very few people will give a shit about their statement regarding Dube after they let him walk this summer.

 

[Hodgy]

Said it in the main thread. If Dube claimed it was a mental health issue the Flames are obliged to report as such. If Dube lied that is on him, not the Flames.

Now, if they “colluded” with the player to give him cover that’s another issue.

Bashing the org for listening to their player is just nonsense though.

Others have pointed this out, but you are in fact wrong when you state the Flames are "obliged to report" that the leave of absence is to attend to his mental health even if Dube gave that as a reason to the Flames. The Flames almost certainly would have known about these allegations which have been rumoured for years. So, while they don't know if Dube is guilty as alleged, they can't deny their knowledge of the allegations. And then you get basically five players from the WJC team, all in unison on the same day, take leaves of absence, which I doubt was a total surprise to NHL organizations either. So anyway, the Flames ought to have known better, and should have just announced that they were granting Dube's requested leave of absence. They didn't have to go any further than that, and frankly given what they knew, they absolutely shouldn't have and deserve all the criticism they are getting.

Doesn't actually matter.

Dube: "I need to leave, I am having a mental health crises."

Flames: "Nah I don't believe you."

Can't see that going well. Whether individuals in the org had doubts (and frankly we can't actually know that unless they say so), the only course of action remains the same.

How about this:

Dube: "I need to leave, I am having a mental health crises."

Flames: *pause and think about all the allegations they have heard regarding Dube for years* - "We grant your leave of absence and will put out a press release notifying the public that you have requested and have been granted a leave of absence".,

Wow, that was simple.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

How about this:

Dube: "I need to leave, I am having a mental health crises."

Flames: *pause and think about all the allegations they have heard regarding Dube for years* - "We grant your leave of absence and will put out a press release notifying the public that you have requested and have been granted a leave of absence".,

Wow, that was simple.

Because as mentioned earlier, it's not just like you're calling in sick or something.

It's involving the league, it's involving insurance (who covers the player's salary on LTIR, not the team), it's involving medical professionals, and probably a bunch of other people I've forgotten, in addition to player & team.

Not something that you pull out of thin air.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Others have pointed this out, but you are in fact wrong when you state the Flames are "obliged to report" that the leave of absence is to attend to his mental health even if Dube gave that as a reason to the Flames. The Flames almost certainly would have known about these allegations which have been rumoured for years. So, while they don't know if Dube is guilty as alleged, they can't deny their knowledge of the allegations. And then you get basically five players from the WJC team, all in unison on the same day, take leaves of absence, which I doubt was a total surprise to NHL organizations either. So anyway, the Flames ought to have known better, and should have just announced that they were granting Dube's requested leave of absence. They didn't have to go any further than that, and frankly given what they knew, they absolutely shouldn't have and deserve all the criticism they are getting.

Listen, if you're going to accuse me of being "factually wrong", you better come with at least something resembling facts. Go back and educate yourself on the actual timeline of events and then I might entertain this.

 

[Rubi]

The Flames could have said that Dube was leaving because of PERSONAL reasons..... just like they did with Kylington. No need to bring up mental health.

Bullshit PR by the Flames.

 

[Rubi]

Why hasn't Conroy called a news conference today to discuss and clarify this PR disaster for the Flames? Every minute of silence by the Flames makes them look more and more guilty of deception.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

no my argument is it’s bullshit to say they didn’t suspect anything. Dube has been a suspect from the beginning. He never explicitly denied being there. He just denied being guilty. Everyone knew the investigation is close to be finish and the announcement was coming any time. They had to be stupid not to suspect something.

I am not accusing the Flames of doing anything wrong legally but they had suspicion

If the Flames knew, they did nothing legally or procedurally wrong. Every workplace in Canada has HR laws to follow. People who are under investigation by police (not even charges, just being under investigation) are usually required to inform their employers. NHL players are, in Canada at least, the closest you can get to being more of a public figure than a private citizen so Dube most definitely informed them. If he hadn't informed them and did lie to the Flames, I imagine they could terminate his contract but I do not know for certain.

 

[Hodgy]

Because as mentioned earlier, it's not just like you're calling in sick or something.

It's involving the league, it's involving insurance (who covers the player's salary on LTIR, not the team), it's involving medical professionals, and probably a bunch of other people I've forgotten, in addition to player & team.

Not something that you pull out of thin air.

Sure, but none of that means they have to disclose the reason Dube likely gave for the leave of absence, and they absolutely shouldn't have given their likely knowledge of the allegations.

Listen, if you're going to accuse me of being "factually wrong", you better come with at least something resembling facts. Go back and educate yourself on the actual timeline of events and then I might entertain this.

You have made an assertion that you have not substantiated. I don't have to prove you wrong as I didn't make the initial assertion.

Your whole point seems to be that the Flames had to disclose the reasons for the leave of absence that were given by Dube, but you haven't substantiated this. Why were the Flames obliged to do this? Why couldn't they just grant the request and disclose that "Dube requested and has been granted an indefinite leave of absence". Why couldn't they do this?

Dube, if he cared, could have also made a statement.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Sure, but none of that means they have to disclose the reason Dube likely gave for the leave of absence, and they absolutely shouldn't have given their likely knowledge of the allegations.


You have made an assertion that you have not substantiated. I don't have to prove you wrong as I didn't make the initial assertion.

Your whole point seems to be that the Flames had to disclose the reasons for the leave of absence that were given by Dube, but you haven't substantiated this. Why were the Flames obliged to do this? Why couldn't they just grant the request and disclose that "Dube requested and has been granted an indefinite leave of absence". Why couldn't they do this?

Dube, if he cared, could have also made a statement.

You're claiming I am "in fact wrong", wrong about what exactly you are unable to elaborate on. Do you know what obliged means?

You don't understand the timeline of what happened. Glad we could clear that up, though.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Why hasn't Conroy called a news conference today to discuss and clarify this PR disaster for the Flames? Every minute of silence by the Flames makes them look more and more guilty of deception.

So let me see if I understand:

1. Flames org is bad for not thinking enough about their initial message regarding Dube's departure.
2. Flames org is bad for taking too long to think through their next message regarding Dube's departure.

Maybe lets wait and see what the org does next?

 

[Rubi]

So let me see if I understand:

1. Flames org is bad for not thinking enough about their initial message regarding Dube's departure.
2. Flames org is bad for taking too long to think through their next message regarding Dube's departure.

Maybe lets wait and see what the org does next?

The shit has hit the fan and the organization looks bad. It doesn't take much to call a news conference and answer questions. That's why Bean and Conroy get paid the big bucks.

 

[InfinityIggy]

The shit has hit the fan and the organization looks bad. It doesn't take much to call a news conference and answer questions. That's why Bean and Conroy get paid the big bucks.

Well yes but that's the crux of it isn't it? Questions. There are going to be a lot of questions about who knew what, why the messaging was what it was. I imagine they want to have their ducks in a row to avoid making an even bigger PR nightmare (and I should add perhaps potential legal nightmare).

They know the questions are coming whether they call a press conference or not, so that they haven't done so yet isn't much of a surprise.

 

[Rubi]

Well yes but that's the crux of it isn't it? Questions. There are going to be a lot of questions about who knew what, why the messaging was what it was. I imagine they want to have their ducks in a row to avoid making an even bigger PR nightmare (and I should add perhaps potential legal nightmare).

They know the questions are coming whether they call a press conference or not, so that they haven't done so yet isn't much of a surprise.

The story was released at 1 pm by TSN. All we are hearing from Flames management is crickets since. It's a bad look.

 

[InfinityIggy]

The story was released at 1 pm by TSN. All we are hearing from Flames management is crickets since. It's a bad look.

So 4 (5 hours?) ago.. is that even enough time to organize a press conference?

If days go by and we get radio silence I will agree with you. For now though, no. I don't take anything from the "lack" of an update to this point. I would expect the Flames to (hopefully) be doing due diligence into exactly what they should saying in the near future regarding this.

Sometimes I think the internet has spoiled all of our patience.

 

[crackdown44]

Has the Flames org considered that I have ADHD and that I want to know now

 

[Backlund]

I doubt any team with players involved will say much right now. The court proceedings will take awhile.

It was stupid for the Flames to claim it was mental health with the knowledge of this still hanging in the air but I chalk it up more to incompetence. Dube told them it was mental health and they didn't consider the alternatives.

 

[crackdown44]

Need a mod to embed for me again because I’m still dumb