Confirmed with Link: Dillon Dube takes leave from Calgary Flames (TSN reports he's been asked to Surrender to London ON Police)

[Zirakzigil]

His contract won't be terminated due to an accusation, and there is little chance this trial happens before the season ends.

Per the CBA Bettman can and will suspend them indefinitely. He also has the authority to terminate the contracts.

 

[Mobiandi]

The contracts will be terminated this week. There will also be incentive to do it quickly before or during the ASB to not draw a lot of attention.

If the Hawks can do it to Perry in 48 hours for a non-criminal offense, they can certainly do it to the 4 NHL players in a similar timeframe

 

[Backlund]

They'll probably have a hard time terminating their contracts when they haven't been convicted. All the players have the rest of this season left on their contracts, every team will just let it expire and leave the players as UFAs to avoid a legal battle with no upside.

Perry knew he would be able to get another contract from another team because there wasn't a legal battle hanging over his head. These guys will have to rely on how desperate teams will get and Carter Hart is the only player good enough for teams to consider it depending on how the trial goes.

 

[Lunatik]

Per the CBA Bettman can and will suspend them indefinitely. He also has the authority to terminate the contracts.

He can, but he won't.

The contracts will be terminated this week. There will also be incentive to do it quickly before or during the ASB to not draw a lot of attention.

If the Hawks can do it to Perry in 48 hours for a non-criminal offense, they can certainly do it to the 4 NHL players in a similar timeframe

If they try and terminate the contracts, the NHLPA will appeal and it'll be in the spotlight even longer.

What's more likely is that the NHL suspends them indefinitely, then since all players involved are pending RFAs; the Flames, Flyers and Devils will all non-tender the players, making them UFAs.

Then the NHL washes their hands of the players, without an appeal hanging over their heads.

 

[InfinityIggy]

He can, but he won't.

If they try and terminate the contracts, the NHLPA will appeal and it'll be in the spotlight even longer.

What's more likely is that the NHL suspends them indefinitely, then since all players involved are pending RFAs; the Flames, Flyers and Devils will all non-tender the players, making them UFAs.

Then the NHL washes their hands of the players, without an appeal hanging over their heads.

Didn’t realize all 4 NHL players contracts ended this season. I’m inclined to agree. Way easier for the league to just suspend them all.

 

[Zirakzigil]

He can, but he won't.

If they try and terminate the contracts, the NHLPA will appeal and it'll be in the spotlight even longer.

What's more likely is that the NHL suspends them indefinitely, then since all players involved are pending RFAs; the Flames, Flyers and Devils will all non-tender the players, making them UFAs.

Then the NHL washes their hands of the players, without an appeal hanging over their heads.

It’s very clear in the CBA that Bettman can terminate contracts on charges alone. It’s been talked about in the main board thread. Bare minimum they get suspended. The Flames could terminate it as well if they wanted to go down that route, there are clauses about professional conduct in there for sure.

 

[Rubi]

The answer is clear why do you need them to say it? Dube told them it was mental health because he needed a reason and his lawyer told him not to tell the Flames why. The Flames granted him his leave. They're stupid for not suspecting it but there isn't a need for a press conference so we can hear them talk about how dumb they are.

I guess I just can't believe they are that stupid because i don't think they are. I want someone to step up to the podium in front of a bunch of microphones and tell the truth.

 

[Rubi]

Didn’t realize all 4 NHL players contracts ended this season. I’m inclined to agree. Way easier for the league to just suspend them all.

If the Flames suspend and only suspend Dube they will still be on the hook for the $925,000 they owe him in salary. Do you think Murray Edwards will be ok with that just because the league wants it all to just go away? Thats a lot of money even to Edwards. Or maybe all the other owners will all chip on to cover that $925,000?

 

[Bounces R Way]

Man the hysterics on the messaging over a tweet are just too much. Dube assumably asked for a LOA to deal with his mental health, and the Flames granted him one. Good enough for me. I don't know what else or what exactly they weren't supposed to say in a twitter post. I'm not sure if they knew or didn't know he was about to face criminal charges makes a lot of difference to me. I'd bet they were at least aware it could be a possibility.

I would imagine the knowledge you're being asked to surrender to police on SA charges would have a negative affect on a person's mental health. That's the thing with mental health, you don't get to qualify and validate problems like insomnia and anxiety and disqualify and invalidate facing criminal charges for sexual deviancy. Rapists typically aren't mentally healthy. It's an intentionally broad concept.

 

[Bounces R Way]

As for Dillon himself, I'm disappointed he's involved at all. Especially in his capacity as captain of the team. If I am now free to speculate I will speculate his NHL career is likely over, even if he is found to have not participated in any criminal wrongdoing.

I'm not overly familiar with the case and don't plan to be, but I do hope justice whatever it may be is served. This I view as a Dillon Dube problem, not a Calgary Flames one. The lack of due diligence in the Bill Peters hire pissed me off a lot more, because he was hired to be a leader of young men and had clearly failed in that capacity before.

 

[Lunatik]

It’s very clear in the CBA that Bettman can terminate contracts on charges alone. It’s been talked about in the main board thread. Bare minimum they get suspended. The Flames could terminate it as well if they wanted to go down that route, there are clauses about professional conduct in there for sure.

I agreed that he could. Then in my response to the other poster, I explained why that won't happen.

Termination of their contracts would see this carry on into the summer with the NHLPA filing grievances, this involving an independent arbitrator. All 4 players are pending RFAs, with this hanging over their heads, the players won't be getting qualifying offers.

So if they're just suspended, this shit show ends on July 1 for the NHL

if they have their contracts terminated it could very easily carry into the summer and possibly even into next season.

It makes more sense for the NHL to suspend them and be done with it. If any of the players had term left on their contracts, then I'd agree with termination.

 

[Rubi]

I'm hearing this likely won't go to trial for another 2+ years.

 

[Bjindaho]

Didn’t realize all 4 NHL players contracts ended this season. I’m inclined to agree. Way easier for the league to just suspend them all.

This is where having a policy like MLB's Administrative leave (which can later be grieved if need be) would be nice. The current rule forces Calgary to pay the money and count it against the cap for something outside of hockey if Dube is suspended. Admin leave would simply remove him from Calgary's roster/cap until the leave is ended and the only variable is whether the PA wins their appeal for the player to be paid on admin leave.

 

[Felidae]

I think what makes the statement feel a bit more icky is that it had not only fans, but his own teammates publicly supporting him. (Andersson, Kylington to name a few)

If they didn't know about it, I'm sure they feel some type of way.

 

[Nanuuk]

I think what makes the statement feel a bit more icky is that it had not only fans, but his own teammates publicly supporting him. (Andersson, Kylington to name a few)

If they didn't know about it, I'm sure they feel some type of way.

Dube is innocent until proven guilty. There was nothing wrong with a show of public support prior to the recent announcement of a criminal charge.

Whether there is continuing public support is up to the individual.

As for me I'll be patient as the story unfolds. There are two sides to every story.

I do agree that the likelihood of Dube's career resuming is diminished.

 

[Fig]

I guess I just can't believe they are that stupid because i don't think they are. I want someone to step up to the podium in front of a bunch of microphones and tell the truth.

Have you ever heard the saying, "Sometimes if you have to implicitly say it, it might not be true?" They could go to a podium to speak and someone would accept and others would say they were lying through their teeth. It's a no win scenario. Less is more.

As for Dillon himself, I'm disappointed he's involved at all. Especially in his capacity as captain of the team. If I am now free to speculate I will speculate his NHL career is likely over, even if he is found to have not participated in any criminal wrongdoing.

I'm not overly familiar with the case and don't plan to be, but I do hope justice whatever it may be is served. This I view as a Dillon Dube problem, not a Calgary Flames one. The lack of due diligence in the Bill Peters hire pissed me off a lot more, because he was hired to be a leader of young men and had clearly failed in that capacity before.

I think they may have sorta known it, but didn't think it was a big deal or didn't think something so far back in the AHL would have blown up like it did. I do due diligence as part of my work a lot. Lots of people don't understand what the definition of due diligence is. It has to be explicitly defined in as objective of a manner as possible and you can increase or decrease the scope of the work based on "professional judgement"/when a client asks. Babcock stuff was also just as bad and just blew up at a weird time too IIRC but if it wasn't an issue for so long, why would it suddenly be an issue? That's normal logic. Peter's stuff on paper wasn't supposed to be on the forefront. But he got nailed worse than Babcock.

It's like... asbestos. Somehow Babcock's shit didn't need remediation until the whole image thing in Columbus. Peter's asbestos blew up the moment it was brought up. Maybe it would have been different if BLM and mental health awareness were swapped. But honestly speaking, in the end the result is the same and I do think this is the best timeline for having hockey started to address racism and burying mental health for so long.

I think what makes the statement feel a bit more icky is that it had not only fans, but his own teammates publicly supporting him. (Andersson, Kylington to name a few)

If they didn't know about it, I'm sure they feel some type of way.

Or maybe they thought they wanted to separate Dube the person vs Dube the accused?

Many have brought up this fact, but many others basically are borderline saying that anyone accused of something like that doesn't deserve time away for these reasons or doesn't deserve sympathy for that struggle since they imparted duress on another. That's not how the law works first of all, but that's a comment on deaf ears.

In the past, we'd say, "Honestly, this doesn't matter." but I think it does. You cannot withhold rights to an accused or you'd get in the way of due process. That's how you let known criminals get additional rights, get the original cases thrown out etc. You have to have someone ensure their rights are fully maintained and proper due process is followed so that when the appropriate truth comes to light that they have very little recourse and a lot less error in process they can latch onto and get away with less justice than they deserve. Most people don't get that. You want due process to be followed to a T so that they can be put away for longer. Take that due process away and you're exchanging that with a shorter sentence or exoneration.

Ultimately though, the fact we're in the limelight again for stuff again sucks. As much as I want it to just go away, I hope that it is dealt with appropriately and that more of this stuff can be cleaned up. Sucks that we're the poster boy again though. But this Dube/Ronni stuff... once it's over, I really hope we don't have to deal with it again because it has been appropriately dealt with. As much as it makes me sad, I do have faith that the Flames org are always willing to be at the forefront of addressing and cleaning up certain issues earlier than some of the other teams.

 

[Rubi]

Have you ever heard the saying, "Sometimes if you have to implicitly say it, it might not be true?" They could go to a podium to speak and someone would accept and others would say they were lying through their teeth. It's a no win scenario. Less is more.



I think they may have sorta known it, but didn't think it was a big deal or didn't think something so far back in the AHL would have blown up like it did. I do due diligence as part of my work a lot. Lots of people don't understand what the definition of due diligence is. It has to be explicitly defined in as objective of a manner as possible and you can increase or decrease the scope of the work based on "professional judgement"/when a client asks. Babcock stuff was also just as bad and just blew up at a weird time too IIRC but if it wasn't an issue for so long, why would it suddenly be an issue? That's normal logic. Peter's stuff on paper wasn't supposed to be on the forefront. But he got nailed worse than Babcock.

It's like... asbestos. Somehow Babcock's shit didn't need remediation until the whole image thing in Columbus. Peter's asbestos blew up the moment it was brought up. Maybe it would have been different if BLM and mental health awareness were swapped. But honestly speaking, in the end the result is the same and I do think this is the best timeline for having hockey started to address racism and burying mental health for so long.

I still believe the worst thing the Flames can do, PR wise, is hide behind a 4 line statement written by lawyers and refuse to answer questions about both their handling of the matter and about the statement they originally issued on Jan 21 saying Dube was, basically, mentally ill. ... which garnered a lot of sympathy for Dube. The Flames organization is starting to develop a bit of a sleezy reputation for looking the other way...deserved or not.. Peters and his player abuse, Roni with rape charges, Dube with his sexual assault charges, and lets include Sutter in that list with the way he treated some players.

 

[Lunatik]

I still believe the worst thing the Flames can do, PR wise, is hide behind a 4 line statement written by lawyers and refuse to answer questions about both their handling of the matter and about the statement they originally issued on Jan 21 saying Dube was, basically, mentally ill. ... which garnered a lot of sympathy for Dube. The Flames organization is starting to develop a bit of a sleezy reputation for looking the other way...deserved or not.. Peters and his player abuse, Roni with rape charges, Dube with his sexual assault charges, and lets include Sutter in that list with the way he treated some players.

Dude, it f***ing stated he was under the care of MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS, it's not their place to question it if doctors are saying it's true.

He can be both a piece of shit and struggling with his mental health.

[MOD]

 

[oilexport]

Can't he claim he's on stress leave, and employers can't terminate anyone while they are ill?

So legally, he gets paid till contract ends ?

 

[Fig]

I still believe the worst thing the Flames can do, PR wise, is hide behind a 4 line statement written by lawyers and refuse to answer questions about both their handling of the matter and about the statement they originally issued on Jan 21 saying Dube was, basically, mentally ill. ... which garnered a lot of sympathy for Dube. The Flames organization is starting to develop a bit of a sleezy reputation for looking the other way...deserved or not.. Peters and his player abuse, Roni with rape charges, Dube with his sexual assault charges, and lets include Sutter in that list with the way he treated some players.

I deal with PR stuff on occasion with my line of work, so I respectfully disagree.

But that's not to say I don't get your line off thinking. I just got in more trouble and took longer to resolve issues using similar methods to what you're suggesting, and honestly speaking, those you try to appease in this manner often aren't appeased. So I no longer use this method.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Do posters here really want Calgary setting the precedent of saying “I don’t believe you” or “no you aren’t” when a player requests mental health leave? It’s a step in the right direction that it’s a no questions asked policy regardless of if Dube abused it.

 

[Fig]

Do posters here really want Calgary setting the precedent of saying “I don’t believe you” or “no you aren’t” when a player requests mental health leave? It’s a step in the right direction that it’s a no questions asked policy regardless of if Dube abused it.

No. I think they just want all future media announcements to not include the details of the leave.

 

[Backlund]

Do posters here really want Calgary setting the precedent of saying “I don’t believe you” or “no you aren’t” when a player requests mental health leave? It’s a step in the right direction that it’s a no questions asked policy regardless of if Dube abused it.

Some people like to make a big deal about nothing.

 

[InfinityIggy]

“The second thing that Bettman said that confirmed a lot of things that I believed was that the teams had no idea what was going on. There were times over the past couple of years I would ask teams about this and they would say: “we honestly don’t know,” and I didn’t know whether or not to believe it. I came to believe it but in the beginning, like a lot of people I didn’t believe it, but Bettman did confirm that which is that they kept the teams in the dark about what they learned, and I know that bothered teams. It bothered some of the teams, it frustrated some teals to a great deal.
Look at Calgary, a week ago they allowed Dube a mental leave and then two days later Carter Hart goes on mental leave and we start to realize what is happening and the Flames took a lot of criticism for it. But based on what Bettman said it’s pretty obvious here the Calgary Flames did not know how close this was getting or how serious this situation… or even more how more serious this situation has become. I know the teams were really bothered by it, but Bettman clearly felt this was the best way to do it. It just confirmed that a lot of these teams were in the dark.”
– Elliotte Friedman, 32 Thoughts

Those that took this as opportunity to bash the organization should be embarrassed quite frankly. Take a lap, and try not to move the goalposts while doing so.

 

[super6646]

Those that took this as opportunity to bash the organization should be embarrassed quite frankly. Take a lap, and try not to move the goalposts while doing so.

Strong language here. There was lots of egg on face here, saying ppl need to be embarrassed after being upset for being misled is rich.

Do posters here really want Calgary setting the precedent of saying “I don’t believe you” or “no you aren’t” when a player requests mental health leave? It’s a step in the right direction that it’s a no questions asked policy regardless of if Dube abused it.

No one has said this. The next time a mental health statement is issued however, there will certainly be people who will “not believe it” because of this incident unfortunately.