Devils 2018-19 team discussion (news and notes) - part Xl

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Mueller and SAntini can barely get into the lineup now so what makes you think they will get in when we have 1-2 better DMen?

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Mueller and SAntini can barely get into the lineup now so what makes you think they will get in when we have 1-2 better DMen?

Santini has been playing since his return from injury and Mueller was our best dman in our zone...

And its very unlikely were acquiring two better defenseman IN THEIR OWN END. Smith’s biggest deficiency thus far is his own defensive play and the same is said with Vatanen Severson and Butcher...

Idk about you but id like more than one dman, who’d be on our bottom pair in Greene, whos better in their own zone than the opponents.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I also think Hynes is doing what he did with Santini, with Mueller. Plays high end minutes and does well, falters a bit and then is sat for a longwhile. Did the same with Santini and now hes seeing fair minutes and doing very well with them.

Perhaps it makes them hungrier? Maybe theyre taking more time to step aside with Mueller since hes not playing? Idk im not there for practices and meetings but even if I disagree with the strong benching tactic, it seems like its just that; a tactic.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Santini has been playing since his return from injury and Mueller was our best dman in our zone...

And its very unlikely were acquiring two better defenseman IN THEIR OWN END. Smith’s biggest deficiency thus far is his own defensive play and the same is said with Vatanen Severson and Butcher...

Idk about you but id like more than one dman, who’d be on our bottom pair in Greene, whos better in their own zone than the opponents.

Your sensible approach is not welcome here... commence stay-at-home-defenseman bashing and comparisons of Santini and Mueller to Polak and Orpik.

 

[My3Sons]

Your sensible approach is not welcome here... commence stay-at-home-defenseman bashing and comparisons of Santini and Mueller to Polak and Orpik.

If you have enough offense in your top four my thought is that a bottom pairing of Mueller and Santini wouldn’t be bad. If they could play roughly even up with the other team’s top lines in their end of the ice and kill penalties and add some physicality to offset the Smith Walsh Davies grouping it just might work.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Santini has been playing since his return from injury and Mueller was our best dman in our zone...

And its very unlikely were acquiring two better defenseman IN THEIR OWN END. Smith’s biggest deficiency thus far is his own defensive play and the same is said with Vatanen Severson and Butcher...

Idk about you but id like more than one dman, who’d be on our bottom pair in Greene, whos better in their own zone than the opponents.

did you watch any of the WJC? Smith was not a liability at all. He has a calming influence in his own zone and rarely makes the wrong play.

if we add Smith AND another LH DMan next year, that will be a lot. How often do teams change half their D corps in one year?

and I like both Santini and Mueller but lets be honest, those guys don't move the needle THAT much.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

"stay at home" DMen are becoming a thing of the past

DMen have to be able to skate. Getting the puck out of the zone quickly/efficiently is more important than being a hulking stay at home guy,

 

[billingtons ghost]

"stay at home" DMen are becoming a thing of the past

DMen have to be able to skate. Getting the puck out of the zone quickly/efficiently is more important than being a hulking stay at home guy,

Well, yeah - my point is that Santini/Mueller can both skate, and can both pass and can both move the puck more than they get credit for on this board. Can they make the Vats/Severson/Butcher stretch pass that can spring someone for a breakaway, (maybe) or have the vision in the ozone to create something out of nothing (no) - but I think if they get icetime and grow into their roles, ... and the Vats/Severson/Butcher don't IMPROVE their decision making (skating in Butcher's case)... then they may ultimately move the needle more to the NET positive, than the other guys do

...because those stretch passes and brilliant maneuvers at the blueline that haven't worked, and the failed defensive coverages have been costly this year.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

did you watch any of the WJC? Smith was not a liability at all. He has a calming influence in his own zone and rarely makes the wrong play.

if we add Smith AND another LH DMan next year, that will be a lot. How often do teams change half their D corps in one year?

and I like both Santini and Mueller but lets be honest, those guys don't move the needle THAT much.

I never said he was a liability per say, but besides his shot being that of a bantam player (lol), his defense in his own zone is his next worst asset. Which if he is decent there than thats amazing for us! Smith even said it himself pre-season, his defense needs work.

And while I dont think those two move the needle too much, I definitely think one of the two has a spot with us for the near future. Both are fluid skaters who excel in their own end - Mueller had issues moving the puck but his vision is definitely there. Santini I dont see any major flaws and he seems well rounded from his experience over the years.

I just think its a bit unfair to label Smith good in his own end and then in the same breath attack Santini and Mueller for being deficient in the transition game. If that was the case, Smith would be up right now. And I do think Santini is better than Mueller as of now and is capable of being a #5 with room to break into a top 4 spot by next years end.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

look, I have defended MUeller plenty on here and he should definitely be in the lineup right now

but if we had Smith and another legit top 4 D, to go along with the guys we already have, I just don't really see a place for him longterm

 

[devilsblood]

I think Smith is very well rounded, can be effective in all 3 zones.

But you can bet there will be a break in period for a smallish 19 year old, and that will be very evident in the defensive zone.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

look, I have defended MUeller plenty on here and he should definitely be in the lineup right now

but if we had Smith and another legit top 4 D, to go along with the guys we already have, I just don't really see a place for him longterm

I happened to make a thread on the Trade board for it but...

I think we should look into moving one of Butcher or Severson. Vatanen will and should be re-signed and Smith demands a spot (I doubt he is press-boxed for the year unless he is THAT bad). I also dont see Greene going anywhere nor should he, amazing PKer who is a vet for the backend and has only one yeat left. Also a lifer here and deserves the respect of playing it out because I dont see anyone doing better in his role for the third pair next year.

We can get some pretty major assets for one of Severson and Butcher, and we dont lose any transition game or offense because of it. This may be our first chance to pull a Nashville-esque move and use one of our budding young defenseman as a chance to gain assets where we dont have as many immediate options for replacement

 

[devilsblood]

look, I have defended MUeller plenty on here and he should definitely be in the lineup right now

but if we had Smith and another legit top 4 D, to go along with the guys we already have, I just don't really see a place for him longterm

Agree. Basic thought process of "If he's riding the bench now, we can't count on him to be playing an important role next season".

Even if we think he should be playing now.

 

[Nubmer6]

"stay at home" DMen are becoming a thing of the past

DMen have to be able to skate. Getting the puck out of the zone quickly/efficiently is more important than being a hulking stay at home guy,

Perhaps that;s the wrong term, but when *I* say stay at home defenseman, it's a catch-all for defensive minded defensemen. I neither Mueller and Santini are the old school typical lump in front of the net. They're both mobile and can pass. With some more time and experience, their first pass out of the zone will be better.

I want at least 2 defensemen that I feel comfortable with on the PK. I'm not sure I'd be happy with any of the offensive minded ones there.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Agree. Basic thought process of "If he's riding the bench now, we can't count on him to be playing an important role next season".

Even if we think he should be playing now.

To be fair, this happened with Santini last year and look hows hes doing now...

I posted it above but I think its a tactic Hynes uses. Gets guys to want it more and it holds them accountable in the sense that their position is always up for grabs, and they need to do everything they can to get it back; and sometimes that requires patience and showing you can do it in the meantime.

I feel safe saying one of Santini or Mueller will be here when were a playoff team. If im wrong then I think that means we end up with a real good defense!

 

[devilsblood]

We can get some pretty major assets for one of Severson and Butcher, and we dont lose any transition game or offense because of it. This may be our first chance to pull a Nashville-esque move and use one of our budding young defenseman as a chance to gain assets where we dont have as many immediate options for replacement

I like the Nashville comparison.

People dislike the idea of trading Butcher(who, because of Smith it makes more sense to trade then Sev's) but if we could get a young legit 2c back in return?

 

[Nubmer6]

Also, I wouldn't count our chickens before they hatch. Smith, Walsh, Davies et. al. look promising, but They're still playing 2 levels below the NHL We've seen plenty of players (I'm looking at you JQ) who excel at the AHL level but can't do squat in the NHL I'm obviously pulling for them, but they're not locks for the big club. Just remember what we thought of Larsson/Merill/Gelinas/etc.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Also, I wouldn't count our chickens before they hatch. Smith, Walsh, Davies et. al. look promising, but They're still playing 2 levels below the NHL We've seen plenty of players (I'm looking at you JQ) who excel at the AHL level but can't do squat in the NHL I'm obviously pulling for them, but they're not locks for the big club. Just remember what we thought of Larsson/Merill/Gelinas/etc.

I only talk about Smith this way because he HAS to be on the roster. He is ineligible for the AHL and I dont see him as a guy you put in the press-box for an extended amount of time unless he starts hot and ends up terribly cold. And juniors? Fagedaboutit

Sometimes as a GM you need to take slight risks like assuming Smith can play at a minimum of a bottom pair level in the big league. I think we should take that position with how laidback we have been this last year or so.

 

[MichaelJ]

look, I have defended MUeller plenty on here and he should definitely be in the lineup right now

but if we had Smith and another legit top 4 D, to go along with the guys we already have, I just don't really see a place for him longterm

I agree, that’s why I’d like to see him get more ice time now. Get something from him and hopefully build some trade value

 

[devilsblood]

"stay at home" DMen are becoming a thing of the past

DMen have to be able to skate. Getting the puck out of the zone quickly/efficiently is more important than being a hulking stay at home guy,

I think stay at home d-men have a much lesser role then they once did, but they still have a role.

Now they are not as lumbering as they once were, they are not goon types anymore, but as long as a team has to play on the PK, or defend leads late in games, you will see these types of players in the league.

 

[Nubmer6]

I only talk about Smith this way because he HAS to be on the roster. He is ineligible for the AHL and I dont see him as a guy you put in the press-box for an extended amount of time unless he starts hot and ends up terribly cold. And juniors? Fagedaboutit

Sometimes as a GM you need to take slight risks like assuming Smith can play at a minimum of a bottom pair level in the big league. I think we should take that position with how laidback we have been this last year or so.

I have no doubt Smith us up next year barring a bad injury. I was really more questioning whether we had room for Mueller or Santini years down the road, or if Smith/Walsh/Davies completely pushes them off the team.

 

[HenriquesJawLine]

This is for discussing the on ice product.

No this is actually a draft revisionist history thread with some on ice product talk mixed in

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think Smith is very well rounded, can be effective in all 3 zones.

But you can bet there will be a break in period for a smallish 19 year old, and that will be very evident in the defensive zone.

100%. I am high as hell on the kid, but if we are relying on him as a rookie to save this defense then we have some major issues again next year.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

What would yall package for Doughty?

 

[My3Sons]

What would yall package for Doughty?

Wouldn’t LA want him during s rebuild to lead the team?