Development of Russians in CHL v KHL

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

you can not compare 90th to today. Russian hockey was one big chaos at the time, not good league in Russia

Ya, I get it...we can't compare ANY player who's been successful coming over to North America...only the ones are are unsuccessful.

 

[Striiker]

you can not compare 90th to today. Russian hockey was one big chaos at the time, not good league in Russia

Still isn't.

 

[Fantomas]

It's the second best hockey league in the world.

 

[gwh]

Sergei Fedorov, GM of CSKA, has said at World Hockey Forum: "Russian players should stay at home until 24-25 years to develop. So players should go to NHL as fully developed players. Just going to NHL to try the luck is not correct attitude. You should go to NHL for certain position in main team"

For high skill level star forwards: Yes. Better money too.

For low skill level 5'10'' forwards: Yes, they never make NHL anyway.

For low skill level large forwards: Maybe not. Good Russian trained grinders are not many.

For defensemen: Just no. Russian NHL D is extremely rare. Lots of the allstar KHL D are mobile mid size AHL dropouts.

For goalies: No opinion. Money for KHL keeper career is better than NHL backup/AHL elevator.

 

[vorky]

Arkady Rotenberg is boss of Russian Hockey Federation (FHR)

 

[Caser]

Hysteria reaction at the "hockey family advisor" Alvis Kalnins' twitter makes me think that it might be something good indeed.

About the topic, stuff related to the agents is a mess and something needs to be done about that (not only in junior hockey), I'd suggest to start with the financial things - a lot of talks indicate that there might be some under-the-table money flows hidden somewhere.

 

[vorky]

Hysteria reaction at the "hockey family advisor" Alvis Kalnins' twitter makes me think that it might be something good indeed.

About the topic, stuff related to the agents is a mess and something needs to be done about that (not only in junior hockey), I'd suggest to start with the financial things - a lot of talks indicate that there might be some under-the-table money flows hidden somewhere.

Does IIHF regulate agents bussiness somehow?? As I know Czech hockey federation started to regulate (more strict) agents in kids hockey at the end of last year because there were cases when "anybody" could sell prospects to clubs. No licence, nothing.

GM of Energie Karlovy Vary for czech media

Majority of them are not agents, but bandits! They are able to take players anywhere without caring about player´s future. Many of them have never played hockey, are not lawyers. They offer you (if I get it by you he means GMs) a contract and you will laugh for five minutes because of grammar mistakes/typos in the contract. We have maximum of five good agents in Czech rep, rest are nothing more than mexican bandits who are milking our (clubs) money.

 

[Acallabeth]

Very true words. If the authorities don't try to impose some ridiculous rules like contracts tying the players to their teams up to 28 years old, this will eventually become a consensus. Players like Kaprizov will make a significant impact as well, there's barely a way imaginable for a 5'9 player who didn't have some standout talent at 17 to become as good as Kirill has in te CHL. With all its flaws, the KHL system is easily the way to go.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

On the issue of KHL vs CHL for development. IMO if the player is exceptional , why not go the KHL route. Its similar to arguments being made for exceptional players in the CHL being forced back into junior when they are ready for the AHL.

For less advanced developed players maybe the CHL is better than the MHL?

 

[Acallabeth]

Hehehe, finally I found this old thread... moar in-depth analysis coming, along with familiar faces discussing Provorov, Sergachyov, Rubtsov, Svechnikov, Glotov, Kravtsov and other players - from stars to busts! Stay tuned!

 

[vorky]

Kovalenko, the KHLPTU Head: I recommend Russian prospects to move to America/Canada when are ready like Kuzentsov, Panarin, Tarasenko. Go to NHL as KHL star. In 90% cases, prospects moving to America/Canada too early (to play major juniors), have made a mistake.

Андрей Коваленко: «КХЛ, Ярославль, Квартальнов - эти три фактора определили выбор сына» | russia-hockey.ru

 

[Atas2000]

Hehehe, finally I found this old thread... moar in-depth analysis coming, along with familiar faces discussing Provorov, Sergachyov, Rubtsov, Svechnikov, Glotov, Kravtsov and other players - from stars to busts! Stay tuned!

Why are you so thoroughly avoiding to post the list of obvious failures? Too long?

 

[Mrb1p]

Why are you so thoroughly avoiding to post the list of obvious failures? Too long?

The list of failure is longer because not a lot of players make it to the NHL, not because theyre russians in the CHL.

 

[Atas2000]

The list of failure is longer because not a lot of players make it to the NHL, not because theyre russians in the CHL.

How about a list of touted prospects selected by NHL scouts and GMs? Are those idiots? I am not talking about 5th rounders... like Kaprizov(lol). Where's Yakupov aka 1OA?

CHL is cancer to russian players, especially for those who leave Russia at 17. It's a statistical fact and you are still fighting it.

I've just watched a couple of KHL pre-season games. There were bunches of those guys. Most of them will even struggle to make a KHL roster.

 

[Frk It]

CHL is cancer to russian players, especially for those who leave Russia at 17. It's a statistical fact and you are still fighting it.

Me waiting to watch Andrei Svechnikov tear it up this year...

 

[Mrb1p]

How about a lost of touted prospects selected by NHL scouts and GMs? Are those idiots? I am not talking about 5th rounders... like Kaprizov(lol). Where's Yakupov aka 1OA?

CHL is cancer to russian players, especially for those who leave Russia at 17. It's a statistical fact and you are still fighting it.

Yakupov was killed by the Oilers, not by the CHL.

The fact is, there's more players that do not make it than players that do make it, so obviously the statistics make it look bad, what about players that are drafted out of the KHL ? The numbers are going to end up similar.

It's true for swedish kids too, or Finns, or Swiss, etc. The list of player that makes it is always going to be shorter than the list of player that doesn't.

 

[Frk It]

Yakupov was killed by the Oilers, not by the CHL.

The fact is, there's more players that do not make it than players that do make it, so obviously the statistics make it look bad, what about players that are drafted out of the KHL ? The numbers are going to end up similar.

It's true for swedish kids too, or Finns, or Swiss, etc. The list of player that makes it is always going to be shorter than the list of player that doesn't.

And because up until recently, the better Russians have chosen to stay in Russia.

But don't worry -- Provorov, Sergachev, Kucherov, and Svechnikov are changing that. And as they succeed more will follow.

Either path is viable, it just depends on the prospect.

 

[Mrb1p]

And because up until recently, the better Russians have chosen to stay in Russia.

But don't worry -- Provorov, Sergachev, Kucherov, and Svechnikov are changing that. And as they succeed more will follow.

Either path is viable, it just depends on the prospect.

Oh, I already debated these players, don't worry, the agenda is set.

Sergachev and Provorov are Dmen, so it doesn't apply to them.
Kucherov played only one season in the CHL, it doesn't apply to him.
Svechnikov has not achieved anything yet, so it doesn't apply to him.

 

[member 157595]

This is going to depend on a huge variety of factors, including which Russian and CHL organizations hold a player's rights.

If a Russian is given a good development environment, with minutes in all situations and a real opportunity to succeed, in my opinion it's better to stay in Russia until you're ready to make an impact in the NHL. The KHL is the second best league on Earth and if the cards are right you play there until you're ready to go. Russia to NA is a huge lifestyle change, and rushing it when you don't need to do so is risky.

However, if you're stuck on an organization that doesn't let you play even if you're ready, yet makes you sit on a bench learning nothing, you may want to consider North America especially if you're a defenseman. Young kids need to play, even if they need to be sent down to do so.

 

[vorky]

As recent history showed, if you are good enough, you can play in the KHL until 25-27 and then go to the NHL. No problem, the NHL club will wait for you. No need to leave Russia early. Thank God, guys like Sorokin, Kaprizov, Kovalenko, Denisenko, Kravtsov to name a few have some brain.... which can not be said about those going to the CHL/the USHL. Kabanov says hello.

 

[Atas2000]

Me waiting to watch Andrei Svechnikov tear it up this year...

LOL You never seem to get it. Svechnikov already regressed in NA. What do I care if he becomes a 60-70pts star? He was projected to be the next Malkin at least.

 

[Frk It]

LOL You never seem to get it. Svechnikov already regressed in NA. What do I care if he becomes a 60-70pts star? He was projected to be the next Malkin at least.

It's just a never-ending game of moving the goalposts with you.

He could be a PPG guy in the NHL, and he would have been Malkin had he stayed in Russia. He could become Malkin in the NHL, and he would have became Gretzky if he stayed in Russia.

Regressed by putting up the best U17 season EVER in the USHL and then putting up a goals/game rate that matched up with Tavares and Stamkos in the OHL? No, he did not regress. He continued to develop phenomenally well in North America.

 

[member 157595]

LOL You never seem to get it. Svechnikov already regressed in NA. What do I care if he becomes a 60-70pts star? He was projected to be the next Malkin at least.

Malkin is at worst the 3rd best player in the world over the past decade and will make the HOF the first year he is eligible. When he's on and pissed off, he's completely 100% unstoppable.

Perhaps I'm unaware, but who said Svechnikov would be the next Malkin?

 

[Atas2000]

However, if you're stuck on an organization that doesn't let you play even if you're ready, yet makes you sit on a bench learning nothing, you may want to consider North America especially if you're a defenseman. Young kids need to play, even if they need to be sent down to do so.

Who says that doesn't happen to them in NA? Most of the time that is exactly the same pattern on both sides of the pond. There are narratives about Russia people in NA want to believe(I have no other explanation). But how about reality? You want to make the big team you have to earn it. That means playing limited minutes or being sent down. Anywhere in the world.

Btw by playing in the CHL in their draft year Russians block their own path to the AHL. That is utter stupidity.

And except for the languafe wtf is that huge difference in lifestyle? Sometimes I have to think Americams live on the Moon or something.

 

[Atas2000]

It's just a never-ending game of moving the goalposts with you.

He could be a PPG guy in the NHL, and he would have been Malkin had he stayed in Russia. He could become Malkin in the NHL, and he would have became Gretzky if he stayed in Russia.

Regressed by putting up the best U17 season EVER in the USHL and then putting up a goals/game rate that matched up with Tavares and Stamkos? No, he did not regress. He continued to develop phenomenally well in North America.

Tell me more about a player I follow since he was 15. You are a great storyteller.