Development of Russians in CHL v KHL

[Kshahdoo]

That is crazy. Legislation to force your athletes to stay in their country... What happens if they just leave anyways? Jail time?

Lol, do you know, that it's the state and clubs, who pay for kids, so they can play hockey, while in America and Canada it's parents, who pay?

So what do we have? Taxpayers and Russian clubs pay money, and then CHL and NHL get all the benefits. It's a wrong system. Do you as parents want your kid go to NA? No problems, pay back all the money, tha was spent on your kid, and say good bye to this terrible oppressive country.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Oh really? Go to kidshockey.ru and do some reading then. Hockey is very expensive sport and parents spend a lot of money to develop their kids, from additional exclusive trainings to going to all kinds of training camps in America and Europe. Of course, our club systems spend money on our talents too but in order to be noticed by them you need to work really hard and spend money yourself.

P.S. It's funny to read you, guys. One talking nonsense about Russian mentality and "giving back to community" (what community?), like hell it's not individualistic, it's not Soviet Union anymore. Another one talking about some delusional made up BS about jails and electric chairs, stereotypes are such stereotypes.

Nah, it depends on what school your kid in. The best schools are usually totally free. Of course, they usually take only the best kids. Or they think they take the best kids.

Learn Panarin's story. They didn't need him in Chelyabinsk so he had to move to Chekhov to play for Vityaz team. Of course, he (or his grandpa) paid nothing for this.

 

[KarIgo87]

Just like ours about Western people I guess, only a bit more educated one.

Yes of course the Russian view of Westerners is much more accurate and educated.

typical

Of course we know about Western world more than Westerners about ours. Much more Russians go to Europe and America than otherwise. Also movies and other pop-culture give us the idea about you and more insight into your lifestyle as well. Not without stereotypes obviously but still. What do you know about Russia from Russian movies? I hear they in the Western festivals praise only those that picture our country as grey, ruined, drunk and with permanent depression which suits their view on Russia very well.

Nah, it depends on what school your kid in. The best schools are usually totally free. Of course, they usually take only the best kids. Or they think they take the best kids.

Learn Panarin's story. They didn't need him in Chelyabinsk so he had to move to Chekhov to play for Vityaz team. Of course, he (or his grandpa) paid nothing for this.

Sure, and those kids who aren't needed have to go to other schools, move to other towns, go to every other training camp and their parents need to pay for all this. The best kids maybe get a lot for free, but not since 10 years age. Also all hockey expenses in US/Canada are relatively less than in Russia due to more availability and more choice. Even the best kids in Russia go to additional trainings (which are not free, to improve skating for example or other skills) in order to stay the best.

 

[Kshahdoo]

typical

Of course we know about Western world more than Westerners about ours. Much more Russians go to Europe and America than otherwise. Also movies and other pop-culture give us the idea about you and more insight into your lifestyle as well. Not without stereotypes obviously but still. What do you know about Russia from Russian movies? I hear they in the Western festivals praise only those that picture our country as grey, ruined, drunk and with permanent depression which suits their view on Russia very well.





Sure, and those kids who aren't needed have to go to other schools, move to other towns, go to every other training camp and their parents need to pay for all this. The best kids maybe get a lot for free, but not since 10 years age. Also all hockey expenses in US/Canada are relatively less than in Russia due to more availability and more choice. Even the best kids in Russia go to additional trainings (which are not free, to improve skating for example or other skills) in order to stay the best.

There was an article about hockey school prices in Moscow on Championat.com not long ago, and people said in comments that they paid nothing since their kids were 6. Still I doubt you have a lot of chances to become a pro-player in those private schools. The best schools are municipal and KHL teams' ones.

Andrey Svechnikov moved from Olimpiets Balashikha to Ak Bars at age 10. He played there for 6 years, I bet his parents didn't pay a cent for all training and travels to other cities and countries. And now that USHL team is earning money on him. It's a great practice for NA leagues, but not that great for Russian hockey.

 

[vorky]

People need to realize that (unlike in North America) players and families get a financial free ride in Russia. Once a kid turns 10 years old, his family pays nothing in development costs. $0.

My solution:
If a kid wants to enter into a hockey school (and receive all the financial benefits), he (his family) needs to sign a long-term contract stipulating he will stay in the Russian development system for X amount of years.
If, later on, the player (or family) decide he is better off developing elsewhere, it's fine..they can go abroad. However in order to terminate the contract, player (family) must reimburse the hockey school all accrued development costs.

Fair deal on both sides.

Chernyshenko proposed this model. KHL abandoned draft procedure and has been preparing new strategy of development. I guess this strategy will cover "junior problem" as well. We have to wait.

 

[Daximus]

typical

Of course we know about Western world more than Westerners about ours. Much more Russians go to Europe and America than otherwise. Also movies and other pop-culture give us the idea about you and more insight into your lifestyle as well. Not without stereotypes obviously but still. What do you know about Russia from Russian movies? I hear they in the Western festivals praise only those that picture our country as grey, ruined, drunk and with permanent depression which suits their view on Russia very well.

I actually picture Russia a lot like Canada but you guys just drink more Vodka and we drink more beer. We both put up with winter, we both love hockey. The dreary picture of Russia is usually from American anti-communist movies, war movies, horror flicks and spy movies. American culture depicts Russia as grey, ruined and drunk. Canadian culture really doesn't depict Russia as anything because our film industry is terrible and lacks funding. Don Cherry doesn't speak for all of us, he's a racist idiot. Most of us are interested in Russian and Soviet culture and very inviting of Russians to Canada. The only way for our hockey players to become the best that they can be is to play the best. Which is why we invite players from all over the world to play in the CHL. It's the only way it can be the best producer of hockey talent in the world.

I actually love the Russian system, how you start so early in a school and work your way up. It intrigues me. Here in Canada everything is structured much differently. The way kids are developed and the attitudes, fundamentals and styles change from Province to Province. The way kids are developed in British Columbia is much different than they way kids are developed in Saskatchewan. And the ideals change regionally, and even from city to city of which path to take to the NHL. Kids in BC are far more likely to go to Hockey Prep Schools and then go the BCHL route to the NCAA. Whereas kids in Ontario almost exclusively go the OHL route out of Midget programs. The WHL, OHL and QJMHL develop kids so differently in each league and team.

 

[vorky]

I heard some bad stories about agents, especially those from NA. They take a prospect to NA junior leagues and dont care about them anymore. When a player has problems, agents dont care, dont listen to them, nothing.

 

[Fantomas]

One talking nonsense about Russian mentality and "giving back to community" (what community?), like hell it's not individualistic, it's not Soviet Union anymore.

Pretty sure my "nonsense" is the basis for all the talks surrounding this proposed legislation. Besides if the Russian system was truly individualistic as you claim it would be fully corporate, which it isn't.

 

[Fantomas]

Lol, do you know, that it's the state and clubs, who pay for kids, so they can play hockey, while in America and Canada it's parents, who pay?

So what do we have? Taxpayers and Russian clubs pay money, and then CHL and NHL get all the benefits. It's a wrong system. Do you as parents want your kid go to NA? No problems, pay back all the money, tha was spent on your kid, and say good bye to this terrible oppressive country.

They won't pay back the money though. They will leave, then good luck dragging them through the courts.

 

[Kshahdoo]

They won't pay back the money though. They will leave, then good luck dragging them through the courts.

With signed contracts and other obligations it's going to be easier.

 

[Fantomas]

I just don't think this is the way to go because it does not solve the core problem.

If the player becomes a star in the NHL then his team could pay those costs, which means that high-talent players could still leave. It's just another transfer agreement-type thing, but harder to enforce.

If the player does not become a star (let's say a middle of the road player, an AHLer) then it's simply dickish to demand that he pay the money back. It's not humane.

 

[vorky]

Yuen interview for KHL website.

- Winnipeg drafted you in 2011. Were you at the ceremony?
“Yes, I was in Minnesota, and I was lucky enough to attend and get drafted.”



- You were drafted in the fourth round at 119. Did you expect this, or did you think you’d been under-rated?

“I don't think it matters. Second round, fifth round – what's the difference? I was just happy to be selected.”

I wish all russian prospects would be such clever as this young guy.

 

[wings5]

Yuen interview for KHL website.



I wish all russian prospects would be such clever as this young guy.

What do you expect? He's Asian.

 

[93LEAFS]

Bumped due to the Rubtsov rumors.

 

[Daximus]

Bumped due to the Rubtsov rumors.

Not getting the playing time he wants is what I heard.

 

[gwh]

Rubtsov should be blowing up the MHL at this point. Also 0+0 in KHL.

Kaprisov went to KHL last year (same age as Rubtsov) 4 games 7+3.

Current 2 point leaders doing more than 2 points per game. Rubtsov is 20th best PPG scorer out of MHL players with 10+ games.

-> Player looks like an egg.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah crazy Rubtsov isn't putting up points in the KHL getting <10 min per game on the fourth line.

 

[93LEAFS]

Not getting the playing time he wants is what I heard.

Makes sense. A late Leafs draft pick you are probably familiar with due to following the WHL Bobylev went back to Victoria due to this. I just bumped this, so one people could see the arguments already and two, so Rubtsov's thread didn't just become a repeat of this.

 

[Appleyard]

There is a difference though...

Rubtsov is on Vityazi when in the MHL.

Rubtsov is one point off the Vityazi point lead despite playing in half of their games.

They are not an awful team by any means... but they play like the Devils in the DPE.

Having watched several of the games it was quite obvious he was too good for the MHL. His speed and skill there was extremely obvious... but he was not exactly given much to work with in terms of system or offensive talent around him.


Ideally he should be in the VHL. He is fast enough and smart enough to play KHL... but he gets bullied physically and is poor on the dot.

But seems like Vityaz have had some kind of breakdown in relations with VHL affiliate Tver. They used them loads last year... but this year when they have sent guys down, even established KHLers, they have been buried on the 3rd and 4th lines despite being on paper higher calibre guys than those playing ahead of them. They have been healthy scratching guys like Abdullin and Korolyov, played Dostoinov, Tsyganov and Shvets-Rogovoy in the bottom six when they were down there too.

 

[Striiker]

This is the third time he's been rumored to be coming over but the first two were wrong and I'm not buying this one till he's here.

No need to panic or write his obituary just yet.

 

[malkinfan]

At his current level hes no where near ready to play in top 9 minutes consistently in Vityaz. Their offense is too strong this year and hes not even dominating juniors. At best he could crack the top 9 of a VHL squad. Not sure why he isnt there yet, not like theres any rush. I doubt he comes over to NA.

 

[BillDineen]

Yeah crazy Rubtsov isn't putting up points in the KHL getting <10 min per game on the fourth line.

This is optimal for development. He has time between shifts to video review his last shift thoroughly.

 

[snipes]

Rubstov should come over and play in the WHL and develop into the type of tough and skilled forward Philly fans like.

The WHL did perfectly fine developing Provorov, he played in the best Junior league in the world at developing NHL Dmen. He produced last season one of the best seasons I've seen out of a WHL Dman in years.

 

[gwh]

This is optimal for development. He has time between shifts to video review his last shift thoroughly.

Considering this kid went on the 1st round due to couple good games in one Canada tournament...

Maybe wasting picks on underscouted talent is foolish? Just an idea.

 

[snipes]

Russian D men develop better in Canada. Sergachev and Provorov are the two best Russian D prospects to come along in years, both spent time in the CHL.

Alexander Alexeyev, Sergei Zborovsky, Artem Minulin, and Dmitriy Zaitsev are all developing into excellent young D men playing on the prairies in Western Canada. You're welcome, I have no doubt you guys will gladly take these D men when they prove to be miles ahead of D men developed in Russia for your National Team in the future.

In terms of the "graveyard" comments, what about Ziyat Paigin? What the hell is going on with him over there? Ak Bars Kazan is destroying this prospect of ours. We need to get a plane over there and get him to Canada to play for the Oilers.