Confirmed with Link: Derek Grant obtained from Anaheim for Criscuolo + 4th

[BleedOrange]

Fine with the two trades gives us a little sandpaper which I think is a good thing

 

[deadhead]

Niskanen is a great example of the lasting power of puck skills and hockey sense after physical tools are on the decline. He’d be close to cooked at this stage of his career if the former were average. But they’re not, and he’s a big contributor this season. But it isn’t with his skating.

Same with Braun, watch his stick work on defense, very subtle but he's constantly breaking up plays.

And I do think the mentor aspect of adding those two was important, not important enough to add them if they couldn't play, but valuable on a team with a lot of inexperienced defensemen.

 

[landsbergfan]

Think it needs to be said...Derek Grant is kinda ugly

 

[Irvdog13]

Fine with the two trades gives us a little sandpaper which I think is a good thing

Playoffs are a different season and for all intents and purposes it's playoff season now. Depth will be critical.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Think it needs to be said...Derek Grant is kinda ugly

 

[Nabrules]

This trade looks like a steal after seeing what Tampa paid for Goodrow

 

[freakydallas13]

This trade looks like a steal after seeing what Tampa paid for Goodrow

Getting a hernia seems like a steal compared to what TB paid for Goodrow.

 

[OzFlyers]

They really love this guy on the Ducks board! Sounds like we got a great add.

 

[Elvs]

What line did he play on for you fellas.

Edit: Seems like the 4th line pretty consistently judging by a number of GDT I looked at. Which doesn't help a possible "ok maybe he was overmatched on 3rd line duty" type thing.

What's funny is that the fancy stats that us fancy stat people look at show a really, really poor player. Though you are right in him not turning the puck over, only credited with 10 giveaways in 42 games. But you know how iffy those giveaway/takeaway counting stats are

The Ducks 4th line is the Ducks checking line, facing tough opponents with heavy defensive zone starts. When you're starting 70% of your shifts in the defensive zone, against 1st or 2nd line opponents, while playing with the likes of Carter Rowney and Nic Deslauriers, what kind of corsi numbers do you think should be expected? Name a 4th line center that would do much better in those kind of circumstances while also chipping in as much offensively as Grant's done this year.

 

[Appleyard]

Fine with Grant...

he is a solid player, and yeh, while underlying stats look bad has been solid there over last two seasons and his line has been getting some of worst starts in league, and he plays with AHLers.

 

[Tripod]

Yeah Ducks fans have said repeatedly that their 4th line didn't get easy minutes. They got the hard matchups so other lines didn't have to. It was used to help shelter their kids like Steel.

So imagine our 4th line this year or in years past, being the FIRST option to go against top line. Not pretty.

To win in the playoffs, you will face teams that you have to out skill. You will also face teams that you have to out grind. We have that now if we need it. And yes, some with point to 1-2 games beating bigger teams. But it's different in a 7 game series.

And once again it needs to be said, we WILL have injuries. Right now with everyone healthy besides the obvious 2, we have 12 forwards up with Farabee on deck. Now we don't HAVE to have a guy play banged up. We can replace them.

Let's see what chemistry these guys have and for Grant if the easier matchups AND better teammates, offset the high S% that has been noted. But for now, we have added 2 bigger C MEN who can PK and win FO's. We have more roster options when it comes to being able to adjust.

Just win.

 

[mr figgles]

The Ducks 4th line is the Ducks checking line, facing tough opponents with heavy defensive zone starts. When you're starting 70% of your shifts in the defensive zone, against 1st or 2nd line opponents, while playing with the likes of Carter Rowney and Nic Deslauriers, what kind of corsi numbers do you think should be expected? Name a 4th line center that would do much better in those kind of circumstances while also chipping in as much offensively as Grant's done this year.

Why consider how a player is used, who he plays with/against, and what kind systems his team uses, when you can use missed and blocked shots against while he is on the ice to determine his worth?

 

[Bob Clarke Fan Club]

Niskanen is a great example of the lasting power of puck skills and hockey sense after physical tools are on the decline. He’d be close to cooked at this stage of his career if the former were average. But they’re not, and he’s a big contributor this season. But it isn’t with his skating.

Being a nasty MF out there helps immensely.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

What line did he play on for you fellas.

Edit: Seems like the 4th line pretty consistently judging by a number of GDT I looked at. Which doesn't help a possible "ok maybe he was overmatched on 3rd line duty" type thing.

What's funny is that the fancy stats that us fancy stat people look at show a really, really poor player. Though you are right in him not turning the puck over, only credited with 10 giveaways in 42 games. But you know how iffy those giveaway/takeaway counting stats are

Lazy analysis. And again makes me doubt whether you played any level of hockey whatsoever.

 

[DancingPanther]

Lazy analysis. And again makes me doubt whether you played any level of hockey whatsoever.

Go look at my other posts if you want the numbers. I've typed them out plenty of times

Lazy is "have you even played bro"

 

[Young Sandwich]

I'm interested in Grant, I think he might mesh well with this team.

Right or wrong, I think Fletcher felt like Grant could bring everything that Farabee currently does to this roster and do so in a bigger body that's tougher to play against. @JojoTheWhale always talks about finding value in the margins. I truly feel that this is Chuck's way of tickling those margins. Again, right or wrong, at least he's trying to make this team better (in his eyes) for a playoff run.

Personally I'd like Farabee to get stretch drive/playoff experience now, which is still a possibility, but Chuck just threw a slew of extra hurdles in front of him.

 

[FLYguy3911]

It definitely seems like Fletcher and his team have a model that sees value in guys that public models not only dislike, but view as below replacement level (possibly scary with a Hagg decision looming). It's worked out fine with Braun but Braun spent most of the year with our 3 best defensemen. That's unlikely to be the case with these two acquisitions. I just don't think its wise to go to that well too many times. Especially guys in the non "skilled" bucket. Those types historically don't change much over time.

This is better than the Pageau alternative, so I am happy about that.

 

[VladDrag]

Lazy analysis. And again makes me doubt whether you played any level of hockey whatsoever.

Out of curiosity, what was the highest level you played at?

 

[deadhead]

Just win.

The phrase is "just win baby"

Just win baby! | Pro Football Hall of Fame Official Site

 

[bennysflyers16]

And the best part of yesterday, Thompson new blouse is #44

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Right or wrong, I think Fletcher felt like Grant could bring everything that Farabee currently does to this roster and do so in a bigger body that's tougher to play against. @JojoTheWhale always talks about finding value in the margins. I truly feel that this is Chuck's way of tickling those margins. Again, right or wrong, at least he's trying to make this team better (in his eyes) for a playoff run.

Sure, there's a lot of context needed to be added to Grant. He's had legitimately tough usage. The ZS are indeed skewed, but the biggest part of this by far is his Linemates. He did get a good bunch of Minutes with Lindholm and/or Fowler which helps, but he's also been stapled to Nick Deslauriers. That's a serious drag on anyone.

At this point, possession models are mostly low-hanging fruit. For as much fun as some people like to poke at them, this is how most NHL teams are increasingly making decisions. Fletcher is not an idiot. I don't believe that the guy who brought Andrew Thomas and Alex Mandrycky (war-on-ice.com founders) into the NHL is completely unaware of what should be base level knowledge by now. Grant is historically a mild net positive possession player who happened to hit terrible usage and a Shooting heater this year. Betting on him to turn his possession metrics around makes complete sense. Hell, since HC was kind enough to record the STH Q&A for us, we got to hear Fletcher politely guiding someone away from Corsi and toward xGF models for player evaluation. He's aware and he uses their in-house version frequently. It will lead them to different conclusions and we should allow some wiggle room here because the margins you think other teams don't have are where you should be looking.

The issue comes in when people point to 14 Goals as proof of expectations going forward. He scored those Goals in the past. They can be responsibly used descriptively. They are not in any way predictive when done in the manner that he's gone about getting them. This isn't exclusive to Derek Grant or Robert Hagg or anyone else. It's often coaches who don't understand and/or leverage this area well. I'm sure they each have moderate input on the other's decisions, but I think it's reasonable to assert that it was Fletcher's call to send Farabee down and it will be Vigneault's call who is on Hayes' wing tonight. If it's JVR, I dislike the way they've gone about these things a little less. If it's Grant, it fits a past concerning Vigneault pattern and worries me more.

I also have major problems with "well (other team's) fans think X" because that is overwhelmingly quoted when the opinions are positive and dismissed when they're negative. Accept both or accept none. I'm fine with either.

 

[1865]

I like this move. He's the type you need for a run, all being well. Thompson is reasonable enough but Grant seems to be a better player.

 

[Limeyjim]

Same with Braun, watch his stick work on defense, very subtle but he's constantly breaking up plays.

And I do think the mentor aspect of adding those two was important, not important enough to add them if they couldn't play, but valuable on a team with a lot of inexperienced defensemen.

Braun has improved Robert Hagg's game tremendously. I don't understand why so many folks on this board don't seem to like Braun or Hagg, they have both seem to be playing better than Gostisbehere.

 

[Young Sandwich]

I also have major problems with "well (other team's) fans think X" because that is overwhelmingly quoted when the opinions are positive and dismissed when they're negative. Accept both or accept none. I'm fine with either.

I'm in the accept neither camp, unless the overwhelming majority (like 95%+) of a fan base is on one side. Even then it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Some of the fans out there are not nearly authentic enough for me to blindly trust their opinions.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'm interested in Grant, I think he might mesh well with this team.

Right or wrong, I think Fletcher felt like Grant could bring everything that Farabee currently does to this roster and do so in a bigger body that's tougher to play against. @JojoTheWhale always talks about finding value in the margins. I truly feel that this is Chuck's way of tickling those margins. Again, right or wrong, at least he's trying to make this team better (in his eyes) for a playoff run.

Going from 4C in Anaheim to 2LW in Philly seems like an odd move, though.

Maybe he's going to play 3C?

Laughton-Grant-Pitlick
Raffl-Thompson-NAK