Player Discussion David Quinn

[will1066]

Because this comment is asinine. This team is not a team built for Quennville. Moreover, if you're so frustrated with Chytil, as has been argued numerous times, this issue is severely overblown.

Quinn has done a good job getting more from this team than many thought they were capable of. He deserves, at the very least, a full season.

And also, do we need to go after a big-name coach who just hit the market? Almost as bad as trying to land the biggest FA player.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

And also, do we need to go after a big-name coach who just hit the market? Almost as bad as trying to land the biggest FA player.

Those two are not the same at all.

 

[will1066]

Those two are not the same at all.

They're more similar than dissimilar. OP didn't elaborate on why we need to get Quenneville here, other than because of his disdain for Quinn's use of Chytil, so I will assume it's because of Coach Q's pedigree and "big-nameness." The club has specifically stated its strategy going forward, which includes a coach with a player development background, and they went out and got one. They also stated in the strategy that they want to look at non-conventional routes for coaches, and they went out and did that too.

We already have a Coach Q.

 

[romba]

Very happy with Quinn so far. He’s pushed the right buttons and he doles out ice time pretty fairly. Honestly, I’ve seen a few spurts but overall have been underwhelmed by Chytil and am ok with his limited ice time as he learns to acclimate to the NHL as a rookie. Flame away!

 

[True Blue]

We already have a Coach Q.

For this team, yeah. The mentality that he is installing is the right one. A winning one. Still a small sample, but there are players whose play has picked up after scratchings/benchings. Could be that the players are buying in and understanding what is being communicated to them.

 

[True Blue]

We already have a Coach Q.

For this team, yeah they do. He is installing a winning attitude and it seems like the players are responding. Still a very small sample, but I like what I am seeing and what he is saying. Like when he said "Where is it written that you cannot bench players after poor play?".

 

[Levitate]

Very happy with Quinn so far. He’s pushed the right buttons and he doles out ice time pretty fairly. Honestly, I’ve seen a few spurts but overall have been underwhelmed by Chytil and am ok with his limited ice time as he learns to acclimate to the NHL as a rookie. Flame away!

I think I'd rather see Chytil sent down. It feels like he's just a step too slow at the NHL right now. Maybe some confidence work would help that. Basically it seems like he keeps making good plays and then before he can shoot or pass he gets stripped of the puck because there's just a little hesitation or something. Things just look a tad fast for him.
Maybe playing him int he NHL is the better way to overcome that, we'll see. Just not a fan of playing him with McLeod and Letteri

 

[darko]

To me, the same players who were already performing continued to perform at or lower than their previous level of performance. I can't think of a single player who improved due to AV.

Even the ones who showed slight improvement year to year like JT openly criticized AV and never seemed to get significantly better. I will always maintain AV and AV alone inherited a cup ready team and he coached it poorly enough to cost us a cup.

Both Miller and Kreider took their games to another level under AV.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Both Miller and Kreider took their games to another level under AV.

And Fast, Zuccarello, Brassard, Skjei, Hayes. This notion that players don't develop under AV is just ridiculous.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

And Fast, Zuccarello, Brassard, Skjei, Hayes. This notion that players don't develop under AV is just ridiculous.

Both Miller and Kreider took their games to another level under AV.

"another level" used to mean something.
The ONLY player who could even remotely match that definition is Zucc.

What exactly did AV do to make any of them better hockey players? Brassard, hitting his prime, surrounded by a strong locker room and playing with oodles of talent the likes of which Columbus had yet to sniff at, had 2 (JUST TWO) years above his previous career best. What exactly did AV do to improve his offensive or defensive performance? What changes did he make to his game?

Love Brass but I see absolutely zero evidence suggesting that AV helped him moreso than simply being on a much stronger team during his prime helped him.

Kreider? I...is that a joke? He's been seen at as a solid but consistently under-performing player. One who never utilized his power or size to their fullest advantage, his entire career. Happened to be playing under a coach who was known for neutering his team's physical play. AV inherited a 2nd year pro in Kreider who got better as a function of simply going from being a rookie to a vet. AV likely hampered CK's true development perhaps more so than any other player on the team.

Fast had seasons of 14, 30, 21 and 33 points under AV. In what way did AV specifically raise his game? Wasn't Av constantly raked over the coals for playing fast well out of his depth, resulting in the hampering of countless top 6 lines game in and game out? Fast is a good, reliable, hard working player who made it on his own merits and AV did nothing that i can see to make him better.

Hayes was so uncoached by AV that when he came into camp last year AV noted that he was in fantastic shape but that he did that all on his own "We didn't tell him to do that". After setting a 45 point rookie season, hayes regressed from that number twice in the next 3 seasons...including the one where he came into camp in great shape. Hayes' game is now tangibly improved in all facets this year under Quinn. he's improved more in 11 games with Quinn than in 4 seasons with AV.

People are blinded by AV pulling a Jon Gruden and standing there chewing gum like an idiot while someone elses' team rallied around MSL's dying mother to avoid what would have been a 2nd round elimination, on the way to beating a Price=less habs team before choking away multiple 2 goal leads to AV's oh so brilliant turtle strategy.

f*** AV. f*** AV and any positive thing I could ever read, hear, speak, think, or write about AV. f*** the car that refused to get a flat tire on the way to every game he presided over, f*** the gum he chewed, f*** the teeth he used to chew it. I can't find enough ways to express the depth of my distaste for him as a coach.

 

[NY Lito]

"another level" used to mean something.
The ONLY player who could even remotely match that definition is Zucc.

What exactly did AV do to make any of them better hockey players? Brassard, hitting his prime, surrounded by a strong locker room and playing with oodles of talent the likes of which Columbus had yet to sniff at, had 2 (JUST TWO) years above his previous career best. What exactly did AV do to improve his offensive or defensive performance? What changes did he make to his game?

Love Brass but I see absolutely zero evidence suggesting that AV helped him moreso than simply being on a much stronger team during his prime helped him.

Kreider? I...is that a joke? He's been seen at as a solid but consistently under-performing player. One who never utilized his power or size to their fullest advantage, his entire career. Happened to be playing under a coach who was known for neutering his team's physical play. AV inherited a 2nd year pro in Kreider who got better as a function of simply going from being a rookie to a vet. AV likely hampered CK's true development perhaps more so than any other player on the team.

Fast had seasons of 14, 30, 21 and 33 points under AV. In what way did AV specifically raise his game? Wasn't Av constantly raked over the coals for playing fast well out of his depth, resulting in the hampering of countless top 6 lines game in and game out? Fast is a good, reliable, hard working player who made it on his own merits and AV did nothing that i can see to make him better.

Hayes was so uncoached by AV that when he came into camp last year AV noted that he was in fantastic shape but that he did that all on his own "We didn't tell him to do that". After setting a 45 point rookie season, hayes regressed from that number twice in the next 3 seasons...including the one where he came into camp in great shape. Hayes' game is now tangibly improved in all facets this year under Quinn. he's improved more in 11 games with Quinn than in 4 seasons with AV.

People are blinded by AV pulling a Jon Gruden and standing there chewing gum like an idiot while someone elses' team rallied around MSL's dying mother to avoid what would have been a 2nd round elimination, on the way to beating a Price=less habs team before choking away multiple 2 goal leads to AV's oh so brilliant turtle strategy.

**** AV. **** AV and any positive thing I could ever read, hear, speak, think, or write about AV. **** the car that refused to get a flat tire on the way to every game he presided over, **** the gum he chewed, **** the teeth he used to chew it. I can't find enough ways to express the depth of my distaste for him as a coach.

A bit harsh but I agree. I can only imagine how JT and Kreider could have turned out if a guy like Quinn was their coach early on as opposed to AV.

 

[Machinehead]

I've had enough of this clown, fire Quinn and get Quenneville on board.

I'm not gonna yell at you or anything, I'm genuinely curious to hear you elaborate on this opinion.

Let's give the man a chance to speak.

 

[Machinehead]

"another level" used to mean something.
The ONLY player who could even remotely match that definition is Zucc.

What exactly did AV do to make any of them better hockey players? Brassard, hitting his prime, surrounded by a strong locker room and playing with oodles of talent the likes of which Columbus had yet to sniff at, had 2 (JUST TWO) years above his previous career best. What exactly did AV do to improve his offensive or defensive performance? What changes did he make to his game?

Love Brass but I see absolutely zero evidence suggesting that AV helped him moreso than simply being on a much stronger team during his prime helped him.

Kreider? I...is that a joke? He's been seen at as a solid but consistently under-performing player. One who never utilized his power or size to their fullest advantage, his entire career. Happened to be playing under a coach who was known for neutering his team's physical play. AV inherited a 2nd year pro in Kreider who got better as a function of simply going from being a rookie to a vet. AV likely hampered CK's true development perhaps more so than any other player on the team.

Fast had seasons of 14, 30, 21 and 33 points under AV. In what way did AV specifically raise his game? Wasn't Av constantly raked over the coals for playing fast well out of his depth, resulting in the hampering of countless top 6 lines game in and game out? Fast is a good, reliable, hard working player who made it on his own merits and AV did nothing that i can see to make him better.

Hayes was so uncoached by AV that when he came into camp last year AV noted that he was in fantastic shape but that he did that all on his own "We didn't tell him to do that". After setting a 45 point rookie season, hayes regressed from that number twice in the next 3 seasons...including the one where he came into camp in great shape. Hayes' game is now tangibly improved in all facets this year under Quinn. he's improved more in 11 games with Quinn than in 4 seasons with AV.

People are blinded by AV pulling a Jon Gruden and standing there chewing gum like an idiot while someone elses' team rallied around MSL's dying mother to avoid what would have been a 2nd round elimination, on the way to beating a Price=less habs team before choking away multiple 2 goal leads to AV's oh so brilliant turtle strategy.

**** AV. **** AV and any positive thing I could ever read, hear, speak, think, or write about AV. **** the car that refused to get a flat tire on the way to every game he presided over, **** the gum he chewed, **** the teeth he used to chew it. I can't find enough ways to express the depth of my distaste for him as a coach.

I agree with every word of this, especially the last part, and I agree with what you said earlier about AV being the defining factor in us not winning the Cup.

Yes, folks, more than Girardi. You just read that.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I'm not gonna yell at you or anything, I'm genuinely curious to hear you elaborate on this opinion.

Let's give the man a chance to speak.

I was upset and he's mismanaging our top prospects.

 

[McRanger]

Stepan, a playmaking center, had been a Ranger his entire seven-year career, and had appeared in 97 playoff games with the team. But he has four years remaining on his six-year, $39 million contract, with an annual cap hit of $6.5 million, and after July 1 would have been able to invoke a no-trade clause to block any deal. He had 17 goals and 38 assists this season.​

Rangers Trade Derek Stepan to Coyotes Ahead of N.H.L. Draft

Anyway, the analogy like it or not, wasn't my crux. It was the shiny new toy syndrome. I probably could have used an example from every single season, but this was a recent one.

Also, you are definitely showing you don't remember what led to the Stepan trade at all. It was a cap dump because of his cap hit, years remaining , and no trade clause coming in after UFA day. The trade WAS NOT specifically for ADA.

The Rangers liked Stepan, but neither at his new price nor with the direction the team was heading, hence he was dumped [the imbecile word being cap dump] because he was dumped for financial reasons in regard to the cap.

Think of it as if instead of being dumped for being bad he was cap dumped because he was dumped for the cap.

I'm sure the Rangers were concerned about Stepan's cap hit and years, what team isn't closely monitoring their cap? But I would guess they were more concerned about his NTC and not being able to move him once they started the inevitable rebuild, a concern that would remain even if Stepan was on a very team friendly contract. You can't get high 1st rounders from good teams and good players don't want to go to garbage teams, just like teams don't dump 1st line centers and teams don't trade 7th overall picks for dumps. I doubt the trade gets made if the team wasn't on the cusp of a retool/rebuild (one that really started with the Brassard trade, another move where the Rangers shed cap but was not a cap dump) just as I would think the trade could still have happened even if there was no cap.

Basically, your extremely broad view of how this works means any trade with cap implications, which in a cap world is most trades, can be considered cap dumps. I think that view is simplistic and lacking in context.

And the same could be said for "Shiny New Toy Syndrome". Anointing Chad Johnson or Skapski as Hanks heir after a few games is SNTS. Wanting Hank to play more than Weekes wasn't. Sometimes new players are really good, sometimes veterans are really awful. Sometimes its both. People didn't want to see ADA play because he was new, they wanted him to play because he is a good player (as he has shown since he actually has been playing) and because some vets are under performing.

Context matters. And pretending it doesn't exist is, well, imbecilic.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I'm sure the Rangers were concerned about Stepan's cap hit and years, what team isn't closely monitoring their cap? But I would guess they were more concerned about his NTC and not being able to move him once they started the inevitable rebuild, a concern that would remain even if Stepan was on a very team friendly contract. You can't get high 1st rounders from good teams and good players don't want to go to garbage teams, just like teams don't dump 1st line centers and teams don't trade 7th overall picks for dumps. I doubt the trade gets made if the team wasn't on the cusp of a retool/rebuild (one that really started with the Brassard trade, another move where the Rangers shed cap but was not a cap dump) just as I would think the trade could still have happened even if there was no cap.

Basically, your extremely broad view of how this works means any trade with cap implications, which in a cap world is most trades, can be considered cap dumps. I think that view is simplistic and lacking in context.

And the same could be said for "Shiny New Toy Syndrome". Anointing Chad Johnson or Skapski as Hanks heir after a few games is SNTS. Wanting Hank to play more than Weekes wasn't. Sometimes new players are really good, sometimes veterans are really awful. Sometimes its both. People didn't want to see ADA play because he was new, they wanted him to play because he is a good player (as he has shown since he actually has been playing) and because some vets are under performing.

Context matters. And pretending it doesn't exist is, well, imbecilic.

no u

 

[Thordic]

Quenneville would have been great if we could have snagged him with our team a few years ago. He's never built a team before. He was handed a roster in Chicago that was at the tail end of a rebuild. They already had drafted and developed Keith, Hjalmarsson, Sharp, Byfuglien, Bolland, Versteeg, Brouwer, Ladd, etc and had gotten a #3 and #1OA picks back-to-back, gifting them Kane and Toews. They had an embarrassment of riches. And a lot of those players who contributed to their Cups went on to be better players AFTER they left Chicago.

 

[True Blue]

I can't find enough ways to express the depth of my distaste for him as a coach.

We have to talk about your feelings. It is not good to hold things inside. You really should tell us the truth of how you feel.

Seriously, I agree but will give AV credit. The guy is a legit NHL coach and will be employed again. But I could not stand him style as presented on the ice or his system.

It seems, and I understand that it is VERY early on, but Quinn seems to be able to get through to the players, harness them (think ADA's aggression) and have them play better.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

To me, the same players who were already performing continued to perform at or lower than their previous level of performance. I can't think of a single player who improved due to AV.

Hayes

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Hayes

You didn't read the whole thing!

Hayes was so uncoached by AV that when he came into camp last year AV noted that he was in fantastic shape but that he did that all on his own "We didn't tell him to do that". After setting a 45 point rookie season, hayes regressed from that number twice in the next 3 seasons...including the one where he came into camp in great shape. Hayes' game is now tangibly improved in all facets this year under Quinn. he's improved more in 11 games with Quinn than in 4 seasons with AV.
.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

For anyone interested, he touches on Chytil and his ice time pretty early on

 

[EdJovanovski]

Scratched Buchnevich 2 games, comes back with 4pts in the next 3 games
Scratched DeAngelo 2 games, comes back with 4pts in the next 3 games
Scratched Pionk, comes back with 6pts in next 4 games
Scratched Namestnikov, comes back and scores next game
Scratched Shattenkirk, comes back with 2pts in next 2 games
Scratched Smith last 3 games, comes back and scores tonight in his first game back
Lets Chytil out of the 4th line doghouse 3 games ago, and he's scored goals in all 3 games since

It seems like he's really resonating with our players, I'm very impressed in Quinn so far

 

[Nickmo82]

Scratched Buchnevich 2 games, comes back with 4pts in the next 3 games
Scratched DeAngelo 2 games, comes back with 4pts in the next 3 games
Scratched Pionk, comes back with 6pts in next 4 games
Scratched Namestnikov, comes back and scores next game
Scratched Shattenkirk, comes back with 2pts in next 2 games
Scratched Smith last 3 games, comes back and scores tonight in his first game back
Lets Chytil out of the 4th line doghouse 3 games ago, and he's scored goals in all 3 games since

It seems like he's really resonating with our players, I'm very impressed in Quinn so far

Maybe there is an element of the "you scratched me and I got the message" in all of this, but with guys like Buch and Chytil - he was playing them with turds, scratched them, then put them on better lines with better ice time when they got put back in the lineup. I think that has as much, if not more, to do with their improved production post-scratch.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Maybe there is an element of the "you scratched me and I got the message" in all of this, but with guys like Buch and Chytil - he was playing them with turds, scratched them, then put them on better lines with better ice time when they got put back in the lineup. I think that has as much, if not more, to do with their improved production post-scratch.

I'm just going to copy what I put elsewhere


The MSG broadcast team mentioned that his gf is still in high school!!!! Lol holy **** was that so weird to hear.

I voted him as one of the teams top three stars of the game twice early in the season but around game 5 he started to look lost. He stopped making plays, was losing the puck like crazy, hadn't scored and it was clearly getting to him. He also took some VICIOUS shots as a result of having his head down.

Quinn gave him that reduced role. Tons of people started complaining. But look at what it did for him! I strongly suspect that he was given an opportunity to work on several aspects of his game in practice and on the ice. They likely broke down and simplified his role so he could start doing little things right.

Doing those little things boosts confidence. That confidence then clears the cobwebs so now that he's back on a higher line, he can go do his thing.

I suspect the team will start to drop off a bit soon but the development and style of play I'm seeing is fantastic.

 

[trunkslamchest]

I'm just going to copy what I put elsewhere
The MSG broadcast team mentioned that his gf is still in high school!!!! Lol holy **** was that so weird to hear.

yea that creeped me out a bit, then i realized chytil is 19 and was like "well now i feel like shit about myself again."

 

[CasusBelli]

Scratched Buchnevich 2 games, comes back with 4pts in the next 3 games
Scratched DeAngelo 2 games, comes back with 4pts in the next 3 games
Scratched Pionk, comes back with 6pts in next 4 games
Scratched Namestnikov, comes back and scores next game
Scratched Shattenkirk, comes back with 2pts in next 2 games
Scratched Smith last 3 games, comes back and scores tonight in his first game back
Lets Chytil out of the 4th line doghouse 3 games ago, and he's scored goals in all 3 games since

It seems like he's really resonating with our players, I'm very impressed in Quinn so far

Incentivizing; reminds me a bit of the systematic bottom-10% job cuts at some corporations. Definitely lights a fire under people — except 1) we don’t have to worry about players doing unethical or illegal things to keep their jobs, 2) players have an opportunity to improve themselves, and 3) improvement allows a return to grace. Fantastic system.

 

[CasusBelli]

I'm just going to copy what I put elsewhere


The MSG broadcast team mentioned that his gf is still in high school!!!! Lol holy **** was that so weird to hear.

I voted him as one of the teams top three stars of the game twice early in the season but around game 5 he started to look lost. He stopped making plays, was losing the puck like crazy, hadn't scored and it was clearly getting to him. He also took some VICIOUS shots as a result of having his head down.

Quinn gave him that reduced role. Tons of people started complaining. But look at what it did for him! I strongly suspect that he was given an opportunity to work on several aspects of his game in practice and on the ice. They likely broke down and simplified his role so he could start doing little things right.

Doing those little things boosts confidence. That confidence then clears the cobwebs so now that he's back on a higher line, he can go do his thing.

I suspect the team will start to drop off a bit soon but the development and style of play I'm seeing is fantastic.

It’s not just that. Quinn has to use his assets as effectively as possible. So, if a player goes down, Quinn has to find the most suitable replacement. In this case, Chytil turned out to be that guy, which in itself is a great sign. That he thrived under this promotion is just fantastic (and, I’ll admit, pleasantly surprising).

I wonder if we’ll see the same out of Andersson ...

 

[True Blue]

I suspect the team will start to drop off a bit soon but the development and style of play I'm seeing is fantastic.

I agree. Very early into his coaching career, but the players do seem to be responding. Again, we have said it many times, he has specific demands when it comes to both playing and practicing. If you adhere, it appears that you will play.