Player Discussion David Krejci. IV

[BRUINS since 1995]

No one is crapping on Bergeron. They’re seeing Krejci play the best he’s played since he had two good wings, which was coincidentally 5 years ago. I’d be pretty interested to see what Bergeron could do with Debrusk and Bjork. I think it makes the Bruins a deeper team and I think Bergeron would be great for those guys.

So yes, Krejci has as much points in more games, so why keep going back to what isn’t working? We need more than one line in the playoffs.

That is why you need to split... to avoid a ome line team.

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

We’ll see. I just look at Debrusk’s game and see it working better with Bergeron since they’re both players that push the pace. Hopefully splitting Marchand and Pastrnak works because they’ll have a better team if it does. Not sure Heinen is the right fit on the top line though, they need someone that can score and push the pace.

I think Heinen will fit. Cassidy will need patience thiugh, which is something coaches can’t sell too long. They need to keep the guys till they turn the corner.

 

[KrejciMVP]

That is why you need to split... to avoid a ome line team.

I'd rather keep the 1 line team than have 2 ineffective top lines with a void on each wing by splitting up Pasta and Marchand. They need to simply add another player to the 2nd line that is able to produce at a top 6 level. Adding that player would hopefully give you a dominant line 1 and a productive line 2. Then we can worry about the 3rd line

 

[LSCII]

If my calculation are correct, .76 versu .80.

Bergeron with the shut down role, DK with the best offensive forwards.

It's one more point for DK in 3 less games than PB. Basically a statistical dead heat.

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

It's one more point for DK in 3 less games than PB. Basically a statistical dead heat.

Well... that is with the defensive load, including his come back after concussion.... Bergeron is not flashy but efficient

 

[DarrenBanks56]

I don't know. I think JDB looked pretty solid shooting the puck after a bit of a slow start. And really, DK needs a guy that will shoot, and crash. That's it, and I think JDB can be that guy. Ideally, Pasta DK and JDB gel and this all becomes a non-issue.

i would agree with you there IF they called up cehlarik and put him on the rw with jdb and krejci. for some off reason they havent given him a shot yet.

 

[rocketdan9]

i would agree with you there IF they called up cehlarik and put him on the rw with jdb and krejci. for some off reason they havent given him a shot yet.

I think they will the next player or two injured .... and if the 2nd line (with Debrusk back and/or combination with Pasta) can't generate points

Sweeney must know something has to get done by the trade deadline, but before he does (and possibly trades Cehlarik, Bjork or Donato etc) ... give these prospects another shot at the big stage.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

the last couple pages of this thread is just wild to me. I swear to god @LSCII digs in on arguments just to be stubborn. Lonnie, you're not even being rational and you're utterly ignoring the points people are making. You keep making emotional appeals and projecting hyper-emotional arguments onto the people you're debating with.

Nobody is saying Krejci "deserves" good linemates more than Bergeron. This isn't about which player is better offensively either. All @Mainehockey33 is arguing is that for the overall balance of the team, if they aren't going to go out and acquire a top 6 wing or two then keeping Krejci with Marchand & Pasta and putting Bergeron with kids or whoever might result in a more productive team overall. It's not about Krejci being better offensively (he's not), or deserving it more, or crapping on Bergeron, or "demoting" him or whatever weird, oddly offended spin you want to put on it. It's about using the talent they have in a way that hopefully generates offense from more than 1 line.

Krejci has shown that with good wingers he produces at a 1st line level and with average or inconsistent wingers he produces significantly less. Bergeron's motor is on another level and we've seen him be productive with a rookie Marchand and a 40+ year old Recchi and that was arguably a version of Bergeron that was inferior offensively to the one we have today. The whole argument some are trying to make is that Krejci on line 1 gives you a terrific 1st line while Bergeron on line 2 might finally give you some secondary scoring that Krejci can't seem to generate when carrying his wingers. People seem offended by this suggestion as if it's some affront to Bergeron when it's actually a compliment because it acknowledges that Bergeron drives play more and better than Krejci. Krejci needs more help from his wings than Bergeron does. Like...this is literally the thing that you (Lonnie) have been arguing for years and @Mainehockey33 is suggesting something that is in total agreement with that belief and you are arguing with him instead of like...considering it.

Now, maybe Marchand-Bergeron-Heinen and Debruskj-Krejci-Pasta accomplishes the same thing, but the more I see of this group the more I think it's the Marchand+Pasta combo that is what's really driving the offense and the part that shouldn't be split up. That's why the Krejci vs Bergeron question is even being discussed.

and before you go back to the "well Krejci should just play better and carry his wings!" argument... Look...he's just not that player. I acknowledge it. I'm a fan, but we know he isn't capable of carrying a streaky Debrusk and stone-hands Nordstrom. Hell Nordstrom having 5 goals already is arguably a credit to Krejci, but ultimately Krejci needs legit top 6 wingers in order to produce at the 70 point pace that everyone demands of him. Yes it would be nice if none of this was true, but that's who he is and he's not going anywhere so all we can do is hope they construct the team accordingly instead of sticking him with stiffs and pouting about it.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

...

I also find it beyond ironic that the same people saying "If Krejci was so good, he should produce with anyone" are also up in arms about the suggestion that Bergeron should play with those same wingers to make them better...

they are essentially admitting that its not Krejci that's the issue, its his wingers. Otherwise they'd have no issues with Bergeron playing with them


edit: and to your Nordstrom point, he is matching his highest GPG of his career this year (0.14), but somehow "Krejci doesnt elevate teammates"

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

the last couple pages of this thread is just wild to me. I swear to god @LSCII digs in on arguments just to be stubborn. Lonnie, you're not even being rational and you're utterly ignoring the points people are making. You keep making emotional appeals and projecting hyper-emotional arguments onto the people you're debating with.

Nobody is saying Krejci "deserves" good linemates more than Bergeron. This isn't about which player is better offensively either. All @Mainehockey33 is arguing is that for the overall balance of the team, if they aren't going to go out and acquire a top 6 wing or two then keeping Krejci with Marchand & Pasta and putting Bergeron with kids or whoever might result in a more productive team overall. It's not about Krejci being better offensively (he's not), or deserving it more, or crapping on Bergeron, or "demoting" him or whatever weird, oddly offended spin you want to put on it. It's about using the talent they have in a way that hopefully generates offense from more than 1 line.

Krejci has shown that with good wingers he produces at a 1st line level and with average or inconsistent wingers he produces significantly less. Bergeron's motor is on another level and we've seen him be productive with a rookie Marchand and a 40+ year old Recchi and that was arguably a version of Bergeron that was inferior offensively to the one we have today. The whole argument some are trying to make is that Krejci on line 1 gives you a terrific 1st line while Bergeron on line 2 might finally give you some secondary scoring that Krejci can't seem to generate when carrying his wingers. People seem offended by this suggestion as if it's some affront to Bergeron when it's actually a compliment because it acknowledges that Bergeron drives play more and better than Krejci. Krejci needs more help from his wings than Bergeron does. Like...this is literally the thing that you (Lonnie) have been arguing for years and @Mainehockey33 is suggesting something that is in total agreement with that belief and you are arguing with him instead of like...considering it.

Now, maybe Marchand-Bergeron-Heinen and Debruskj-Krejci-Pasta accomplishes the same thing, but the more I see of this group the more I think it's the Marchand+Pasta combo that is what's really driving the offense and the part that shouldn't be split up. That's why the Krejci vs Bergeron question is even being discussed.

and before you go back to the "well Krejci should just play better and carry his wings!" argument... Look...he's just not that player. I acknowledge it. I'm a fan, but we know he isn't capable of carrying a streaky Debrusk and stone-hands Nordstrom. Hell Nordstrom having 5 goals already is arguably a credit to Krejci, but ultimately Krejci needs legit top 6 wingers in order to produce at the 70 point pace that everyone demands of him. Yes it would be nice if none of this was true, but that's who he is and he's not going anywhere so all we can do is hope they construct the team accordingly instead of sticking him with stiffs and pouting about it.

Very well written and summarize well. It took a long time to stop avocating how Krejci is that good and saying the right fundamentals behind your pov. I respect this post alot and agree. Split both wingers and or try Bergeron with less talented wingers to succeed where DK ain’t capable. My preference is splitting wingers, Marchand and Bergeron can produce, past is witness of this. Now, time to figure out for DK and Pastrnak. But i understand that you don’t want to seperate 88 and 63.

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

I also find it beyond ironic that the same people saying "If Krejci was so good, he should produce with anyone" are also up in arms about the suggestion that Bergeron should play with those same wingers to make them better...

they are essentially admitting that its not Krejci that's the issue, its his wingers. Otherwise they'd have no issues with Bergeron playing with them


edit: and to your Nordstrom point, he is matching his highest GPG of his career this year (0.14), but somehow "Krejci doesnt elevate teammates"

This sums up what was wrong with the pov of swapping DK and Bergeron imo.

 

[LSCII]

i would agree with you there IF they called up cehlarik and put him on the rw with jdb and krejci. for some off reason they havent given him a shot yet.

Ugh. They haven't given him a shot because he hasn't done anything to warrant being given a shot.

 

[LSCII]

the last couple pages of this thread is just wild to me. I swear to god @LSCII digs in on arguments just to be stubborn. Lonnie, you're not even being rational and you're utterly ignoring the points people are making. You keep making emotional appeals and projecting hyper-emotional arguments onto the people you're debating with.

Nobody is saying Krejci "deserves" good linemates more than Bergeron. This isn't about which player is better offensively either. All @Mainehockey33 is arguing is that for the overall balance of the team, if they aren't going to go out and acquire a top 6 wing or two then keeping Krejci with Marchand & Pasta and putting Bergeron with kids or whoever might result in a more productive team overall. It's not about Krejci being better offensively (he's not), or deserving it more, or crapping on Bergeron, or "demoting" him or whatever weird, oddly offended spin you want to put on it. It's about using the talent they have in a way that hopefully generates offense from more than 1 line.

Krejci has shown that with good wingers he produces at a 1st line level and with average or inconsistent wingers he produces significantly less. Bergeron's motor is on another level and we've seen him be productive with a rookie Marchand and a 40+ year old Recchi and that was arguably a version of Bergeron that was inferior offensively to the one we have today. The whole argument some are trying to make is that Krejci on line 1 gives you a terrific 1st line while Bergeron on line 2 might finally give you some secondary scoring that Krejci can't seem to generate when carrying his wingers. People seem offended by this suggestion as if it's some affront to Bergeron when it's actually a compliment because it acknowledges that Bergeron drives play more and better than Krejci. Krejci needs more help from his wings than Bergeron does. Like...this is literally the thing that you (Lonnie) have been arguing for years and @Mainehockey33 is suggesting something that is in total agreement with that belief and you are arguing with him instead of like...considering it.

Now, maybe Marchand-Bergeron-Heinen and Debruskj-Krejci-Pasta accomplishes the same thing, but the more I see of this group the more I think it's the Marchand+Pasta combo that is what's really driving the offense and the part that shouldn't be split up. That's why the Krejci vs Bergeron question is even being discussed.

and before you go back to the "well Krejci should just play better and carry his wings!" argument... Look...he's just not that player. I acknowledge it. I'm a fan, but we know he isn't capable of carrying a streaky Debrusk and stone-hands Nordstrom. Hell Nordstrom having 5 goals already is arguably a credit to Krejci, but ultimately Krejci needs legit top 6 wingers in order to produce at the 70 point pace that everyone demands of him. Yes it would be nice if none of this was true, but that's who he is and he's not going anywhere so all we can do is hope they construct the team accordingly instead of sticking him with stiffs and pouting about it.

The overall balance of the team is fine with DK having Pasta ride on his wing and Bergeron play with Marchand. I honestly don't get why that's not enough since it does exactly what the supposed premise was. Giving both guys to DK actually unbalances the team the same way having both play with Bergeron does. That's what I was arguing.

 

[LSCII]

I also find it beyond ironic that the same people saying "If Krejci was so good, he should produce with anyone" are also up in arms about the suggestion that Bergeron should play with those same wingers to make them better...

they are essentially admitting that its not Krejci that's the issue, its his wingers. Otherwise they'd have no issues with Bergeron playing with them


edit: and to your Nordstrom point, he is matching his highest GPG of his career this year (0.14), but somehow "Krejci doesnt elevate teammates"

How is DK's career PPG average being higher actually elevating his linemates? Not for nothing, but the way that data reads is the other way around. His average is higher because Marchand and Pasta have elevated him.

 

[DarrenBanks56]

Ugh. They haven't given him a shot because he hasn't done anything to warrant being given a shot.

I disagree. He was excellent in preseason. Has chemistry with Krejci and the guys they have had in there, have not done the job. You would think by now, they would bring him up and see if we could get a second line going.

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

I disagree. He was excellent in preseason. Has chemistry with Krejci and the guys they have had in there, have not done the job. You would think by now, they would bring him up and see if we could get a second line going.

So, Celahrik will make the second line going....He must be having a heck of AHL season and Bruins management must be blind!

 

[Mainehockey33]

The overall balance of the team is fine with DK having Pasta ride on his wing and Bergeron play with Marchand. I honestly don't get why that's not enough since it does exactly what the supposed premise was. Giving both guys to DK actually unbalances the team the same way having both play with Bergeron does. That's what I was arguing.

We’re saying it probably wouldn’t. Bergeron has made Bjork productive in his first NHL games. I think he would be productive with Debrusk and Bjork or whoever. Marchand, Seguin, Smith, Pastrnak all took their game to the next level playing with Bergeron, I want that for Debrusk and Bjork.

 

[LSCII]

We’re saying it probably wouldn’t. Bergeron has made Bjork productive in his first NHL games. I think he would be productive with Debrusk and Bjork or whoever. Marchand, Seguin, Smith, Pastrnak all took their game to the next level playing with Bergeron, I want that for Debrusk and Bjork.

And this is the problem I have, right here. Bergeron is expected to play with lesser players by the pro DK crowd because he can play with anyone, while they want to give the best wings to DK because he NEEDS better wings to be effective. All the while, Bergeron has been just as productive, if not more. It's nonsense.

 

[Mainehockey33]

And this is the problem I have, right here. Bergeron is expected to play with lesser players by the pro DK crowd because he can play with anyone, while they want to give the best wings to DK because he NEEDS better wings to be effective. All the while, Bergeron has been just as productive, if not more. It's nonsense.

And you’ve been doing the exact opposite all year, saying Krejci should play with whatever scrub he’s given and make them an offensive threat.

And if Bergeron is more productive, wouldn’t it make more sense to give him lesser wings? Maybe he could raise their game like everyone that hates DK says he should do.

 

[LSCII]

And you’ve been doing the exact opposite all year, saying Krejci should play with whatever scrub he’s given and make them an offensive threat.

And if Bergeron is more productive, wouldn’t it make more sense to give him lesser wings? Maybe he could raise their game like everyone that hates DK says he should do.

Yeah, because the line of Bergeron, Pasta, and Marchand is one of the best lines in hockey. But regardless, they split them up. What I don't get is why Pasta with DK isn't good enough for the DK crowd though.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Both players are good centers and their production goes up when surrounded by better players just like any other quality center in the NHL. The competition bt the two is competently meaningless. If Sweeney squanders his gift from chia by the not giving both centers a chance to succeed elevating their games with quality wingers then they are clueless. So far it seems they are

 

[rocketdan9]

So, Celahrik will make the second line going....He must be having a heck of AHL season and Bruins management must be blind!

You know its usually not easy for a winger to carry a line

Cehlarik play dropped last season when he was demoted to the third line by Cassidy vs playing on the 2nd (team was winning also)

Cassidy has a strange habit of doing this. Match lines with players with similar style of game. This notion cant be too hard

 

[rocketdan9]

Yeah, because the line of Bergeron, Pasta, and Marchand is one of the best lines in hockey. But regardless, they split them up. What I don't get is why Pasta with DK isn't good enough for the DK crowd though.

In todays nhl you need 3 forwards feeding off each other (top 6)

You cant have only two dancing around while the third one is a sandpaper, NS, dump and chase grinder...

 

[DarrenBanks56]

So, Celahrik will make the second line going....He must be having a heck of AHL season and Bruins management must be blind!

Maybe. We havent seen him yet. All I have seen is Bjork, donato, Cave , Nordstrom etc all fail at the opportunity

 

[missingchicklet]

Maybe. We havent seen him yet. All I have seen is Bjork, donato, Cave , Nordstrom etc all fail at the opportunity

And what we have seen of Cehlarik in the past at the NHL level has been him setting up plays, getting good scoring looks, and playing well enough a few months ago in preseason to the point it was a joke he didn't make it onto the roster for opening night. The Bs have been incredibly patient with a multitude of non-producers, but have never given Cehlarik a chance. Stupid.