Dave Tippett's future after not making the playoffs for 2 straight seasons

[letowskie]

I still think it would be a stretch right now to fire him this season; he simply hasn't had that much time under the new ownership. They are likely going to take their time evaluating him for more than a season.

However, if we are having the same conversation this time next year, he should be on his way out of the door. If we are going to miss playoffs for 3 straight seasons, then there is something very wrong with his coaching, motivation of players, and the ability to get the most out of players' talents. I hope we don't get to that point, as that would be almost 2 years into the new ownership, not a good way to attract fan interest and secure the long term future of this franchise in AZ.

If we were trying to turn it around, then he would need to be gone by next spring. Or if we decide to full on rebuild, then he would have to be gone any ways. He is just about the worst person you can find out there for developing young players. He's great at getting the most out of a skill-poor sub-par group of players, but probably not someone that can take a long view and develop an organization that is rebuilding on fresh talent.

 

[MP]

Gosbee tweeted last night that money is not an issue.

This is annoying. At best, it's naive. At worst, he's implying that DM/DT are the problem, which I do not buy for a second. I don't know where Gosbee was when the Coyotes made it to the conference finals, but I'm pretty damned sure he wasn't "in the room" with the coaches and players, nor was he in Don Maloney's office, offering cogent insights on team personnel. Gosbee is a financial stakeholder, I get that, but if I were him, and I cared at all about actually succeeding at hockey, I'd keep my damned mouth shut until next summer.

What I'm saying is, I will fight Gosbee anytime, anywhere. But no hitting below the belt. I am above average in both length and girth and would rather see the team relocate than jeopardize my dynastic potential.

 

[rt]

Fire Tippett? Ya'll are nuts.

 

[XX]

Fire Tippett? Ya'll are nuts.

Those in favor of this or see it happening at the end of the season should name a replacement. That's a tough gig to follow. Is Babcock going to be fired anytime soon?

 

[PHX FireBirds18]

Let's not forget that historically Ribs has played on teams with very good center depth. The extra attention and lack of quality line mates hurt.

 

[Vip]

This is annoying. At best, it's naive. At worst, he's implying that DM/DT are the problem, which I do not buy for a second. I don't know where Gosbee was when the Coyotes made it to the conference finals, but I'm pretty damned sure he wasn't "in the room" with the coaches and players, nor was he in Don Maloney's office, offering cogent insights on team personnel. Gosbee is a financial stakeholder, I get that, but if I were him, and I cared at all about actually succeeding at hockey, I'd keep my damned mouth shut until next summer.

What I'm saying is, I will fight Gosbee anytime, anywhere. But no hitting below the belt. I am above average in both length and girth and would rather see the team relocate than jeopardize my dynastic potential.

I'm just saying. I trust his word over your guys', no offense

 

[XX]

I'm just saying. I trust his word over your guys', no offense

That's not the point.

The point is that an owner has no reason to say otherwise. Why would he admit that money is an issue? "Hey fans, we're struggling but I'm not going to let GMDM make moves because we're watching the bottom line here." Tippett and Maloney are never going to say anything because going against your owner is a one way ticket to the blacklist.

It's fluff, and it doesn't mean anything. Actions speak louder than words. They delivered with the Ribeiro signing, and I'm sure they will greenlight any major changes Maloney wants to do come the deadline or offseason. But there's always a budget.

 

[RABBIT]

This is annoying. At best, it's naive. At worst, he's implying that DM/DT are the problem, which I do not buy for a second. I don't know where Gosbee was when the Coyotes made it to the conference finals, but I'm pretty damned sure he wasn't "in the room" with the coaches and players, nor was he in Don Maloney's office, offering cogent insights on team personnel. Gosbee is a financial stakeholder, I get that, but if I were him, and I cared at all about actually succeeding at hockey, I'd keep my damned mouth shut until next summer.

What I'm saying is, I will fight Gosbee anytime, anywhere. But no hitting below the belt. I am above average in both length and girth and would rather see the team relocate than jeopardize my dynastic potential.

Wow what a reach. You should have been a lawyer man, because you can sure make somethin out of nothin. (No offense, I'm just busting your balls.)

That's not the point.

The point is that an owner has no reason to say otherwise. Why would he admit that money is an issue? "Hey fans, we're struggling but I'm not going to let GMDM make moves because we're watching the bottom line here." Tippett and Maloney are never going to say anything because going against your owner is a one way ticket to the blacklist.

It's fluff, and it doesn't mean anything. Actions speak louder than words. They delivered with the Ribeiro signing, and I'm sure they will greenlight any major changes Maloney wants to do come the deadline or offseason. But there's always a budget.

I think you guys are reading WAY too much into this. I'm almost positive he was responding to a question from a fan about adding salary. He's reassuring his fan base that he is not afraid to forfeit some of his hard earned money to make this team better. What's wrong with that? If you were a newly named owner of a team, i'm sure you would throw your fans a bone, too. I'm sure he's not saying "we suck right now, but it's not because of me."

The dude just answered our wildest dreams by purchasing this team and saving us from another year of ownership threads and possible relocation, and we're bashing him over a tweet...this is why we can't have nice things

 

[Fallenone]

Those in favor of this or see it happening at the end of the season should name a replacement. That's a tough gig to follow. Is Babcock going to be fired anytime soon?

OK The Next Hot Coach in the NHL will be Willie Desjardins. Why He would want to come here God only knows? But He Was AHL Coach Of The Year. He would be perfect for working with Young Guys. In a year or two we should have a lot of. Not Tippett's strong point. Sorry. There is Your name. Now shot holes in it.

 

[cobra427]

OK The Next Hot Coach in the NHL will be Willie Desjardins. Why He would want to come here God only knows? But He Was AHL Coach Of The Year. He would be perfect for working with Young Guys. In a year or two we should have a lot of. Not Tippett's strong point. Sorry. There is Your name. Now shot holes in it.

I think Edmonton should hire him, they have a young guy development philosophy versus a win in the NHL Philosophy (Tip/DM). Young guys don't win in the NHL and the AHL is where you develop players.

 

[Fallenone]

I think Edmonton should hire him, they have a young guy development philosophy versus a win in the NHL Philosophy (Tip/DM). Young guys don't win in the NHL and the AHL is where you develop players.

True It takes a blend and with the cap in place You just can't afford to keep older player. Things are changing. Where before You could hang on to a proven player. Its harder to do now.

Again who would want to come here? A Proven Coach with a Stanley Cup Ring? Really?

 

[cobra427]

True It takes a blend and with the cap in place You just can't afford to keep older player. Things are changing. Where before You could hang on to a proven player. Its harder to do now.

Again who would want to come here? A Proven Coach with a Stanley Cup Ring? Really?

The only way Tip leaves is if he is tired of coaching or DM leaves and he does not see eye to eye with the new GM. I don't see DM EVER letting him go period. Who would want to come here? We will find out some day, but it will be 5 years or more from now, so who knows...

 

[Fallenone]

The only way Tip leaves is if he is tired of coaching or DM leaves and he does not see eye to eye with the new GM. I don't see DM EVER letting him go period. Who would want to come here? We will find out some day, but it will be 5 years or more from now, so who knows...

The Owner's may have a say in that. Just saying. And that 5 year thing. Isn't there a 5 year out on that lease? 1 year down. 4 years to go. What make You think DM's job is so firm? And don't forget He may leave due to illness. The Owners are sick of losing. And fire Him.

 

[cobra427]

The Owner's may have a say in that. Just saying. And that 5 year thing. Isn't there a 5 year out on that lease? 1 year down. 4 years to go. What make You think DM's job is so firm? And don't forget He may leave due to illness. The Owners are sick of losing. And fire Him.

Illness, the owners fire both, anything can happen. The reason I think DM is safe is because of the job he did the last 4 years with not much in talent or payroll. DM learned the hard way else where. He has not all of a sudden forgot how this works. Smart executives understand the long term value of guys like DM and Tip. Guys like Trotz, Tip and Babcock won't get fired, they will decide to leave when the time is right.

 

[Fallenone]

Illness, the owners fire both, anything can happen. The reason I think DM is safe is because of the job he did the last 4 years with not much in talent or payroll. DM learned the hard way else where. He has not all of a sudden forgot how this works. Smart executives understand the long term value of guys like DM and Tip. Guys like Trotz, Tip and Babcock won't get fired, they will decide to leave when the time is right.

I do understand what Your trying to say. I do. I don' view it as anything that great sorry. 1 year makes the playoff's. In the NHL that's no great feat. Got knocked off. 2011 Very Good!!!! WCF!!!! Last Year Tanked Big Time. This Year Tanking. I just think We can do better that's all. I really have seen better. Yes I've Seen Worse. (Rick Bowness). Wasn't here for the "Great One". I do understand where Tip is a big improvement. But right now These player are not playing for Him. Unless you get rid of all the players or a good part of the player. Or the coach The Coyotes are going to lose. Say what You will. We are losing. Line changes aren't working. Switch goalie. We are losing. You say keep Tip. OK Then how do We Win? A Trade? Who? We got nothingI have been reading On this board and other places Our Minors were Loaded. I Looked the other night at the stats Some of You Were so RIGHT!!! WE are screwed. Other than a couple of D-Men. There are no real forwards ready to come up and put the puck in the net. I was so mistaken by believing the press clipping about Portland.
So I ask You How do you turn this around?

 

[BUX7PHX]

I do understand what Your trying to say. I do. I don' view it as anything that great sorry. 1 year makes the playoff's. In the NHL that's no great feat. Got knocked off. 2011 Very Good!!!! WCF!!!! Last Year Tanked Big Time. This Year Tanking. I just think We can do better that's all. I really have seen better. Yes I've Seen Worse. (Rick Bowness). Wasn't here for the "Great One". I do understand where Tip is a big improvement. But right now These player are not playing for Him. Unless you get rid of all the players or a good part of the player. Or the coach The Coyotes are going to lose. Say what You will. We are losing. Line changes aren't working. Switch goalie. We are losing. You say keep Tip. OK Then how do We Win? A Trade? Who? We got nothingI have been reading On this board and other places Our Minors were Loaded. I Looked the other night at the stats Some of You Were so RIGHT!!! WE are screwed. Other than a couple of D-Men. There are no real forwards ready to come up and put the puck in the net. I was so mistaken by believing the press clipping about Portland.
So I ask You How do you turn this around?

The problem with this is there are two distinct levels of what you are discussing with coaching here.

So the line changes and goalies aren't working right now - is that b/c of injuries primarily? Remember, we can say it doesn't work, but I guarantee that no team is going to be successful when you lose players in the first period of games like we have. For the most part, it is defensemen, so when we go on a rotation of 5 D, we lose the ability to forecheck more often, as it will wear out our D and get us further out of position when opposition breaks the forecheck. So, our changes and how we play have somewhat been factored in by injuries.

The way it comes across, I feel as if though there is an assumption that Tippett simply sets the lineup and that is it. I have to believe that if he sees that we are struggling in some ways, he will gameplan to make us more effective. I highly doubt that he would simply throw players out on the ice without any attempt to change styles or simplify the game. Maybe the exception would be if our team has continually strayed from the gameplan and he has to concede that if the team doesn't listen, then all he can do is throw them out there and hope. I don't think that is the case, b/c that would be practical mutiny amongst the team, which is not what is happening.

Coaches coach, but it comes down to the players performing in the context of the coaching. If the players deviate from a gameplan, what is the coach supposed to do? The reason we are down is because of the deviation. If the coach tries to change the gameplan, how do you know that the team won't continue to deviate? That is our issue right now. Players are moving away from what is being taught, even though they know that what is being taught gives the best chance to win. It happens during the course of any season...

 

[PhoPhan]

I do understand what Your trying to say. I do. I don' view it as anything that great sorry. 1 year makes the playoff's. In the NHL that's no great feat. Got knocked off. 2011 Very Good!!!! WCF!!!! Last Year Tanked Big Time. This Year Tanking. I just think We can do better that's all. I really have seen better. Yes I've Seen Worse. (Rick Bowness). Wasn't here for the "Great One". I do understand where Tip is a big improvement. But right now These player are not playing for Him. Unless you get rid of all the players or a good part of the player. Or the coach The Coyotes are going to lose. Say what You will. We are losing. Line changes aren't working. Switch goalie. We are losing. You say keep Tip. OK Then how do We Win? A Trade? Who? We got nothingI have been reading On this board and other places Our Minors were Loaded. I Looked the other night at the stats Some of You Were so RIGHT!!! WE are screwed. Other than a couple of D-Men. There are no real forwards ready to come up and put the puck in the net. I was so mistaken by believing the press clipping about Portland.
So I ask You How do you turn this around?

This is asinine. Tippett's record in both Phoenix and Dallas demonstrates he's a top tier coach in this league. If you replace him, you will at best get someone on his level, and much more likely, you'll get someone far worse (especially if you go with someone as unproven as Desjardins, as you suggested).

As a reminder, the Coyotes are currently ahead of their pace from the year they made it to the conference finals. Were you calling for Tippett's head then? If you were, you were proven hilariously wrong.

 

[Fallenone]

The problem with this is there are two distinct levels of what you are discussing with coaching here.

So the line changes and goalies aren't working right now - is that b/c of injuries primarily? Remember, we can say it doesn't work, but I guarantee that no team is going to be successful when you lose players in the first period of games like we have. For the most part, it is defensemen, so when we go on a rotation of 5 D, we lose the ability to forecheck more often, as it will wear out our D and get us further out of position when opposition breaks the forecheck. So, our changes and how we play have somewhat been factored in by injuries.

The way it comes across, I feel as if though there is an assumption that Tippett simply sets the lineup and that is it. I have to believe that if he sees that we are struggling in some ways, he will gameplan to make us more effective. I highly doubt that he would simply throw players out on the ice without any attempt to change styles or simplify the game. Maybe the exception would be if our team has continually strayed from the gameplan and he has to concede that if the team doesn't listen, then all he can do is throw them out there and hope. I don't think that is the case, b/c that would be practical mutiny amongst the team, which is not what is happening.

Coaches coach, but it comes down to the players performing in the context of the coaching. If the players deviate from a gameplan, what is the coach supposed to do? The reason we are down is because of the deviation. If the coach tries to change the gameplan, how do you know that the team won't continue to deviate? That is our issue right now. Players are moving away from what is being taught, even though they know that what is being taught gives the best chance to win. It happens during the course of any season...

I agree with You on this. the player have deviated and continue to deviate from the coaches game plan. Why can they seem to keep getting away with this? It seem to happen all last season to. Look I'm not saying Tip is not a good coach. He just may not be what this team needs right here right now. If the player are tuning Him out. Really How Can This Team Win? How Long Will Fan Show Up? Will New Fans Go?

These players are not responding Him right now. That's plain. No pride No spirit. Just going thru the motions. Except for a few exceptions. Its been a long time since I've seen a team play like this.

 

[Sinurgy]

This thread is full of stupid.

 

[kihekah19*]

This thread is full of stupid.

The very existence of this thread is stupid.

 

[Fallenone]

This is asinine. Tippett's record in both Phoenix and Dallas demonstrates he's a top tier coach in this league. If you replace him, you will at best get someone on his level, and much more likely, you'll get someone far worse (especially if you go with someone as unproven as Desjardins, as you suggested).

As a reminder, the Coyotes are currently ahead of their pace from the year they made it to the conference finals. Were you calling for Tippett's head then? If you were, you were proven hilariously wrong.

That was then. This is now. Missed the playoff's last year. Do you see us making it this Year? Really??? We may win tonight. Its good to have hope. But I don't see us making the Playoff's this year. So We go on losing. But We Lose with a Great Coach Right?

Yes Desjardins is unproven at the NHL level. But Next season He will be coaching in the NHL. Somewhere. I doubt He would want to come here. Like I said Do You think some HOFer is coming here? Why would they? Same with any Good Free Agent. Not until some changes are made.

 

[PhoPhan]

That was then. This is now. Missed the playoff's last year. Do you see us making it this Year? Really??? We may win tonight. Its good to have hope. But I don't see us making the Playoff's this year. So We go on losing. But We Lose with a Great Coach Right?

Yes Desjardins is unproven at the NHL level. But Next season He will be coaching in the NHL. Somewhere. I doubt He would want to come here. Like I said Do You think some HOFer is coming here? Why would they? Same with any Good Free Agent. Not until some changes are made.

What you're saying about Desjardins now is what folks said about Eakins last year and Boucher a few years before that. And why wouldn't someone want to come here? Tippett was an acclaimed coach when he came to Phoenix, and that was under much more dire circumstances. The problem isn't that this isn't an attractive destination. The problem is that the best coaches are all currently employed.

Of course, that's only a problem if you think Tippett is a bad coach.

And yes, I do think the Coyotes make the playoffs this year. Even after this massive slump, they're right on the bubble. They'll rebound.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I agree with You on this. the player have deviated and continue to deviate from the coaches game plan. Why can they seem to keep getting away with this? It seem to happen all last season to. Look I'm not saying Tip is not a good coach. He just may not be what this team needs right here right now. If the player are tuning Him out. Really How Can This Team Win? How Long Will Fan Show Up? Will New Fans Go?

These players are not responding Him right now. That's plain. No pride No spirit. Just going thru the motions. Except for a few exceptions. Its been a long time since I've seen a team play like this.

They aren't getting away with it. Getting away with it was what happened earlier in the year, when even players like Doan acknowledged that we were getting points, but clearly doing so while not playing the way that we need to.

So, maybe that becomes a locker room issue, which is what people have mentioned as being a possible issue. It could just be that we know the issues, but there are no trade/player movement discussions that can alleviate the current situation. If it is a problem with individual players responding to Tip (which I'd say is a 10% chance), we've seen what can happen. We have rid ourselves of players like Turris, Winnik, etc. that may not fall in line with coaching and management. And we're still okay when we got rid of them.

I think that the players rode the wave of new ownership, offseason additions, etc., and we forgot what it was to work for the best results in games, rather than assuming that we have the talent to make up for it. The other night's game against St. Louis reiterates that if we were not responding to Tip, then we would have given up another 30 shots on goal. I think he simplified what we wanted to do defensively, which results in fewer shots (and hopefully less quality on those shots).

 

[Fallenone]

They aren't getting away with it. Getting away with it was what happened earlier in the year, when even players like Doan acknowledged that we were getting points, but clearly doing so while not playing the way that we need to.

So, maybe that becomes a locker room issue, which is what people have mentioned as being a possible issue. It could just be that we know the issues, but there are no trade/player movement discussions that can alleviate the current situation. If it is a problem with individual players responding to Tip (which I'd say is a 10% chance), we've seen what can happen. We have rid ourselves of players like Turris, Winnik, etc. that may not fall in line with coaching and management. And we're still okay when we got rid of them.

I think that the players rode the wave of new ownership, offseason additions, etc., and we forgot what it was to work for the best results in games, rather than assuming that we have the talent to make up for it. The other night's game against St. Louis reiterates that if we were not responding to Tip, then we would have given up another 30 shots on goal. I think he simplified what we wanted to do defensively, which results in fewer shots (and hopefully less quality on those shots).

Yea whatever you say. I'll be saving money on Playoff Tickets, AGAIN!!! Some teams just aren't meant to win.

 

[CC96]

This is asinine. Tippett's record in both Phoenix and Dallas demonstrates he's a top tier coach in this league. If you replace him, you will at best get someone on his level, and much more likely, you'll get someone far worse (especially if you go with someone as unproven as Desjardins, as you suggested).

As a reminder, the Coyotes are currently ahead of their pace from the year they made it to the conference finals. Were you calling for Tippett's head then? If you were, you were proven hilariously wrong.

This thread is full of stupid.

The very existence of this thread is stupid.

This.