Player Discussion Danton Heinen III

[GloryDaze4877]

I've had mixed opinions on him all year. I made it a point in the other thread that I'll timestamp it for you just the other day.

We're splitting hairs here. I'll hold my end of the bargain when the time comes. I'll include what I think are good plays from him too because I do think, believe it or not, Heinen does make great plays from time to time.

Sounds like a plan.

 

[Healthy Wrap]

Don’t like how they’ handled his development. He’s obviously struggling out there and I don’t think playing him 10 minutes a night is the solution. You’ve got a guy in Debrusk who has also underperformed this year. I don’t see the harm in swapping them once in a while, especially considering the heavy game that Debrusk plays. I feel like he would fit right in with Frederic and Backes

 

[PB37]

Don’t like how they’ handled his development. He’s obviously struggling out there and I don’t think playing him 10 minutes a night is the solution. You’ve got a guy in Debrusk who has also underperformed this year. I don’t see the harm in swapping them once in a while, especially considering the heavy game that Debrusk plays. I feel like he would fit right in with Frederic and Backes

Backes is sitting tonight; Heinen is in.

 

[NDiesel]

I’m not sure how it’s “cherry picking” when I have been saying for the last few weeks that I haven’t liked DeBrusk’s game (even though I like the player)? I made this point yesterday and in the 10th game, DeBrusk had a goal. If I had said 9 games to exclude it, that would have been cherry picking

DeBrusk is more of a shooter than Heinen at all times, so it doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that he has more shots. On any given night, the B’s should have the best players in the lineup. Over the last stretch, Heinen has played better than DeBrusk. Period.

As far as Nordstom goes, how would they know if Heinen is the better PK guy or not, as he rarely gets the opportunity? And offensively, despite Heinen’s sub par performance this year, he has almost double Nordstom’s points and has an 8 point advantage in plus/minus.

When I look at two players who are playing similarly, except one was drafted and developed by the team (and should have more trade value should they decide to go that route), while the other appears to be a short term fix, there is no question about which one I would have in the lineup.

I'll touch on the bolded first - if I were to bet, in practice they have likely tried Heinen and determined that the other guys are better.

Now, it's cherry picking IMO because you picked a small 10 game sample where Heinen had a couple more points to show that Heinen was slightly better and deserved to play over Debrusk.

In another small sample of 15 games the Debrusk had 4 extra goals and even that would be nitpicking as well to me. The other issue with this small sample size is you picked a short stretch where Debrusk struggled, while Heinen has struggled the entire year.

Lastly, in what way has Heinen been better lately? Maybe marginally, but they both have played like crap and saying "period." after doesn't make that any less true - but again, when your team isn't scoring it makes no sense to sit the guy with 14 goals vs. the guy with 14 points.

You always use "I have said I like ____ player" in these Heinen debates just to show you are impartial, but truth is you have rose coloured glasses GD. He's a good player, but I don't agree that he should play over Debrusk - over Nordstrom/Backes/Acciari there is a valid argument.

 

[ODAAT]

Don’t like how they’ handled his development. He’s obviously struggling out there and I don’t think playing him 10 minutes a night is the solution. You’ve got a guy in Debrusk who has also underperformed this year. I don’t see the harm in swapping them once in a while, especially considering the heavy game that Debrusk plays. I feel like he would fit right in with Frederic and Backes

honestly haven`t noticed DeBrusk in weeks, doesn`t mean I necessarily scratch him but maybe a dose of 4th line hockey would serve him well, simplify things

 

[Number8]

honestly haven`t noticed DeBrusk in weeks, doesn`t mean I necessarily scratch him but maybe a dose of 4th line hockey would serve him well, simplify things

Not sure the solution, but he's was a bit snakebitten first few games of season and then got on a roll. Looked very good. Then missed 9 games with a concussion and has been a bit off since. Just going to take time. Nothing about this kid says he won't be back to where he was last season and the middle part of this season.

Hell, even since he's been back from concussion he has 4 goals in 16 games. Projects to 20+ -- even during a time where we all, I think, can agree he's looked off.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I'll touch on the bolded first - if I were to bet, in practice they have likely tried Heinen and determined that the other guys are better.

Now, it's cherry picking IMO because you picked a small 10 game sample where Heinen had a couple more points to show that Heinen was slightly better and deserved to play over Debrusk.

In another small sample of 15 games the Debrusk had 4 extra goals and even that would be nitpicking as well to me. The other issue with this small sample size is you picked a short stretch where Debrusk struggled, while Heinen has struggled the entire year.

Lastly, in what way has Heinen been better lately? Maybe marginally, but they both have played like crap and saying "period." after doesn't make that any less true - but again, when your team isn't scoring it makes no sense to sit the guy with 14 goals vs. the guy with 14 points.

You always use "I have said I like ____ player" in these Heinen debates just to show you are impartial, but truth is you have rose coloured glasses GD. He's a good player, but I don't agree that he should play over Debrusk - over Nordstrom/Backes/Acciari there is a valid argument.

Have they tried Heinen on the PK in practice? Who knows? I assumed that they knew that Donato and Bjork were better than Cehlarik and how has that turned out?

Yes, I’m a fan of Heinen. This is the worst kept secret on the board. It has absolutely nothing to do with DeBrusk. My only issue with this matter is that it appears that DeBrusk gets to play by a different sent of rules from some of the other players, which I don’t agree with.

When players have struggled for periods of time, Kuraly, Acciari, Heinen, Bjork, Donato, Backes...all sat when they weren’t producing. DeBrusk has now struggled for the last 10/11 games, hasn’t produced, yet he continues to get rolled out, is attached to DK’s hip, and still gets PP time.

At what point does he sit, if that’s what the coach is doing to others?

As far as your “cherry picking” theory goes, it’s BS. Why can’t you say DeBrusk played well up to this point (10-11 games ago) and since then he hasn’t been good? How is that cherry picking? You are just laying out facts.

I watched a sequence last night in the Isles end where (literally) DeBrusk lost the puck 3/4 times on the boards, but was bailed out by both Krejci and Cehlarik who stole it back each time. I said to myself that if that was Heinen, multiple people would have called him out for being soft. I think one person in the GDT mentioned it?

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I've had mixed opinions on him all year. I made it a point in the other thread that I'll timestamp it for you just the other day.

We're splitting hairs here. I'll hold my end of the bargain when the time comes. I'll include what I think are good plays from him too because I do think, believe it or not, Heinen does make great plays from time to time.

I’m going to a high school hockey game at 7pm and am DVRing the B’s game. I will be waiting with great anticipation for your breakdown of Heinen’s suckiness when I get home

 

[xStanleyCupsFor]

Backes is sitting tonight; Heinen is in.

This is the right move. I mean, he's been an incredibly frustrating player this season, but he brings more to the lineup than Backes would at this point.

 

[neelynugs]

i think he'll be fine in a 3rd line role with consistent/quality linemates. we'll see if he gets that chance.

 

[NDiesel]

And while I rip him he scores a beauty tip in, I hope he gets going with 63-37

 

[The don godfather]

And while I rip him he scores a beauty tip in, I hope he gets going with 63-37

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awile ....

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awile ....

I only saw the last half of the game, so no idea how Heinen looked the first half, but he was very good with 37 and 63. He needs to play like that every game.

If you couldn’t see that tonight, I don’t know what else to tell you.

 

[PlayMakers]

I thought he deserved to be scratched. Didn't like the Philly game at all and I think he just seemed so stuck in a rut that he needed a jolt to get out of it. It worked. He played with Marchand and Bergeron before and was a non-factor. Tonight, he had that extra jump in his step, winning pucks, getting to the front of the net, making good decisions. He looked very good on that line tonight. I don't think he'll stay there, but I'd keep him there for awhile to try to get his confidence back up.

 

[DoubleAAAA]

Played well once moved tonight. Got rewarded for it. Hopefully he can build some positive momentum. Would like to see him make quicker decisions with the puck on his stick

 

[TCB]

Played well once moved tonight. Got rewarded for it. Hopefully he can build some positive momentum. Would like to see him make quicker decisions with the puck on his stick

He needs to move quicker without the puck as well, maybe he will if Cassidy gives him more than an audition with Bergy and Marchand. There was one play in particular he was more of a spectator in front of the net while Marchand chased down his own rebound from one side to the other while Henein stayed there waiting for the puck to come to his stick.

It was as if he was stuck in neutral and Marchand knew it. There was no-way Marchand should of gotten to that puck before Henein.

 

[Blowfish]

I thought he deserved to be scratched. Didn't like the Philly game at all and I think he just seemed so stuck in a rut that he needed a jolt to get out of it. It worked. He played with Marchand and Bergeron before and was a non-factor. Tonight, he had that extra jump in his step, winning pucks, getting to the front of the net, making good decisions. He looked very good on that line tonight. I don't think he'll stay there, but I'd keep him there for awhile to try to get his confidence back up.

Other than his first shift with that line he was effective. I missed the 3rd however it appears the team turned into Clode .

 

[GloryDaze4877]

He needs to move quicker without the puck as well, maybe he will if Cassidy gives him more than an audition with Bergy and Marchand. There was one play in particular he was more of a spectator in front of the net while Marchand chased down his own rebound from on side to the other while Henein stayed there waiting for the puck to come to his stick.

It was as if he was stuck in neutral and Marchand knew it. There was no-way Marchand should of gotten to that puck before Henein.

I know the play you are talking about and I would chalk that up to a lack of chemistry, not a lack of effort. I don’t think he knew which of them should go to the puck and which should go to the net? He probably should have retrieved it and let Marchand take the spot where he was?

I thought he looked engaged, was winning battles, had chances and set some up. That said, I agree with Bill. I hope they leave Heinen there for a few games for confidence, but the lineup we saw last night will not get them to the ECF’s.

If they want to do some damage in the playoffs, they need something like:

63-37-Saad (or similar)
22-46-88
74-Hayes/Brassard (or sim)-43
20-52-82-14-42-55 (choose 3)

If they got someone like Toffoli, I think he would be a better fit with Krejci than Bergeron and they could push Pasta back up.

Third line you could also interchange JDB and Cehlarik if one is feeling it.

 

[Blowfish]

I know the play you are talking about and I would chalk that up to a lack of chemistry, not a lack of effort. I don’t think he knew which of them should go to the puck and which should go to the net? He probably should have retrieved it and let Marchand take the spot where he was?

I thought he looked engaged, was winning battles, had chances and set some up. That said, I agree with Bill. I hope they leave Heinen there for a few games for confidence, but the lineup we saw last night will not get them to the ECF’s.

If they want to do some damage in the playoffs, they need something like:

63-37-Saad (or similar)
22-46-88
74-Hayes/Brassard (or sim)-43
20-52-82-14-42-55 (choose 3)

If they got someone like Toffoli, I think he would be a better fit with Krejci than Bergeron and they could push Pasta back up.

Third line you could also interchange JDB and Cehlarik if one is feeling it.

I really do hope something like this happens but to make this happen (I'm in favour of it - time is now philosophy) is to give up some high draft picks and top end young D talent. Unfortunately there isn't anything special in our young forward group with perhaps Donato having the highest ceiling.

 

[KrejciMVP]

He show flashes of brilliance. Needs a better veteran coach imo who knows how to put him in a position to succeed.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I really do hope something like this happens but to make this happen (I'm in favour of it - time is now philosophy) is to give up some high draft picks and top end young D talent. Unfortunately there isn't anything special in our young forward group with perhaps Donato having the highest ceiling.

If the B’s are serious about making a run, they need to do that. I still believe that Heinen, DeBrusk, Cehlarik can be legit Top
6 players, but they are not good enough this year. I leave Cehlarik in the Top 6 because of the chemistry with Krejci.

You pick up a wing with term that will be there next year at least, and a center that won’t block Frederic and/or Studnicka and try to make runs this year and next while 37 and 46 are still playing at a high level.

 

[False Start]

I’m going to a high school hockey game at 7pm and am DVRing the B’s game. I will be waiting with great anticipation for your breakdown of Heinen’s suckiness when I get home

I apologize GD, I had multiple reasons I missed the majority of this game.

But he had one shift, 10 minutes into the game where he was in position and didn't do much of anything (good or bad) that wasn't expected of him.

That's all I got. If you have a full game replay for me I'd gladly break down his tape.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I apologize GD, I had multiple reasons I missed the majority of this game.

But he had one shift, 10 minutes into the game where he was in position and didn't do much of anything (good or bad) that wasn't expected of him.

That's all I got. If you have a full game replay for me I'd gladly break down his tape.

No worries, I’m 90% busting your chops.

I only saw the last half of the game when he was with 63 and 37. I thought he looked very good for the most part. Given his hockey IQ and the caliber of his linemates, he SHOULD have looked good. I would like to see him bring that effort and production every game even when he’s not playing on the 1st line.

 

[Number8]

I only saw the last half of the game, so no idea how Heinen looked the first half, but he was very good with 37 and 63. He needs to play like that every game.

If you couldn’t see that tonight, I don’t know what else to tell you.

Heinen was excellent on top line with Marchand and Bergeron.

At the same time, Cehlarik-Krejci-Pasta was equally dangerous.

To me it's an absolute no brainer to go with Bergy/Marchand and Krejci/Pasta and add to that whoever holds the hot hand. For now, keeping with Heinen and Cehlarik respectively.

I love Jake -- but think he's been subpar since the concussion. He's also young. That said, I have no worries about him in future.

Same thought for people who are starting to slag off McAvoy. He's young, he's been hurt, and sorry if he's not yet a Norris Trophy winning defenseman 90 games into his career! Jesus.

 

[JCRO]

Is it too early to pass the crow around?

In all seriousness... Look what the kid can do with some competent line mates.

Yeah, it's easy to point at the fact he's playing with two of best two way forwards in the league. And I'm not saying he's a top 6 fix.

But there's no middle ground between that and who he was playing with the majority of this year- Backes who arguably shouldn't be in the lineup, a couple of rookie centers and some brief dips with the second line.

And that falls on Sweeney. They need some external help! Can't say it enough.