Player Discussion Danton Heinen III

[Mainehockey33]

I posted about this before the season began, but there is one ex-Bruin who Heinen really reminds me of and has had a pretty remarkably similar career to so far.

Age 22

GP	G	A	PTS	PPG	CF%	CF% Rel	Shot per Game
77	16	31	47	.61	54.7%	1.9	1.75
81	21	24	45	.56	51.8%	.9	1.85

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Age 23

GP	G	A	PTS	PPG	CF%	CF Rel%	Shot per Game
65	9	19	28	.43	52.6	.4	1.55
82	18	20	38	.46	54.1	-.5	1.94

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Any guesses to who it is?

Wheeler?

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

I posted about this before the season began, but there is one ex-Bruin who Heinen really reminds me of and has had a pretty remarkably similar career to so far.

Age 22

GP	G	A	PTS	PPG	CF%	CF% Rel	Shot per Game
77	16	31	47	.61	54.7%	1.9	1.75
81	21	24	45	.56	51.8%	.9	1.85

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Age 23

GP	G	A	PTS	PPG	CF%	CF Rel%	Shot per Game
65	9	19	28	.43	52.6	.4	1.55
82	18	20	38	.46	54.1	-.5	1.94

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Any guesses to who it is?

I'd be lying if I said I didn't look it up to verify my guess, but it's Wheeler and that's a damn good observation, the numbers are pretty similar in the first couple seasons.

 

[Tbaybruin]

Wagner on a 300 point pace if he plays on top line

 

[GloryDaze4877]

1. Doesn’t kill penalties.

2. Show me the guy who can’t play and be statistically successful with Bergeron and Marchand.

3. I also said, absent getting the guy I described, I’d be fine with him sticking around. Of course this is provided he doesn’t succeed his way to another 5 points in 25 game stretch or hustle his way into another stint in the point a week club for a month or so.

4. Lastly, as we see with guys like Wagner, toughness and hitting can be a useful part of the game. So if a guy scored at the same pace, was 3/4 as good defensively and 5x as tough/physical, he could be more effective, depending on the makeup of the team.

1. Can kill penalties and occasionally does, depending on the injury situation. Not that not being on the PK means you aren’t good defensively. The fact that Cassidy trusted Heinen enough to be the “veteran” on a line with JFK and Donato should tell you all you need to know about how he feels about him defensively.

2. Jaromir Jagr was not good statistically or otherwise with 37 and 63. The surprising thing is not that Heinen is good statistically with those two...it’s that he’s been as good as Pasta was and the line overall has been better both offensively and defensively.

3. Once again, you are equating “hustle” with production, which imo was not the issue. I’m glad you are ok with keeping a guy producing at almost a point per game. How big of you.

4. I love physical players. I love physical players that can score even more...

So does every single GM in the NHL.

Fortunately, it takes all types of players, and not just physical ones, to make up an effective team.

I’m still waiting for you to tell me which physical scorers who are also defensively responsible are available for Heinen.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Wagner on a 300 point pace if he plays on top line

Earlier in the year, I was asking for Wagner on the 3rd line.

I think a 3rd line of:

MoJo-Coyle-Wagner

Would be money.

 

[maxbme]

Wheeler?

That's right!

 

[sarge88]

1. Can kill penalties and occasionally does, depending on the injury situation. Not that not being on the PK means you aren’t good defensively. The fact that Cassidy trusted Heinen enough to be the “veteran” on a line with JFK and Donato should tell you all you need to know about how he feels about him defensively.

2. Jaromir Jagr was not good statistically or otherwise with 37 and 63. The surprising thing is not that Heinen is good statistically with those two...it’s that he’s been as good as Pasta was and the line overall has been better both offensively and defensively.

3. Once again, you are equating “hustle” with production, which imo was not the issue. I’m glad you are ok with keeping a guy producing at almost a point per game. How big of you.

4. I love physical players. I love physical players that can score even more...

So does every single GM in the NHL.

Fortunately, it takes all types of players, and not just physical ones, to make up an effective team.

I’m still waiting for you to tell me which physical scorers who are also defensively responsible are available for Heinen.

Why does it matter who? The guys you mentioned would do.

I could look for more if you really wanted.

I think the biggest problem that I have is that I keep forgetting that Heinen is the magical paradox.

Is tough, but doesn’t hit or fight.

Is great defensively, but is only used on the PK sparingly,

Is a great player even when he goes months scoring at a rate below even an average player.

The guy is playing great right now. I’m happy about that because it’s good for the team I root for, but I’d still rather see his spot taken by a different type of player. Provided of course that that player is as productive.

What else can I say. I don’t enjoy watching him play, but that doesn’t mean I’m not happy when he helps the team win.

I hated Don Sweeney for the 29 years it seemed like he played here too.

I doubt that I’m alone in having a guy or 5 over 30 years or so watching the team that I’m not a fan of.

 

[maxbme]

I'd be lying if I said I didn't look it up to verify my guess, but it's Wheeler and that's a damn good observation, the numbers are pretty similar in the first couple seasons.

Yeah, itll be interesting to see if he can keep it up and progress like wheeler did. Wheeler went from like a .5 PPG guy in Boston to almost 1 PPG guy in Winnipeg, but even if Heinen doesn't blow up like that, they play a fairly similar style of game and I can see him as a wheeler-lite.

 

[TCB]

Earlier in the year, I was asking for Wagner on the 3rd line.

I think a 3rd line of:

MoJo-Coyle-Wagner

Would be money.

I think your on to something, but I think its Heinen that would make that line money although both him and MoJo have solid three zone games. I feel Mojo has made some quick chemistry with Krejci and Debrusk, so I wouldn't want to mess with it and Heinen has more jam to his game and plays the cycle well, which would really complement Coyles and Wagners game.

Anyways, I see Cassidy going with something like this once everyone is healthy.

Marchand Bergeron Pastrnak
DeBrusk Krejci MoJo
Heinen Coyle Backes
Kuraly Acciari Wagner

I would like to see Kuhlman eventually take over for Backes and either moving Wags up to the third line or just slotting Kuhlman in there but I don't see Cassidy messing with his fourth line,once everyones healthy.

 

[Mainehockey33]

That's right!

I’ve thought about that comparison too. Obviously Heinen isn’t as big as Wheeler but I can see similarities in how they play, both being two way playmaking wingers. If Heinen ends up anywhere near as good as Wheeler is now, we’ll be in good shape.

 

[Pia8988]

1. Doesn’t kill penalties.

2. Show me the guy who can’t play and be statistically successful with Bergeron and Marchand.

3. I also said, absent getting the guy I described, I’d be fine with him sticking around. Of course this is provided he doesn’t succeed his way to another 5 points in 25 game stretch or hustle his way into another stint in the point a week club for a month or so.

4. Lastly, as we see with guys like Wagner, toughness and hitting can be a useful part of the game. So if a guy scored at the same pace, was 3/4 as good defensively and 5x as tough/physical, he could be more effective, depending on the makeup of the team.

1. Overrated aspect. PK is one of the easiest things to learn as a forward, less about being a good defensive forward. Bruins have an abundance here regardless.

2. Jagr. Connolly. Backes. Eriksson.

 

[sarge88]

1. Overrated aspect. PK is one of the easiest things to learn as a forward, less about being a good defensive forward. Bruins have an abundance here regardless.

2. Jagr. Connolly. Backes. Eriksson.

Good Points about Backes and Ericsson.

Jagr, I don’t think was as bad as some remember. I could be wrong, but I remember him hitting several posts in his short stint here....and by several, I’m thinking a crazy high number.

Connolly, sure, but I’m not sure his chances on that line were extensive enough to know for sure....but you’re probably right.

 

[Pia8988]

Good Points about Backes and Ericsson.

Jagr, I don’t think was as bad as some remember. I could be wrong, but I remember him hitting several posts in his short stint here....and by several, I’m thinking a crazy high number.

Connolly, sure, but I’m not sure his chances on that line were extensive enough to know for sure....but you’re probably right.

Jagr was a bit hit or miss. I don't think he meshed well with them.

Connolly played 423 minutes 5 on 5 with them in 2015 over 64 games.

the line was +4 in goals, +41 in scoring changes, +7 in high danger socring chances.

In the 456 minutes without Connolly, Marchand and Bergeron were + 10 in goals, + 59 in scoring chances and + 34 in high danger chances.


He played a pretty extensive amount and sucked. Heinen for ocmparison has only played 173 minutes with them this year.

 

[sarge88]

Jagr was a bit hit or miss. I don't think he meshed well with them.

Connolly played 423 minutes 5 on 5 with them in 2015 over 64 games.

the line was +4 in goals, +41 in scoring changes, +7 in high danger socring chances.

In the 456 minutes without Connolly, Marchand and Bergeron were + 10 in goals, + 59 in scoring chances and + 34 in high danger chances.


He played a pretty extensive amount and sucked. Heinen for ocmparison has only played 173 minutes with them this year.

Not going to argue with your numbers. I do think that the experience he got with M and B helped him become a better player.

Not saying he’d have turned into a 25 goal guy if he stayed here, but you never know how much better he might have been with more time.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Why does it matter who? The guys you mentioned would do.

I could look for more if you really wanted.

I think the biggest problem that I have is that I keep forgetting that Heinen is the magical paradox.

Is tough, but doesn’t hit or fight.

Is great defensively, but is only used on the PK sparingly,

Is a great player even when he goes months scoring at a rate below even an average player.

The guy is playing great right now. I’m happy about that because it’s good for the team I root for, but I’d still rather see his spot taken by a different type of player. Provided of course that that player is as productive.

What else can I say. I don’t enjoy watching him play, but that doesn’t mean I’m not happy when he helps the team win.

I hated Don Sweeney for the 29 years it seemed like he played here too.

I doubt that I’m alone in having a guy or 5 over 30 years or so watching the team that I’m not a fan of.

Why does “The who” matter?

I think it’s probably pretty obvious (well maybe not to you) that the guys I listed, that fit your description, are highly unlikely to be available. It’s like saying you would move Heinen as part of a package for McJesus. It’s just not going to happen.

As far as the rest of your nonsense, nobody is saying that Heinen is the perfect player, just that he’s better than you have given him credit for (primarily because he doesn’t meet your criteria for being tough or emotional enough).

I actually liked watching Sweeney play. I gave him a ton of credit for being an effective player against much bigger guys and carving out a long NHL career before that was in vogue.

 

[sarge88]

Why does “The who” matter?

I think it’s probably pretty obvious (well maybe not to you) that the guys I listed, that fit your description, are highly unlikely to be available. It’s like saying you would move Heinen as part of a package for McJesus. It’s just not going to happen.

As far as the rest of your nonsense, nobody is saying that Heinen is the perfect player, just that he’s better than you have given him credit for (primarily because he doesn’t meet your criteria for being tough or emotional enough).

I actually liked watching Sweeney play. I gave him a ton of credit for being an effective player against much bigger guys and carving out a long NHL career before that was in vogue.

You’re right.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I played agent today and visited cap-friendly to help Heinen with his arbitration case. I know some of you are predicting a 2 mill contract for mr danton. heres some comparables his agent will use

danton is 23 coming off his elc with 2 years of stats to compare... so I took similar guys in the same age bracket coming off their elc and I am including the points they scored in the 2 years before their signing

elias lindholm 27 goals 89 points multiyear 4.85mill
nick bjugstad 40 goals 81 points multi year 4.1 mill {signed in 2015}
victor rask 32 goals 81 points multi year 4 mill signed 2016
tanner pearson 39 goals 80 points 4 year deal 3.75 mill
anthony mantha 41 goals 81 points bridge deal 3.3 mill
JP Gageau 31 goals 76 points 3years 3.1mill
andre burakovsky 29 goals 73 points bridge deal 3 mill

and

danton heinen 25 goals and 76 points with 12 games left

you all are dreaming if you think his agent is going to sign him to a 2 mill contract. at the bottom end of these comparables he has a strong case for 3 mill on a bridge deal

throwing in comparables like bjorkstrom and kase would give him a slam dunk win at arbitration for 2.5 mill

we can argue he struggled in the first half of this year... but his agent will point out that when he gets a chance on a top line with more than 14 mins a game he was a ppg player during the stretch drive.

when I was talking about trading him months ago... last season even... I always said hes a fine player that can score. I was never surprised he would put up points. I always said it was because of this next contract. I saw this coming as far back as last season. but its here now. deal with it

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I played agent today and visited cap-friendly to help Heinen with his arbitration case. I know some of you are predicting a 2 mill contract for mr danton. heres some comparables his agent will use

danton is 23 coming off his elc with 2 years of stats to compare... so I took similar guys in the same age bracket coming off their elc and I am including the points they scored in the 2 years before their signing

elias lindholm 27 goals 89 points multiyear 4.85mill
nick bjugstad 40 goals 81 points multi year 4.1 mill {signed in 2015}
victor rask 32 goals 81 points multi year 4 mill signed 2016
tanner pearson 39 goals 80 points 4 year deal 3.75 mill
anthony mantha 41 goals 81 points bridge deal 3.3 mill
JP Gageau 31 goals 76 points 3years 3.1mill
andre burakovsky 29 goals 73 points bridge deal 3 mill

and

danton heinen 25 goals and 76 points with 12 games left

you all are dreaming if you think his agent is going to sign him to a 2 mill contract. at the bottom end of these comparables he has a strong case for 3 mill on a bridge deal

throwing in comparables like bjorkstrom and kase would give him a slam dunk win at arbitration for 2.5 mill

we can argue he struggled in the first half of this year... but his agent will point out that when he gets a chance on a top line with more than 14 mins a game he was a ppg player during the stretch drive.

when I was talking about trading him months ago... last season even... I always said hes a fine player that can score. I was never surprised he would put up points. I always said it was because of this next contract. I saw this coming as far back as last season. but its here now. deal with it

Seeing as he hasn’t signed and we don’t know the actual number yet, it’s probably a bit premature for you to be taking victory laps

I mean you predicted that a rookie in the 2nd year of his ELC might make a bit of money on his second contract.

Shocking and Nostradamus like I must say.

I have to ask...how have the deals for Bjugstad, Rask, Mantha, Pageau, and Burakovsky played out?

I think that Heinen probably gets a bridge deal in the $2.75m range for two years. By the time he’s up again in 2021-22, Krejci, Backes, Chara, and possibly Krug will be off the books. Also, at that point, the B’s will have a much better idea if he’s a legit Top 6 guy and deserving of a raise or a 3rd line player that will only get so much.

If teams traded every young player that was due for a raise because they were good and putting up points (as you suggested doing “months ago”), they would not be very good.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

i can't think of anything more boring than speculating on the next contract of a 23 year old 35-45 point middle 6 forward.

i mean really, who cares? it's gonna be somewhere between 2 and 4 million and almost certainly less than 5 years. beyond that it's not worth trying to get more specific because there are just so many variables that we as fans aren't privy too.

speculating on a star player like pastrnak is interesting because those are the types of deals that can change the course of a franchise. whether Heinen gets 2 million or 3 million is such an insignificant difference that I can't imagine why any fan of the sport would care.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

i can't think of anything more boring than speculating on the next contract of a 23 year old 35-45 point middle 6 forward.

i mean really, who cares? it's gonna be somewhere between 2 and 4 million and almost certainly less than 5 years. beyond that it's not worth trying to get more specific because there are just so many variables that we as fans aren't privy too.

speculating on a star player like pastrnak is interesting because those are the types of deals that can change the course of a franchise. whether Heinen gets 2 million or 3 million is such an insignificant difference that I can't imagine why any fan of the sport would care.

if you care enough... you can care about anything I suppose
and if you dont I wonder why it would be worth commenting on?

I got a lot of caring to go around and cap management actually is a thing and it might be more important then some realize. when we are wanting good players to come here... or wanting to keep good players... cap room is important.

luckily, the numbers suggest to me we can actually keep Heinen without having to off-load backes. I never thought that would be possible but rumors are the cap is going up and that could make this work {still likely have to move kevan miller and definitely need a huge paycut for chara though}

 

[bruins repeat time]

Love this guy's play of late no matter who his linemates have been . I think he has turned the corner where being scratched or on the bubble is a thing of the past . He does a lot well and has added a lot of creativity in the O zone .

 

[duffy]

That's right!

Can't be Wheeler cause he doesn't go offside on every rush!

 

[DKH]

Reading posts from three months ago pretty much tells you all you need to know

Glorydaze with the KO on a dozen posters

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Reading posts from three months ago pretty much tells you all you need to know

Glorydaze with the KO on a dozen posters

I kid. I have been wrong about more guys than I have been right about.

I just wish people would do two things more:

1) Watch what a player does on the ice and away from the puck...and don’t always equate points to success.

2) Remember what it was like to be 20-23 and try to have a little more patience with the development of these young players.

 

[TP]

Player Discussion - Danton Heinen IV