Player Discussion Danton Heinen III

[NDiesel]

I was too and really felt entirely opposite.

My friend said to me at one point something like;

I'm not expecting anything good to happen when Heinen's out there anymore...I just hope nothing really bad happens.

Well that's a terrible take by your "friend". If there is one thing Heinen does when he isn't scoring, it is not making boneheaded plays. He's one of 5 forwards who have a plus rating.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

What's lazy is simply assuming a guy is doing things he's not because he's not doing anything productive, just because you like him or because he did it for a few months in 2018.

I don't need facewashes....I'd just like to see actual effort, maybe mix in some production for a change.

9 points in 36 games!

Nine.

Defending this guy is beyond absurd at this point.

In that same span, Lucic, who is by all accounts --- useless, done, a has been, finished, etc. has 8 points and for the year one less point than Heinen.

The ever-useless Ryan Reaves has 11.

Perennial all-star Frank Vatrano has 22, otherwise known as the same amount of points Heinen is projected to have in this entire season.

Heinen: 2nd year in the NHL, $873k

Lucic: 12th year NHL, $6m (ouch)

Reaves: 9th year NHL, $2.78m

Vatrano: 4th year NHL, $925k

Great comparisons on the first two guys btw. Vatrano is closer, but he has twice the NHL experience, and he gets to play every game with Barkov and Dadonov. I’m sure that has nothing to do with his goal total though

The effort thing is such a joke. It looks to me like the effort is there, even if the results aren’t. You must be so much more astute than I am at picking up at the subtle signals he’s giving off.

I don’t assume anything with Heinen. I actually watch him, and have gone back in more than one game to disprove assumptions made by other posters. So, yeah, I’m lazy when it comes to analyzing Heinen.

 

[sarge88]

Heinen: 2nd year in the NHL, $873k

Lucic: 12th year NHL, $6m (ouch)

Reaves: 9th year NHL, $2.78m

Vatrano: 4th year NHL, $925k

Great comparisons on the first two guys btw. Vatrano is closer, but he has twice the NHL experience, and he gets to play every game with Barkov and Dadonov. I’m sure that has nothing to do with his goal total though

The effort thing is such a joke. It looks to me like the effort is there, even if the results aren’t. You must be so much more astute than I am at picking up at the subtle signals he’s giving off.

I don’t assume anything with Heinen. I actually watch him, and have gone back in more than one game to disprove assumptions made by other posters. So, yeah, I’m lazy when it comes to analyzing Heinen.

I didn't know we were doing a cost benefit analysis.

I just thought that I'd take a look at the production of a few guys....one who sucks and is done, another who many feel is a useless, one dimensional player and another who most didn't regret seeing leave here and compare their production over 40% of the season with Teflon Dan.

My bad.

I guess, like you with knowing that players don't get intimidated by tough opponents...I've just got a sixth sense for reading effort.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Well that's a terrible take by your "friend". If there is one thing Heinen does when he isn't scoring, it is not making boneheaded plays. He's one of 5 forwards who have a plus rating.

People see what they want to see.

I can go back, look at the video, point out the exact time of the play and contradict what a poster says, and they still claimed it happened.

There was a play where his linemates were changing and he went into the zone 1 on 4, he ragged the puck for a few seconds, then attempted to slide it back to Moore, who fell back instead of coming into the zone, and then stumbled, so the pass didn’t connect.

I’m sure the Heinen is lazy crowd counted that as a bad play, even though it really wasn’t and Heinen was trying to make something out of nothing.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I didn't know we were doing a cost benefit analysis.

I just thought that I'd take a look at the production of a few guys....one who sucks and is done, another who many feel is a useless, one dimensional player and another who most didn't regret seeing leave here and compare their production over 40% of the season with Teflon Dan.

My bad.

I guess, like you with knowing that players don't get intimidated by tough opponents...I've just got a sixth sense for reading effort.

It’s a gift.

The primary difference between the two of us is that when I say something, I try to back it up with events that actually happened...you know like when there are a bunch of fighters on a team and Matt Cooke still ends Savard’s career...rather than gut feelings and sixth senses like yourself

 

[sarge88]

Well that's a terrible take by your "friend". If there is one thing Heinen does when he isn't scoring, it is not making boneheaded plays. He's one of 5 forwards who have a plus rating.

I watched last night...hoping he'd change my mind...my daughter loves the guy and I feel bad when I'm watching the games and find myself cursing him out....but again, I just see nothing.

I mean, the best thing I can say about him is that he's usually not a disaster -- meaning -- he's just good enough defensively that he's usually not the cause of a goal against. Typically doesn't help the team score....but usually isn't the direct cause of a GA.

As for +/- I don't hate the stat at all, but find it to be more useful in the extremes.

 

[sarge88]

It’s a gift.

The primary difference between the two of us is that when I say something, I try to back it up with events that actually happened...you know like when there are a bunch of fighters on a team and Matt Cooke still ends Savard’s career...rather than gut feelings and sixth senses like yourself

You're right...I've never seen Heinen not hustle, get overmatched on the wall, lose puck battles or score at a rate that a HS defenseman on a bad team does for a 40 game stretch.

Just stop.

You're delusional perception of the kid is just silly.

He's terrible right now. It's ok. It doesn't make him a bad person and he may even have a career past this year...maybe he'll even become a legitimate 3rd liner.

Right now he isn't.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I saw turnovers, losing puck battles and failure to score into an empty net that most 10 year olds could have done.

Go back and show me the turnovers and lost puck battles.

Seriously, they aren’t there.

I already pointed out last night there was a play in the first period where he tried to chip a puck out of the zone on a puck up the boards and the pinching Dman blocked it. Other than that, there were no bad plays and glaring turnovers.

It’s regrettable that Heinen was unable to corral that pass from Krejci, but it was rolling. They showed a good angle of it on NHL on the Fly. I have coached a lot of 10 year olds, not too many catch that pass.

 

[World of Wardlow]

Maybe it's a sophomore slump, but f*** has Heinen declined this season.

 

[Sheppy]

I just hope that he's moved so we can stop having arguments about him.

I don't think Heinen is crucial to the backbone of this team, honestly. Send him in a package, get someone in return that's better.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

You're right...I've never seen Heinen not hustle, get overmatched on the wall, lose puck battles or score at a rate that a HS defenseman on a bad team does for a 40 game stretch.

Just stop.

You're delusional perception of the kid is just silly.

He's terrible right now. It's ok. It doesn't make him a bad person and he may even have a career past this year...maybe he'll even become a legitimate 3rd liner.

Right now he isn't.

I keep forgetting that my perception is delusional and your perception, the one where he is soft and doesn’t give any effort, is the real one.

Listen to yourself.

Are you telling me that an NHL coach whose job depends on the player’s performance and sees the kid in practice and games every day is allowing the type of lack of effort you are talking about?

But I’m delusional.

 

[sarge88]

I keep forgetting that my perception is delusional and your perception, the one where he is soft and doesn’t give any effort, is the real one.

Listen to yourself.

Are you telling me that an NHL coach whose job depends on the player’s performance and sees the kid in practice and games every day is allowing the type of lack of effort you are talking about?

But I’m delusional.

I'm saying that he's giving nowhere near the effort that you're assigning to him.

The fact that he's playing at all speaks more to where this team is than who he is.

Coaches make decisions that we don't agree with all the time -- yourself included.

Maybe his crush on Heinen is bigger than yours? Who knows?

Plus...you told me many times before, specifically when coaches and players assign legitimacy to the theory that toughness is a deterrent, that they don't always know what they're talking about.

So I guess we're all left to our own devices.

You'll argue that the coaches and players who say toughness is a deterrent to cheap shots and is a useful part of the game are wrong.

I'll argue that Cassidy is wrong in giving Heinen so many minutes.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I'm saying that he's giving nowhere near the effort that you're assigning to him.

The fact that he's playing at all speaks more to where this team is than who he is.

Coaches make decisions that we don't agree with all the time -- yourself included.

Maybe his crush on Heinen is bigger than yours? Who knows?

Plus...you told me many times before, specifically when coaches and players assign legitimacy to the theory that toughness is a deterrent, that they don't always know what they're talking about.

So I guess we're all left to our own devices.

You'll argue that the coaches and player who say toughness is a deterrent to cheap shots and is a useful part of the game are wrong.

I'll argue that Cassidy is wrong in giving Heinen so many minutes.

Actually, that’s not what you have been saying. I have never once brought up his effort until you questioned it.

“I’d just like to see some actual effort”

“Saw nothing but turnovers and laziness until that point”

Who said those things?


So many minutes? Do you even know how many minutes he gets?

Without even looking, I can tell you it was most likely 11th for the F’s with only Frederic having less. Last night Backes may have had less time because the B’s only got one PP and Heinen got about 30 seconds on the PK.

 

[sarge88]

Actually, that’s not what you have been saying. I have never once brought up his effort until you questioned it.

“I’d just like to see some actual effort”

“Saw nothing but turnovers and laziness until that point”

Who said those things?


So many minutes? Do you even know how many minutes he gets?

Without even looking, I can tell you it was most likely 11th for the F’s with only Frederic having less. Last night Backes may have had less time because the B’s only got one PP and Heinen got about 30 seconds on the PK.

Actually Backes and Frederic had less toi...Kuraly and Wagner a bit more.

For me anything more than 0 is too many for Heinen at this point. I'd have him in the press box for a couple of weeks right now.

And when I say the things you've quoted above and you reply with:

"I keep forgetting that my perception is delusional and your perception, the one where he is soft and doesn’t give any effort, is the real one."

That tells me that you feel that he is giving good effort and isn't turning the puck over and playing soft and lazy.

Which I disagree with.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Actually Backes and Frederic had less toi...Kuraly and Wagner a bit more.

For me anything more than 0 is too many for Heinen at this point. I'd have him in the press box for a couple of weeks right now.

And when I say the things you've quoted above and you reply with:

"I keep forgetting that my perception is delusional and your perception, the one where he is soft and doesn’t give any effort, is the real one."

That tells me that you feel that he is giving good effort and isn't turning the puck over and playing soft and lazy.

Which I disagree with.

Great, so you confirmed what I guessed, that Heinen was 11th or possibly 10th last night because Backes had little to no PP time?

Thanks, that’s what I figured.

What you highlighted was my response to your EARLIER posts...so, again, you were the one who brought up his laziness and lack of effort and I was defending it.

 

[sarge88]

That’s why hockey is my third sport I don’t know what I’m watching

It's my 6th....but only because I separate soccer into indoor and outdoor, as the games are very different....it would be 8th, if I further separated it into men's and women's.

 

[BruinsBtn]

I feel for this guy. He was playing with so much confidence last year and it had just looked like it was starting to come back. Missing that empty net couldn't have helped. He looked like he needed a hug on the bench.

 

[sarge88]

Great, so you confirmed what I guessed, that Heinen was 11th or possibly 10th last night because Backes had little to no PP time?

Thanks, that’s what I figured.

What you highlighted was my response to your EARLIER posts...so, again, you were the one who brought up his laziness and lack of effort and I was defending it.

I never said I didn't bring up his effort. I think it's lacking and nothing I saw last night changed my mind.

I watched him closely last night -- did he do a couple of good things? Sure. Not enough to justify being in the lineup...but he wasn't a disaster.

But, how many guys in the NHL can go an entire game without doing something good?

Where we differ is that I'd make him the 13 or 14th forward right now and only use him if someone gets hurt, where you seem to have no problem watching him produce nothing game in and game out and then try to justify it because he stood in the right spot or was the first guy in on the forecheck.

Big deal. He's a forward who is going 3-5 games between points right now and has been for months.

Sit him down.. give someone else a chance and see what happens.

 

[SPLBRUIN]

Go back and show me the turnovers and lost puck battles.

Seriously, they aren’t there.

I already pointed out last night there was a play in the first period where he tried to chip a puck out of the zone on a puck up the boards and the pinching Dman blocked it. Other than that, there were no bad plays and glaring turnovers.

It’s regrettable that Heinen was unable to corral that pass from Krejci, but it was rolling. They showed a good angle of it on NHL on the Fly. I have coached a lot of 10 year olds, not too many catch that pass.

They are there every game, lack of strength is very obvious as is his lack of foot speed. The only way a guy like this can survive is with guile, but it's not enough without a set of good hands which it appears he hasn't got.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

They are there every game, lack of strength is very obvious as is his lack of foot speed. The only way a guy like this can survive is with guile, but it's not enough without a set of good hands which it appears he hasn't got.

I’m glad you were so specific with the examples.

I do agree that Heinen should work on his quickness and functional strength in the offseason.

 

[The don godfather]

Did you guys see danton face on the bench after he missed golden opportunity . He looked like a deer in the headlights . He can't buy one. I think he topped out as a 47 point winger.

 

[Sheppy]

Did you guys see danton face on the bench after he missed golden opportunity . He looked like a deer in the headlights . He can't buy one. I think he topped out as a 47 point winger.

If Danton Heinen has 25-30 points by the end of the year I'll be surprised.

 

[NDiesel]

They are there every game, lack of strength is very obvious as is his lack of foot speed. The only way a guy like this can survive is with guile, but it's not enough without a set of good hands which it appears he hasn't got.

You actually think he doesn't have good hands? Man some pretty poor takes in this thread. You can point out what you don't like about the guy without making up things that are flat out untrue.

 

[The don godfather]

You actually think he doesn't have good hands? Man some pretty poor takes in this thread. You can point out what you don't like about the guy without making up things that are flat out untrue.

He's terrible dump him for a third round pick and close the book.

 

[Marcobruin]

Go back and show me the turnovers and lost puck battles.

Seriously, they aren’t there.

I already pointed out last night there was a play in the first period where he tried to chip a puck out of the zone on a puck up the boards and the pinching Dman blocked it. Other than that, there were no bad plays and glaring turnovers.

It’s regrettable that Heinen was unable to corral that pass from Krejci, but it was rolling. They showed a good angle of it on NHL on the Fly. I have coached a lot of 10 year olds, not too many catch that pass.

Umm.let me understand..so if most of your ten year olds dont catch that pass then why expect Heinen? Who just happens to be an nhler.Yet some of your ten yr old player can catch but heinen doesnt