Daniel Sprong Containment Thread Part 3 | Mod Warning Post #1

[Honour Over Glory]

Soggy B dropping some hard biscuit knowledge.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I need to be done with this for my mental health

 

[Bingo71]

I need to be done with this for my mental health

Lol. Why are you here then?

 

[Gurglesons]

Soggy B dropping some hard biscuit knowledge.

Sprong is just a smidge off Bryan Rust’s ES point production.

Daniel Sprong on pace for 27 ES points per 81 games with a skewed sample size of 21 games when he’s been used in the top six the majority of the time.

Bryan Rust

16-17 - 38 PPG at ES pace.
17-18 - 36 PPG at ES pace
18-19 - 34 PPG at ES pace

All while bouncing from the 4th line to the 1st. And a much longer sample size.

Daniel Sprong’s actual PPG at ES this year with his time with Pitt added since you know Rust was demoted to the 4th line and 3rd line. 22.

Just a smidge off. Barely below Rust’s..

Is hard biscuit knowledge the kind that makes you constipated? Because as usual Soggy’s points are doctored bullshit.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Lol. Why are you here then?

because there was just a big reply quoting me. I was typing a response when I realized it's the same response I've typed 50 times already.

 

[Vujtek]

Well just as I pointed out yesterday that Sprong had played top-9 minutes in each of his games with the Ducks so far, yesterday for the first time he got 4th line minutes and usage. 11th in both overall TOI and ES TOI. On Saturday Sprong scored a goal and added an assist in a 3-2 win for Ducks, yesterday whole Ducks team got shut out in a 0-3 loss. So that usage from yesterday should only be a blip on the radar.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Well just as I pointed out yesterday that Sprong had played top-9 minutes in each of his games with the Ducks so far, yesterday for the first time he got 4th line minutes and usage. 11th in both overall TOI and ES TOI. On Saturday Sprong scored a goal and added an assist in a 3-2 win for Ducks, yesterday whole Ducks team got shut out in a 0-3 loss. So that usage from yesterday should only be a blip on the radar.

I still see the same things that drop him down lines in his game that would drive a coach nuts.
It's fun when he can get his shot off alot in a game but when he's not doing that coaches are gonna demand more 2-way play/helping out his linemates/keeping the cycle going. All that stuff that keeps getting him put down then up, etc.

What'll be interesting is when Perry gets back.
Essentially it'll come down to Terry vs Sprong...

 

[Vujtek]

I still see the same things that drop him down lines in his game that would drive a coach nuts.
It's fun when he can get his shot off alot in a game but when he's not doing that coaches are gonna demand more 2-way play/helping out his linemates/keeping the cycle going. All that stuff that keeps getting him put down then up, etc.

What'll be interesting is when Perry gets back.
Essentially it'll come down to Terry vs Sprong...

No doubt he still needs more consistency in his game. Both with production and with all-around play. That will come with more experience, and if it does not come then there's an issue. But for someone playing his first full NHL-season consistency issues are to be expected. He just needs to get more experience and use it to learn to be more consistent.

And yes it will be interesting to see where Sprong fits in Ducks' lineup if/when they ever get a healthy lineup. Currently they have not only Perry but also Kesler, Silfverberg, Eaves and Kase out. That's a lot of established players to be out of the lineup. Sprong needs to use this chance to impress the coaching staff and so far overall he's done a solid job there by being one of their best producers since arriving. Well see how it plays out once/if they start getting players back.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sprong has 7 ES points in 20 games with Henrique, a pace which is only a hair off of what a guy like Rust is doing with Crosby...or what Hornqvist generally puts up prior to this year.

Sprong is just a smidge off Bryan Rust’s ES point production.

Daniel Sprong on pace for 27 ES points per 81 games with a skewed sample size of 21 games when he’s been used in the top six the majority of the time.

Bryan Rust

16-17 - 38 PPG at ES pace.
17-18 - 36 PPG at ES pace
18-19 - 34 PPG at ES pace

There's nothing off about what I said. In Anaheim, Sprong is 7 points off Rust's ES pace over a full season (and just 5 points off Hornqvist's ES pace in both '16-'17 and '17-'18), and he's doing it with far lesser regular linemates than Rust (or Horny).

The idea that he isn't producing at ES doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

All while bouncing from the 4th line to the 1st. And a much longer sample size.

Rust hasn't bounced around any more than Sprong has in Anaheim, and the numbers show as much.

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

Daniel Sprong’s actual PPG at ES this year with his time with Pitt added since you know Rust was demoted to the 4th line and 3rd line. 22.

Just a smidge off. Barely below Rust’s..

If you want to include a sample size of Sprong buried in his own end for 8.5 minutes a night, and somehow equate Rust's time with Brassard to Sprong's time on the Pens 4th line, sure.

That's disingenuous and has never been part of people's argument for Sprong, but to each his own.

Is hard biscuit knowledge the kind that makes you constipated? Because as usual Soggy’s points are doctored bull****.

The facts are there for everybody to see.

 

[Gurglesons]

There's nothing off about what I said. In Anaheim, Sprong is 7 points off Rust's ES pace over a full season (and just 5 points off Hornqvist's ES pace in both '16-'17 and '17-'18), and he's doing it with far lesser regular linemates than Rust (or Horny).



Rust hasn't bounced around any more than Sprong has in Anaheim, and the numbers show as much.

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools



If you want to include a sample size of Sprong buried in his own end for 8.5 minutes a night, and somehow equate Rust's time with Brassard to Sprong's time on the Pens 4th line, sure.

That's disingenuous and has never been part of people's argument for Sprong, but to each his own.



The facts are there for everybody to see.

7 pts isn’t a hair off. That is my point. If you’re judging Sprong on a sample size I think it is pretty foolish to judge on a larger sample size. And if you’re going to say that we should be taking in consideration Rust’s large sample size his previous production should be noted where he has produced at nearly 10 more points.

 

[canadianguy77]

7 pts isn’t a hair off. That is my point. If you’re judging Sprong on a sample size I think it is pretty foolish to judge on a larger sample size. And if you’re going to say that we should be taking in consideration Rust’s large sample size his previous production should be noted where he has produced at nearly 10 more points.

He makes about 20% of the salary that Rust does. That's some pretty decent production for a guy that makes 750k.

 

[Gurglesons]

He makes about 20% of the salary that Rust does. That's some pretty decent production for a guy that makes 750k.

Not criticizing Sprong’s production in Anaheim. Just trying to explain why Soggy’s consistently skewed data just further proves how obvious his bias is.

The point was that we never had a spot for him. Soggy still grasps onto our coaching staff doing Sprong wrong when the fact is we just are simply stacked at RW with more complete players. Sucks for Sprong but he seems to be doing well in his new situation and we got a really good asset for him that has been playing in a way that makes it seem like he has the potential to be a top four d. He also didn’t get this opportunity in Anaheim.

Win win deal. For both the franchises and the players. May the Ducks be blessed with the Flying Dutchman. I honestly don’t see the need to skew data like Soggy, Sprong’s numbers are decent even with his time here. Rust is just better.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Lol. Why are you here then?

Because some outlandish shit in this thread can’t be allowed to be said without the layeth of the context smaketh down.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

This is my favorite thread. I am a noob, but this is why I love HF...

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Not criticizing Sprong’s production in Anaheim. Just trying to explain why Soggy’s consistently skewed data just further proves how obvious his bias is.

The point was that we never had a spot for him. Soggy still grasps onto our coaching staff doing Sprong wrong when the fact is we just are simply stacked at RW with more complete players. Sucks for Sprong but he seems to be doing well in his new situation and we got a really good asset for him that has been playing in a way that makes it seem like he has the potential to be a top four d. He also didn’t get this opportunity in Anaheim.

Win win deal. For both the franchises and the players. May the Ducks be blessed with the Flying Dutchman. I honestly don’t see the need to skew data like Soggy, Sprong’s numbers are decent even with his time here. Rust is just better.

Again I'll agree that the RW backlog was long for Sprong
But why didn't ANYONE in the organization play him at LW while at WBS, to see if he's even capable of position flexibility? He dominated at RW in the AHL - there was nothing else left for him to prove at that position/level
Do you know how valuable position flexibility is? Even if they ended up trading Sprong perhaps they not only get MP but a draft pick on top due to his versatility.

That's why I'm saying the organization did him wrong that's on top of the 2015 entry level year fiasco....

 

[The Old Master]

Again I'll agree that the RW backlog was long for Sprong
But why didn't ANYONE in the organization play him at LW while at WBS, to see if he's even capable of position flexibility? He dominated at RW in the AHL - there was nothing else left for him to prove at that position/level
Do you know how valuable position flexibility is? Even if they ended up trading Sprong perhaps they not only get MP but a draft pick on top due to his versatility.

That's why I'm saying the organization did him wrong that's on top of the 2015 entry level year fiasco....

there are others that could easily move over to lw. the biggest mistake (and there were many) was wasting a yr. of minors by keeping him up, knowing the coach wasn't going to play him.

 

[Shady Machine]

Again I'll agree that the RW backlog was long for Sprong
But why didn't ANYONE in the organization play him at LW while at WBS, to see if he's even capable of position flexibility? He dominated at RW in the AHL - there was nothing else left for him to prove at that position/level
Do you know how valuable position flexibility is? Even if they ended up trading Sprong perhaps they not only get MP but a draft pick on top due to his versatility.

That's why I'm saying the organization did him wrong that's on top of the 2015 entry level year fiasco....

JR jacked up the whole thing when he kept him up too long. There was a big movement to get some young players on the team and I think JR got a little too wow'ed by the raw skill and made a poor long term judgment. It took two coaches to prove it to him though.

As for why they didn't try him at LW, my guess is they were concerned that he would be even worse defensively on his off wing. Given the depth at RW in the org, it would have made sense to try, but either way, he wouldn't have been a real NHL solution this year IMO.

 

[Ryder71]

This is my favorite thread. I am a noob, but this is why I love HF...

Once you go Sprong, you can't go wrong!

I'll be be very curious to see how Sprong progresses in anaheim from here on out this season.

I to love this thread, it helps restore my hope in humanity. It really does.

 

[Shwag33]

This was multiple weeks ago, but the the national media actually mentioned pens fans specifically on Sirius's NHL channel. They basically said they were blown away that penguins fans think they gave away something special. Their rationalization was well since we haven't had a first round pick we're treating him like the second coming. 2nd round draft picks routinely turn into busts or fringe players.

 

[Shady Machine]

This was multiple weeks ago, but the the national media actually mentioned pens fans specifically on Sirius's NHL channel. They basically said they were blown away that penguins fans think they gave away something special. Their rationalization was well since we haven't had a first round pick we're treating him like the second coming. 2nd round draft picks routinely turn into busts or fringe players.

That is definitely a part of it. He was our only forward prospect worth getting excited about as a top 6er so many were outraged. Having said that, I think some exaggerate the other way, like call him a "bust of a 4th line fringe player". Kid is 21 and very talented. He could bust still, he could end up a 30+ goal guy, or he could end up solid. So many directions for this to go, but the good news is the Pens got a very respectable return for him (better than one should expect under the circumstances).

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

7 pts isn’t a hair off. That is my point. If you’re judging Sprong on a sample size I think it is pretty foolish to judge on a larger sample size.

Well, it's a subjective term. I think it qualifies, but if you feel differently there's nothing wrong with that so long as you're consistent.

How much better offensively at ES is someone who's on pace for 7 more ES points? How big would you characterize that difference? Think carefully now.

And if you’re going to say that we should be taking in consideration Rust’s large sample size his previous production should be noted where he has produced at nearly 10 more points.

We're not talking about previous years, in large part because this is Sprong's first full year.

Not criticizing Sprong’s production in Anaheim. Just trying to explain why Soggy’s consistently skewed data just further proves how obvious his bias is.

I'm still waiting for you to show which data I skewed. I'm not the one who tried to include Sprong's stretch of 8:30 a night on the 4th line into his ES projections compared to Rust's, as if that's ever been a fair representation.

 

[Shwag33]

That is definitely a part of it. He was our only forward prospect worth getting excited about as a top 6er so many were outraged. Having said that, I think some exaggerate the other way, like call him a "bust of a 4th line fringe player". Kid is 21 and very talented. He could bust still, he could end up a 30+ goal guy, or he could end up solid. So many directions for this to go, but the good news is the Pens got a very respectable return for him (better than one should expect under the circumstances).

Yeah for sure, it's too early to say. They weren't even saying he's a bust, that there's nothing shown yet to get excited over. He could go either way.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well, it's a subjective term. I think it qualifies, but if you feel differently there's nothing wrong with that so long as you're consistent.

How much better offensively at ES is someone who's on pace for 7 more ES points? How big would you characterize that difference? Think carefully now.



We're not talking about previous years, in large part because this is Sprong's first full year.



I'm still waiting for you to show which data I skewed. I'm not the one who tried to include Sprong's stretch of 8:30 a night on the 4th line into his ES projections compared to Rust's, as if that's ever been a fair representation.

Why are we not consider Rust’s previous years especially if Sprong is younger?

Seems like you want to only compare Sprong to that which is favorable to Sprong and ignore everything else.

 

[Gurglesons]

Again I'll agree that the RW backlog was long for Sprong
But why didn't ANYONE in the organization play him at LW while at WBS, to see if he's even capable of position flexibility? He dominated at RW in the AHL - there was nothing else left for him to prove at that position/level
Do you know how valuable position flexibility is? Even if they ended up trading Sprong perhaps they not only get MP but a draft pick on top due to his versatility.

That's why I'm saying the organization did him wrong that's on top of the 2015 entry level year fiasco....

I don’t know, but it seems like those being upset about it expect a hell of a lot of experimentation from a team that is very successful at developing players.

 

[Ryder71]

Why are we not consider Rust’s previous years especially if Sprong is younger?

Seems like you want to only compare Sprong to that which is favorable to Sprong and ignore everything else.

Not trying to be rude or anything but didn't you tell SB that he won the argument a few pages back?