Daniel Sprong Containment Thread Part 3 | Mod Warning Post #1

[EightyOne]

I think I've decided that you aren't so much overrating Sprong as you are vastly underrating the RW's on our team. When I say that Kessel, Rust and Horny are better than Sprong, that's in no way an insult to Sprong.

True.

Five Guys is like pretty good for a 'gourmet' fast food burger.

But Fuddruckers is better.

For actual FAST, In-N-Out beats both.

 

[Ryder71]

again, I didn't do the thing you are saying I did.

You're saying that Rust is a better 5v5 player than Sid, Geno or Phil during our cup runs, yes? But again that doesn't tell the full story, nor does it aptly or accurately measure the importance of these players. It's a skewed argument.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You're saying that Rust is a better 5v5 player than Sid, Geno or Phil during our cup runs, yes? But again that doesn't tell the full tory nor does it aptly or accurately measure the importance of these players. It's a skewed argument.

No, I'm not.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

There is a reason why JR moved Hagelin instead of Rust. Rust is someone he needs, Hagelin is who he moved to send a message to the guys he needs. If Rust wasn't important to this team, JR would have moved him and also gotten back Pearson, likely.

 

[Ryder71]

No, I'm not.

What are you saying then.

 

[Ogrezilla]

There is a reason why JR moved Hagelin instead of Rust. Rust is someone he needs, Hagelin is who he moved to send a message to the guys he needs. If Rust wasn't important to this team, JR would have moved him and also gotten back Pearson, likely.

We'd have gotten better than Pearson for Rust. No doubt about it.

 

[Ogrezilla]

What are you saying then.

That Rust is a good scorer on top of all of the other things that he does. You talk about him like he's just some heart and soul mucker, but he's not. He's really good. A rough 30 games to start the year doesn't change that.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I still miss you Hagsy.

 

[Ryder71]

There is a reason why JR moved Hagelin instead of Rust. Rust is someone he needs, Hagelin is who he moved to send a message to the guys he needs. If Rust wasn't important to this team, JR would have moved him and also gotten back Pearson, likely.

I think the contract status of each player also could be a variable to consider. Possibly age as well. Could be attributed to a lot of things actually.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think the contract status of each player also could be a variable to consider. Possibly age as well. Could be attributed to a lot of things actually.

Rust's just a more valuable player all around. Younger, cheaper, signed longer, and better at hockey.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think @Ryder71 is hungry and just needs a snickers bar.

You're not you when you're hungry.

 

[Ryder71]

That Rust is a good scorer on top of all of the other things that he does. You talk about him like he's just some heart and soul mucker, but he's not. He's really good. A rough 30 games to start the year doesn't change that.

You were showing a metric and suggesting just how effective Rust was, weren't you? In that particular metric it also suggested that Rust was better than Sid, Geno and Phil, right? Unless I'm missing something that's accurate. And my point is such numbers can misrepresent just how important and valuable a particular player is to the team.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You were showing a metric and suggesting just how effective Rust was, weren't you? In that particular metric it also suggested that Rust was better than Sid, Geno and Phil, right? Unless I'm missing something that's accurate. And my point is such numbers can misrepresent just how important and valuable a particular player is to the team.

You are expanding that one stat to mean far beyond what makes any sense, and far beyond what I was saying. He scored more ES goals than Sid, Geno, or Phil. That's what that stat means. Doesn't mean he's a better player. Doesn't mean he was more important. But it is a good indicator that he's a good scorer.

 

[Ryder71]

Rust's just a more valuable player all around. Younger, cheaper, signed longer, and better at hockey.

And you wouldn't trade him for Panarin, right? Being a UFA and all.

 

[Ogrezilla]

And you wouldn't trade him for Panarin, right? Being a UFA and all.

Correct. I wouldn't trade Rust for a rental Panarin.

 

[Ryder71]

You are expanding that one stat far beyond what makes any sense. He scored more ES goals than Sid, Geno, or Phil. That's what that stat means.

That's my point though, that number suggests Rust is better. But we all know looking at the entirety of it all, that's not true. Those numbers are at times very misleading. So when you constantly throw out 5v5 STUFF, keep that in mind.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That's my point though, that number suggests Rust is better. But we all know looking at the entirety of it all, that's not true. Those numbers are at times very misleading. So when you constantly throw out 5v5 STUFF, keep that in mind.

No it doesn't. There's more to hockey than that.

 

[Ryder71]

Correct. I wouldn't trade Rust for a rental Panarin.

A rental who's an all world wing, but sure, pass him up.

 

[Ogrezilla]

A rental who's an all world wing, but sure, pass him up.

Indeed.

 

[Ryder71]

No it doesn't. There's more to hockey than that.

Sure it does, those numbers can be manipulated and made into anything by anyone. You can have a stat that shows that player A is better than player B. And someone can have an opposing view point, and can throw out a different set of numbers back at you, that heavily favors the player they like. And it can go on in perpetuity.

I could right now tell you that if we started a metric about Sprong from his last game regarding point production, he's on pace for 164 points. And you know what, I'd be right.

 

[Ryder71]

Indeed.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

A rental who's an all world wing, but sure, pass him up.

Curious, what happens if we do that deal, then we're out in the 1st round and Panarin goes and reunites with Kane in Chicago.

We're now out a fantastic top 9 winger, lost our rental top 6 winger, and now have to fill 2 holes instead of 1.

Because as it stands, you're doing that fun little saying...

To rob Peter to pay Paul.

You're ruining our bottom 6 to fix our top 6.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sure it does, those numbers can be manipulated and made into anything by anyone. You can have a stat that shows that player A is better than player B. And someone can have an opposing view point, and can throw out a different set of numbers back at you, that heavily favors the player they like. And it can go on in perpetuity.

I could right now tell you that if we started a metric about Sprong from his last game regarding point production, he's on pace for 164 points. And you know what, I'd be right.

okay. Well I've explained to you several times why I'm focusing on 5v5 production for Sprong. I'm not using it to misrepresent anything. I'm using it because 5v5 is where he struggled to find a role on our team. So yeah, he'd help our 2nd powerplay. But is that worth playing him on our 4th line at 5v5? Because that's where he'd be if he was still here.

 

[Ryder71]

Curious, what happens if we do that deal, then we're out in the 1st round and Panarin goes and reunites with Kane in Chicago.

We're now out a fantastic top 9 winger, lost our rental top 6 winger, and now have to fill 2 holes instead of 1.

Considering Sid and Geno's age I think that'd be the least of our worries. Or we could go out and find someone in free agency. But for Panarin I'd take that shot.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

As much as I love Horny, he's probably one concussion away from considering retirement and I wouldn't fault him for that. Rust is 100% one of those guys that once he's gone, you really see how much he meant to this team.