Daniel Sprong Containment Thread Part 3 | Mod Warning Post #1

[Honour Over Glory]

Considering Sid and Geno's age I think that'd be the least of our worries. Or we could go out and find someone in free agency. But for Panarin I'd take that shot.

We went and got Derek Grant in free agency. I think you think it's easier said than done.

I also think you forget, Columbus literally wanted to bribe VGK to get Rust. Rust isn't some easily replaced depth winger.

 

[Ryder71]

okay. Well I've explained to you several times why I'm focusing on 5v5 production for Sprong. I'm not using it to misrepresent anything. I'm using it because 5v5 is where he struggled to find a role on our team.

And I'm suggesting to you that while Rust and Simon were playing with Sid and Geno, Sprong wasn't given that chance. So the argument there is uneven.

 

[Ryder71]

We went and got Derek Grant in free agency. I think you think it's easier said than done.

No, but I think guys like Rust are easier to come by than say Panarin.

 

[Ogrezilla]

And I'm suggesting to you that while Rust and Simon were playing with Sid and Geno, Sprong wasn't given that chance. So the argument there is uneven.

not uneven enough to make up the difference in production imo. And especially not uneven enough to make up the difference in production AND all of their other advantages such as versatility, board work, defense, etc etc.

 

[Ogrezilla]

No, but I think guys like Rust are easier to come by than say Panarin.

But I think keeping guys like Rust is more important than a few months of a guy like Panarin. And honestly, we have more guys like Panarin on this team than guys like Rust.

 

[Ryder71]

But I think keeping guys like Rust is more important than a few months of a guy like Panarin. And honestly, we have more guys like Panarin on this team than guys like Rust.

Panarin has a mad skillset but I don't necessarily believe he's like anyone we currently have. Who's he like exactly?

 

[Ryder71]

not uneven enough to make up the difference in production imo. And especially not uneven enough to make up the difference in production AND all of their other advantages such as versatility, board work, defense, etc etc.

That becomes a subjective debate so here we are again.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And I'm suggesting to you that while Rust and Simon were playing with Sid and Geno, Sprong wasn't given that chance. So the argument there is uneven.

Sprong isn't even half the player those two are defensively and Sullivan likes guys that have that dimension to their game, if not, at least Kessel good offensively. Sprong could be that, but he also needed to be in the AHL and JR is at fault for that. My issue was the same issue you're having.

You're mad at a coach that was forced to use a player that he shouldn't have been put in the position to play when that player should have been in the AHL developing further. He's doing well in Anaheim, but unless you're ignorant to this belief, he's fueled by his situation in Pittsburgh and that's good for him to take that and turn it into what he's doing there.

Move on from it.

Read that book - The Subtle Art of Not Giving A f***.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Panarin has a mad skillset but I don't necessarily believe he's like anyone we currently have. Who's he like exactly?

He's not exactly like our guys, but he's close enough to Geno and Kessel that I stand by that point. If Panarin was signed or if Rust wasn't signed, this is a different conversation. But as is, it's an easy pass from me.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That becomes a subjective debate so here we are again.

sure. But look at it this way. Let's say everything worked out with Sprong. He's looking great at RW. Then what? We're still trading a good RW because we still have more RW's than make sense and we still need help at D. So instead of trading a young RW for a young D, we would have maybe traded an established RW for an established D. But best case scenario, it leaves us in different version of the same situation.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No, but I think guys like Rust are easier to come by than say Panarin.

You have this notion that CBJ wants Rust for Panarin.

If anything, I can see why they want Brassard and I could also see why they would covet a guy like Jarry a ton as well (Bobs is gone, they won't get a #1 back for him, their prospects and Korpi also suck at potential #1 status). So this notion that "Would you..." in regards to Rust and Panarin is this weird thing about what someone said in regards to Rust's value to this team (valid stuff might I add) vs what Panarin could do for us and how it'd take 1 to get the other.

Because what if all it took was Jarry, Brassard, 2nd for Panarin?

 

[Ryder71]

Sprong isn't even half the player those two are defensively and Sullivan likes guys that have that dimension to their game, if not, at least Kessel good offensively. Sprong could be that, but he also needed to be in the AHL and JR is at fault for that. My issue was the same issue you're having.

You're mad at a coach that was forced to use a player that he shouldn't have been put in the position to play when that player should have been in the AHL developing further. He's doing well in Anaheim, but unless you're ignorant to this belief, he's fueled by his situation in Pittsburgh and that's good for him to take that and turn it into what he's doing there.

Move on from it.

Read that book - The Subtle Art of Not Giving A ****.

Can't move on, this is a thread devoted to dear Daniel. I must not relent in my pursuit!

And yes Sullys usage of him was bad, really awful. Moving on from that might be too much for me to handle quite actually. I'm bereft, I feel grief, displeasure, contempt and hatred. But most importantly I hate to read books. So please don't ask me to do that, that heightens my angst all the more. The world is indeed a cold and lonely place!

 

[Ryder71]

You have this notion that CBJ wants Rust for Panarin.

If anything, I can see why they want Brassard and I could also see why they would covet a guy like Jarry a ton as well (Bobs is gone, they won't get a #1 back for him, their prospects and Korpi also suck at potential #1 status). So this notion that "Would you..." in regards to Rust and Panarin is this weird thing about what someone said in regards to Rust's value to this team (valid stuff might I add) vs what Panarin could do for us and how it'd take 1 to get the other.

Because what if all it took was Jarry, Brassard, 2nd for Panarin?

No, what happened was someone brought up Rust for Panarin, and they stated they wouldn't make that deal. That's the only reason I mentioned it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Can't move on, this is a thread devoted to dear Daniel. I must not relent in my pursuit!

And yes Sullys usage of him was bad, really awful. Moving on from that might be too much for me to handle quite actually. I'm bereft, I feel grief, displeasure, contempt and hatred. But most importantly I hate to read books. So please don't ask me to do that, that heightens my angst all the more. The world is indeed a cold and lonely place!

You sound like someone that listens to My Chemical Romance.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No, what happened was someone brought up Rust for Panarin, and they stated they wouldn't make that deal. That's the only reason I mentioned it.

Yeah, but you can't be mad at someone else's reasons why. That's like someone getting mad at you for choosing a beer they didn't like, but you liked.

Which is 100% the whole point in your anger.

 

[Ryder71]

Yeah, but you can't be mad at someone else's reasons why. That's like someone getting mad at you for choosing a beer they didn't like, but you liked.

Which is 100% the whole point in your anger.

Not anger, shock. I thought I was taking crazy pills!

As far as Sprong goes, The Duck fans seem happy with him and his production is solid relatively speaking.

edit: to the board members who read the last few pages, sorry for the bizarre posts, it's 3am here, I must be lonely!

 

[froods]

Sprong has four 5v5 goals since joining the Ducks. Only Kase (8 goals) has more in same time period.

Sprong has 0.97 goals/60 on 5v5 since joining the Ducks. You know who else has that exact same number in the same time period? Phil Kessel for Penguins.

Lot of nitpicking on Sprong's 5v5 production here but seems to me he's more than carrying his weight on a struggling team, after still getting used to a new team/system/city after a mid-season trade while also still just playing his first full NHL-season.



What exactly is this based on? Since joining the Ducks Sprong's TOI has never dipped below 12 minutes in a game. He's consistently getting around 14-15 minutes per game on ice time. His 5v5 TOI/game is 12:19 which is more than it is for Kesler and Silfverberg. Overall that's 8th highest amongst Ducks forwards (really 7th highest since one of the players ahead him is Åberg who they traded away and other one is Shore who they traded for, so both don't really count simultaneously).

He has put on the 4th line multiple times, including Thursday night.

 

[Fordy]

He has put on the 4th line multiple times, including Thursday night.

which only makes his numbers look better?

 

[Vujtek]

He has put on the 4th line multiple times, including Thursday night.

He might have played with so called 4th line (really the quality of players between their 3rd and 4th line is about equal) but Sprong still got top-9 minutes amongst Ducks forwards, both overall and just on ES, that night. His usage remained consistent throughout the game, even when they protected 3-0 lead after 1st period.

In each game Sprong has played with the Ducks, both his overall TOI and his ES TOI, have been amongst top-9 for Ducks forwards. He's never dipped to below top-9 usage in either those TOI stats. In few games he's broken into 3rd spot in one or both those stats but overall he's consistently gotten what you can call 2nd/3rd line usage. On average he's mostly gotten 3rd line usage I'd say. And that's the optimal usage for Sprong at this point in his career. Ducks are perfectly utilizing him, putting him in a position to succeed and develop. That kind of usage is how many here wanted to see him used in Pittsburgh as well.

 

[Coach Travis]

I’ll can’t see myself ever coming around to feeling okay about how we managed Sprong. There’s no doubt in my mind that he’ll score 30 in a season at least once. But circumstances what they were, GMJR got a pretty good player in return in Pettersson and someone who filled a much bigger need. Actually Pettersson is a sneakily good offensive defenceman. I wouldn’t pidgeon hole him as not being able to play in the top 4 just yet.

 

[Coach Travis]

Sure... unless he brought nothing other than his offense, and was terrible defensively and at pretty much almost every other aspect of the game. I get it that the kid is still a rookie/project. But when you're that bad at everything else other than 'offense' and the offense you do provide A) doesn't out score the other team when you're on the ice and B) isn't all that great to begin with... it wouldn't take all that long to dull the excitement. Especially when you have a larger sample size then just 15 games.

Despite all the criticism I've directed his way, I honestly hope he can prove me wrong and have a good NHL career. I just don't think it's all that likely unless he makes some pretty big changes to how he plays.

This is a late, late reply but I’ve been in Punta Cana.

From the games I’ve watched, Sprong has been able to show some real flair for dramatic defensive plays. I think with the Pens, where he was bridled, he wound up with his feet planted trying to play D. With the Ducks he’s allowed to jump the gun offensively which as a result allows him to play D by back checking which makes better use of his speed and doesn’t depend as much on one-on-ones and positioning. I’ve really enjoyed catching the odd Ducks game. Sprong disappears at times but when things are going his way he’s pretty dynamic.

 

[froods]

He might have played with so called 4th line (really the quality of players between their 3rd and 4th line is about equal).

Rowney and Gibbons are so called fourth liners? Lol

 

[Vujtek]

Rowney and Gibbons are so called fourth liners? Lol

Yes, and their other line was centered by Derek Grant with two rookies on his wing. As I said, their two bottom-6 lines are basically interchangeable. You can call Sprong's line the 4th line but as I pointed out, he still got top-9 minutes in that game.

Also in just that one game Sprong played over a minute with both Getzlaf and Henrique as his centers. Do you know how much time he got with Malkin here this season? Two minutes. So in that game you say he played on 4th line, he still got as much time with their top-6 centers as he played with Malkin here in the first two months of the season.

So even if you want to say Sprong played on 4th line in that game, there's a massive difference in usage when he played on 4th line in Pittsburgh.

 

[Jacob]

Rowney and Gibbons are so called fourth liners? Lol

Their third line was centered by Derek Grant.

Ice-time wise Sprong had more time than 4 other forwards as I recall.

Just because the Ducks twitter feed showed it as the 4th line doesn’t mean it was.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

so you'd be cool with playing him on the 4th line and the 2nd PP? Because that's what his play basically dictates.

No, I wouldn't, and no, it doesn't.

Sprong has 7 ES points in 20 games with Henrique, a pace which is only a hair off of what a guy like Rust is doing with Crosby...or what Hornqvist generally puts up prior to this year. And as I've said time and again and now seems to be getting actively ignored, Sprong could have been in the top 9 for a good 80% of our games this season without displacing a single useful top 9 player. The idea that he had to be on the 4th line at ES is a false pretense.

His powerplay points should have absolutely no impact on where he plays at 5v5.

His powerplay points are a factor in determining how much value he adds to whatever team he's playing for. The parsing of Sprong's points to ES/PP is moot, because he's not getting those PP points on account of opportunity in Anaheim that he couldn't have gotten in Pittsburgh.

Sure. So play him exactly how we were; 4th liner with PP2 time.

He didn't have to play on the 4th line here and he was misused (again, for no good reason) on our PP2, as his subsequent proper usage and production has clearly shown.

Do you not see that issue of too many RW's, so we traded a RW?

Except we could have played some on LW all along, as we're doing right now. What a novel idea.

Maybe Sullivan will finally convert the right RW to LW one of these games. That he's pulling it with Kessel instead of Rust is downright comical.